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Old 06-30-2012, 03:59 PM   #81
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So some units voted against the new const because the delegat amend was not discussed? So the whole thing was thrown out because of a procedural thing? Sounds like a set up if the powers that be new the vote would be no if no discussion took place. Please tell me I am wrong. Jim
Here's what happened.

You will recall that the Revised Constitution was brought to the delegates meeting in 2011 and then the motion to introduce it was withdrawn at the last minute by then-IP Norm Beau. You can ask him why he withdrew it. My feeling is that he had been talking to the delegates and realized it had no chance of passing. (If he had wanted it to pass the Executive Committee could have been talking it up in the Blue Beret and at region rallies all year--but they didn't.)

Then the whole thing lay in limbo for a year until the current IP put it on the agenda for this years meeting. Still no sales pitch from the EC, just put it on the ballot.

My thought going into this years delegates meeting was that there was no way it was going to get the 2/3 majority necessary for passage. That's a tall order.

What happened was that as soon as the IP introduced the amendment, a delegate moved to call the question, that is, vote on it. A motion to call the question requires a 2/3 majority to bring the matter to an immediate vote. It actually got closer to 80%, which should tell you something.

The actual vote on the revised constitution was 1425 in favor and 3429 against, or in other words, it got 29% of the vote. I don't think any number of amendments would have gotten that up to 67% of the vote.

And despite last minute exhortations that the sky would fall if it passed, I think most of the delegates simply voted what their units told them to vote. If the revised constitution had ever had a chance of passing it needed to have been sold to the units--and it wasn't.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:04 PM   #82
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I am processing the audio now. I will upload it as soon as it is done.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #83
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How many MH

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Somebody keep use us to date on this. We're buried in arrivals today, so trying to listen in is turning into a frustration exercise. We did get to listen to the 3VP voting this morning , but since then it's been pretty crazy here!

Lynn
Lynn,
One of the ladies speaking on for the MH amendment said something about all the MH's across the street. Were those SOB's that were at the rally or was she talking about Airstream MH's?
Be careful out there!
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:55 PM   #84
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I do not think there were SOB motorhomes at the rally. It does seem that some of the reasons to own a motorhome is caused by diminished physical condition and therefore the average age of motorhome owners is older and she felt that as our average age of our members continue to rise, more of the members would not be able to continue to use trailers and would be forced to buy motorhomes. Since no new Class A Airstreams are being made they would be forced to buy SOB's. The logic is flawed in the fact that Airstream make very nice smaller motorhomes which are quite good for older people. It is also flawed in that there are still quite a few newer Airstream class A motorhomes with very low mileage on them available at a greatly reduced price. It is true that motorhomes, because of their complexity and obsolescence, do not have as long a useful life as trailers. Older people in general are not up to keeping up with more complex maintenance themselves and therefore have to rely on dealers to perform that function.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:17 PM   #85
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My feeling is the Moho thing was put off because they new it would be defeated. Jim
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:55 PM   #86
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My feeling is the Moho thing was put off because they new it would be defeated. Jim
Word I got was that it likely would have passed if constitutionality questions had not been posed.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:08 PM   #87
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My feeling is the Moho thing was put off because they new it would be defeated. Jim
I think you are exactly right Jim. If they had the votes to pass, the CBL chairman would have said it was not a problem and let the voting begin. No need to send it to him.
This way, another year to get some votes.
I wish it could have been voted up or down. The people that want to stay in the club with the MH's would like to know there fate as well as those strongly opposed would like it settled as well. WBCCI will lose somebody regardless of the the vote.
Punting this to next year serves no purpose.
Not a good day for the IBT.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:05 PM   #88
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The IBT was the sponsor of the SOB motorhome amendment twice. They lost the first time and now it gets pushed off another year. It is not good for them or for the club. Jim S. (PIP) echoed Jim H. (PIP) saying it will return over and over. If the membership stays strong it will be defeated again.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:37 PM   #89
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The one good thing that can be said about today was the audio feed worked flawlessly in spite of a lousy connection on this end.

Thanks to whoever handled that one
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:52 PM   #90
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why isn't there some info here about the rally - pictures of people having fun, entertainment, etc.? Instead, I am just reading about problems - no wonder the numbers keep going down. It just sounds like a bunch of board members, etc. talking. Why would anyone look at all this site and wish they were there. Is there another site that shows something GOOD going on at the rally? We have 10-20 rigs at our unit rallies and have FUN!!
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:56 PM   #91
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You want pics and updates from the rally? There's lots of that on the WBCCI and the VAC presence on Facebook!

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Old 06-30-2012, 08:47 PM   #92
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The IBT was the sponsor of the SOB motorhome amendment twice. They lost the first time and now it gets pushed off another year. It is not good for them or for the club. Jim S. (PIP) echoed Jim H. (PIP) saying it will return over and over. If the membership stays strong it will be defeated again.
What we really need is an amendment that limits the number of times the same amendment can be rehashed. I'd like to see it at twice; if it doesn't pass after two tries, it can't come back again.

