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Old 08-30-2010, 09:08 PM   #221
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How was that again, that we could curtail misconduct in the future?
1. not to let you have passwords to the DW email account.

2. Then have bogus emails sent to DW email.

3. remind anyone emailing you that you will republish content of their private emails.

Now that Leo is openly attacking his friends and Metro unit in public that is very telling of the real Leo.

Leo will never get back in at the end of his two year sentence, because he can't change the way he strikes out with hatred of the club, it's painful.

He will not pay a lawyer to bring a suit.


Leo now that he declined reinstatement will never have an opportunity to do anything other than post on a forum, it's ashame he could have been an asset


Oh there was fact update on DW

Your rhetoric needs to stop you know Howie is away from internet access
so you pull this under handed attack when you know he can't respond.


.

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Old 08-30-2010, 09:47 PM   #222
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2. Then have bogus emails sent to DW email.
Ah, you might want to check that one out before you summarily dismiss whatever that was all about, because it sure as heck wasn't me. My words are just that, MY words, and I own up to them proudly. I have no need for pretense. Is that your best shot then? Now how about we get some answers about the IBT meetings and the committees that were formed on July 5th and who was appointed when by whom? We are just trying to get a clear cut idea of what's what these days in current events.

Howie will be back.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:55 AM   #223
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I'm not going tit for tat with you, believe what you will.

Are you sure about Tim's sig?

Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, VAC Webmaster, TAC NV-2 & NV-3.
2010 Mouse count:
Buttercup -

He agreed with the committee so much so, the VAC Pres nominated him for the 5th seat. He believed in the opportunity to help the club.

He understood the value, you just don't get it.

All you want to do is scorch the earth.

Move on it's over as far as your reinstatement, you had your chances and declined.


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Old 08-31-2010, 07:06 AM   #224
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All in a days work.

I'd say the IBT/EC7 have been working for "their" WBCCI. Let's look at the work they've done since June.

1. Form another commitee without anyone knowing about.

2. Get leaders of the group/Unit that was going to sue the IBT/EC7 in an effort to right the wrongs of thier mis-management to lay down their arms.

3. Get the leaders of the opposing group to think the IBT/EC7 idea is the best way to go and even get some of the leaders of that opposing group to join the IBT/EC7 side.

4. Expell the loudest opposing voice and get him thrown in front of the bus.

5. Make the leader of the opposing group (that you got on board with the IBT/EC7 new commitee group) the "fall guy" for the opposing group to the point where the rest of the members of the opposing group will go after him and never trust him again while taking the heat off the IBT/EC7 and some others.

6. Get people demanding their money back they put up for the original law-suit.

7. Make it to where members of the WBCCI will ever trust a group that say's they are going to sue the IBT/EC7 in the future for anything, getting rid of the chance they will ever have to deal with this type of thing again.

8. Keep the WBCCI members that got out a couple of years ago and helped kill the MOHO issue focused on the law-suit issue, get them yelling and screaming at each other while the IBT/EC7 starts putting in place what needs to be done to get other MOHO's in the club.

9. Start packing all your gear and head for Travelers Rest in Fl to sit back and laugh your a** off at the DW-Save Wally effort as you slap each other on the back for a job well done.

10. Start putting paperwork in place to bring the MOHO up at mid-winter IBT and make sure it passes next July.



In the past, I often thought the people in the IBT/EC7 were not the smartest group for the way they ran the club. I can see now, they are smart as h*ll, for they just killed, gutted and ate the very opposing voices that were holding their feet to the fire.


Hope to see you guys at the "White Tux" party and travel on the members of the WBCCI's nickel in the future as I drive down the road in my new THOR motorhome.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:33 AM   #225
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Paul, what if your wrong?

What happened in the past is the past.

The current and up coming IP's insist they want to make this happen.

Paul what you (and or the other naysayers) never did was come up with better mouse trap.

Metro had the courage to take the lead and work with the club one final time.

If these bylaws don't fly I believe there will be a mass exodus.

Everyone waited years for change, now we'll have an indication of where this is headed at the Mid-winters.

So rather than trash talk which will have no positive effect, wait 5 months to see how it shakes out.

What at this point to have to lose?


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Old 08-31-2010, 07:53 AM   #226
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The current and up coming IP's insist they want to make this happen.

Someone help me out here. If it is true that the IP wants to be an agent of change and conciliation, then why designate one seat on what seems to be an obscure committee to facilitate the change? For that matter why not make official announcement and seek input from the disaffected portion of the membership- or maybe a statement of what changes the WBCCI should be contemplating? Why not have a Task Force with the express purpose of bringing actionable changes to the membership at the 2011 International? If both sides are committed to 'making this happen' why isn't all this happening? I hate to be a nay-sayer, and I really do want to see changes, on the other hand if change is in the air, why is it impossible to detect from the WBCCI side? Color me jaded.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:45 AM   #227
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They have the power

Actually Bob,

I did submit a better mouse trap a few years ago to everyone that was on the IBT/EC7 down to the 2nd VP level within each Region at that time (2007), of which, many of those members are currently serving within the different levels of the IBT/EC7 today and the different committees and the email sent to everyone of them could be pulled out at anytime, the changes made before the mid-winter IBT “AND” in time for the WBCCI membership drive.

All the changes that need to be made can be done to the By-Laws, by the IBT/EC7 without any committee, membership vote, etc… “ONLY” a constitution change needs the full vote of the WBCCI in order to make a change to it. The “By-Laws” can be changed by the IBT/EC7 at “anytime” under their existing power. They know what needs to be done many of the members have been screaming for it for over 5 years.

The IBT/EC7 could make the changes to the By-Laws (since they have that power) before the winter IBT if they wanted too or show the new By-Laws on the WBCCI website (for everyone that is not allowed to logon to the forums site) or the WBCCI forums (for those that can logon and post) for feedback by middle of Nov.. Print out the new By-Laws for review at the mid-winter IBT, getting them out to the units by spring for final feed back and make changes putting them into effect at the International rally next year by the new “kindler and gentler IBT/EC7”.

All it takes is for the IBT/EC7 to wish it done and it can gets done. If they don’t it never will.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:51 AM   #228
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[QUOTE=Boondocker;889207]If it is true that the IP wants to be an agent of change and conciliation, then why designate one seat on what seems to be an obscure committee to facilitate the change?


Rodney, it is not 1 seat that's wants change all 5 do.

Quote:
For that matter why not make official announcement and seek input from the disaffected portion of the membership- or maybe a statement of what changes the WBCCI should be contemplating? Why not have a Task Force with the express purpose of bringing actionable changes to the membership at the 2011 International?
Rodney, it is not 1 seat that's wants change all 5 are.

I reached out to this entire community for their input, it quickly turned toxic. see this thread

Its hard to have meaningful input in that environment, so I asked for PM's or email Defendwally@gmail.com.

I have received 8 solid well thought out suggestions, to date

This committee is the closest thing you'll see to a task force.

We aren't waiting until the international in June it will be presented at the Jan midwinter.



.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:57 AM   #229
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Actually Bob,
All the changes that need to be made can be done to the By-Laws, by the IBT/EC7 without any committee, membership vote, etc… “ONLY” a constitution change needs the full vote of the WBCCI in order to make a change to it.
Paul if want to discuss off line fine, pm me your phone #
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:07 AM   #230
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Bob,

Five seats want change, but what does the leadership want? My reading of the report of the July 5 meeting in the latest Blue Beret did not find any information on this committee.

PMs and private emails are fine, but there are many members here who want to know what is proposed and taking the discussion offline prevents this and makes me think of cigar smoke filled rooms.

Too bad that you did not notice that most threads about the WBCCI turn toxic.

Has your access to the WBCCI forum been reinstated and have you heard from Norm Beu about it?

Bill

Quote:
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...

Rodney, it is not 1 seat that's wants change all 5 are.

I reached out to this entire community for their input, it quickly turned toxic. see this thread

Its hard to have meaningful input in that environment, so I asked for PM's or email Defendwally@gmail.com.

I have received 8 solid well thought out suggestions, to date

...
.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:24 AM   #231
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PMs and private emails are fine, but there are many members here who want to know what is proposed and taking the discussion offline prevents this and makes me think of cigar smoke filled rooms.
Bill what will happen is what ever I say Leo, Carol and the rest of their tiny peanut gallery will ruin it for everyone else.

I'll be happy to talk to you.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:29 AM   #232
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The Emperor's new clothes

Quote:
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My reading of the report of the July 5 meeting in the latest Blue Beret did not find any information on this committee.
Exactly my point. Might I suggest that the backroom dealing is a prime contributor to toxic threads. In any case, last time I checked this is not a WBCCI venue. Why hasn't the WBCCI stepped forward in an official venue and make an official announcement?

At this point Bob, all I see are the statements you are making without any sort of verification whatsoever. I don't know you and I will not speculate on your motives or aspirations. Having said that, as far as I can see there has been zero confirmation from the IBT that some reform process is underway.

Major changes should not, in my opinion, be decided in a back-room meeting and enacted at a winter meeting. There needs to be an open process that is decided on by the larger community. If insisting on this makes my commentary toxic, then call me toxic.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:58 AM   #233
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Told ya so

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Exactly my point. Might I suggest that the backroom dealing is a prime contributor to toxic threads. In any case, last time I checked this is not a WBCCI venue. Why hasn't the WBCCI stepped forward in an official venue and make an official announcement?

At this point Bob, all I see are the statements you are making without any sort of verification whatsoever. I don't know you and I will not speculate on your motives or aspirations. Having said that, as far as I can see there has been zero confirmation from the IBT that some reform process is underway.


Major changes should not, in my opinion, be decided in a back-room meeting and enacted at a winter meeting. There needs to be an open process that is decided on by the larger community. If insisting on this makes my commentary toxic, then call me toxic.

So what do I win?
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:11 PM   #234
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What a mess of it this has made for the issue of Leo's reinstatement, the defense team and now even Save Wally closing down with the last posts calling individuals out as bipolar idiots. What a shame, it all crumbled, so much time and effort and all the good went right down with the bad.

Rodney you sure had it pegged. Who would have thought it was fabrication?? Live and learn. It sure sorted out the chaff from the wheat.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:12 PM   #235
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So you didn't see the thread for suggested changes?

No back room, it can't be in your face anymore!

Open to the entire community

You know its really interesting sooo many have been complaining about this and that which wrong and need to be changed.

So based on the (limited to say the least) input to date all the complaining must be unfounded.

we have 6,000 happy members that are satisfied with the status quo.


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Old 09-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #236
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Look who just became IBT with his appointment to the Executive Committee's committee's chair. Who was that Defend Wally leader anyway??

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You know its really interesting sooo many have been complaining about this and that which wrong and need to be changed.

So based on the (limited to say the least) input to date all the complaining must be unfounded.

we have 6,000 happy members that are satisfied with the status quo.

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Old 09-17-2010, 02:33 PM   #237
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we have 6,000 happy members that are satisfied with the status quo.

.
I really don't think there are 6000 happy members. There is a large silent majority who pay no attention to these things,However there is also a fair number who don't see another committee addressing the bylaws as much of a solution. It can address some of the problems, but not all and if the first we hear of what they are doing is at midwinters things will move at the usual snails pace, if at all. ( ex. 2020 committee) If there were interim progress reports, agendas, or what have you I would feel better about the whole thing. After all, there are supposed to be all those "go to meeting" meetings going on.

I have considered putting together some ideas and sending them to Dona but feel I need to see how some other things shake out first.
None of this is going to get Leo back in, and keep him in (along with any others who may be targeted by grievances in the future)
It probably also would not address the wbcci web site mess that continues as I write this.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:39 PM   #238
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So you didn't see the thread for suggested changes?

No back room, it can't be in your face anymore!

Open to the entire community

You know its really interesting sooo many have been complaining about this and that which wrong and need to be changed.

So based on the (limited to say the least) input to date all the complaining must be unfounded.

we have 6,000 happy members that are satisfied with the status quo.


.
Surely you realize, Bob, that your own statements/actions/representations in all this mess are going to affect people's willingness to trust you to advocate for them on this committee.

I think you should step down.


Maggie
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:41 PM   #239
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It probably also would not address the wbcci web site mess that continues as I write this.
An interesting observation. The renewal form for the WDCU unit ask for individuals Airforums user name. No mention of the WBCCI forum. Is that saying something or not.

What Forum does your unit consider relevant?
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:49 PM   #240
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Surely you realize, Bob, that your own statements/actions/representations in all this mess are going to affect people's willingness to trust you to advocate for them on this committee.


Maggie
the handful of folks that you referrer to, can do nothing, or email Dona.
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