However, even if such an amendment were to come about, it would be more likely to end up as "three strikes, you're out," meaning that after the third time an amendment is defeated, it's defeated forever. But even that would eliminate the specter of the MOHO amendment coming up for a vote every year until all the people that want it have died off.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:46 AM   #93
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next meeting

The new officers/ IBT should be having another meeting near the end of the rally.
Anyone have the date and whether the audio will be streamed?

I haven't found anything on the web site about it.

Possibly it will give us some indication of where the next IP plans to take the club.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:50 AM   #94
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The meeting will be held on the 5th of July.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:59 AM   #95
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That audio will also be streamed and posted online
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:36 AM   #96
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Where does the International go from here?

The membership directory lists the international attendance on pages 20 and 21.
These are the numbers in Parenthesis.

The only rally with lower attendance that this one was the first rally in Bull Shoals in 1958.

The best attendance was in Louisville in 1976. at 4493. It has been pretty much downhill from there with only a few minor blips.

Typically the attendance has been 10% or greater of the total membership number. This years attendance is below the 10% number of aprox 5600 members.

International attendance is now down 90% since 1976 and 50% in 3 years.

I am not sure what needs to be done to fix this, probably lots of little things and then perhaps a slow climb back would begin.

My feeling is that we do need a new constitution, or at least a heavily amended old one to bring the club up to date. It seems to take a year to 2 years to get any action on an amendment.

The motor home amendment needs to be put to rest one way or the other so members can make decisions as to what to do. (buy a thor or quit the club)

I don't see either of these items being settled in the immediate future.

At this point the question really is how low can International attendance go before the rally implodes from its cost structure. It must be getting close.

Likewise how much longer can we go before the club looks for another dues increase to keep the club solvent?

Does any one see a way to stop this downhill spiral of both the rally and the club??
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:37 AM   #97
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The Delegates meeting audio files have been uploaded to the web. Enjoy
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:38 AM   #98
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The best attendance was in Louisville in 1976. at 4493. It has been pretty much downhill from there with only a few minor blips.
...

Does any one see a way to stop this downhill spiral of both the rally and the club??
The numbers themselves speak loudly and clearly. They can only be interpreted in one way: the club doesn't meet people's needs today.

I am new, so my observations have to be limited to what I know so far. What I noticed right off is that there is deep entrenchment and inflexibility built-in to the massive structure of by-laws and constitution. In short, the structure itself doesn't accommodate change easily enough, and thus strangles itself from adapting to new needs of new members. Ergo, the club is not built to change, and may simply auger into the ground.

To be very clear, my comments are not intended to disparage any persons. I love the people we meet at club events. But the "mechanics" that drive the club are at fault. Just witness the overall energy that has been applied (wasted) during this MoHo question for a couple years now. That's an example of frozen stasis.

The most viable solution to "Airstream comradery" - the actual goal - is to begin all over with a new club.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:24 AM   #99
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It's basically another IBT rally as the midwinter is. It's a "business" meeting for the officers and the invited volunteers to travel to, reconnect with friends and enjoy.

It's too bad the DenCo (aka Forest's) motion didn't get passed to give more power to the delegates. Even the delegates meeting is presided over by the EC. I would like to see that effort brought back again. It isn't the delegate system that is to blame for the state of the club. It was member apathy that led to its failure to meet the requirements to pass it. There was a number of obstructions to the process and plenty of resistance from the top that factored in heavily to the outcome as well though. That lack of concern from the units is what keeps the concentration of power and the status quo exactly where it is with leadership. The International club is an entity unto itself rather than representative or working for the benefit of a regular member. I agree with the former posts that the time spent on the moho issue year after year at the IBT's interjection despite the general membership's disapproval and vote against has deflected attention, time and energy (and money!) away from the business of improving the club for all unit members and their common experience.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:30 AM   #100
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International attendance is now down 90% since 1976 and 50% in 3 years.

I am not sure what needs to be done to fix this, probably lots of little things and then perhaps a slow climb back would begin. ...

Does any one see a way to stop this downhill spiral of both the rally and the club??
The answer is to make it fun. We attended the Madison international which was only 2 hours away. It was our first and last international. We are only 6 hours from Sedalia and we didn't even consider attending. Until the rally becomes fun and priced reasonably, we will not even consider attending another International. I do not want to be paying for "volunteers" to show up 4 weeks early on my dime.

There are a lot of other fun alternatives now - Allumanpolozza, Alumanfandago, Birthday Bash, Airfourm rallies, etc. The ways of the club are calcified and the older generation in leadership will not change. I believe that the club will bottom out with about 2,000 to 3,000 members down from the approximately 5,600 today. If SOB's are allowed in, then the decrease will be significantly faster. By the time leadership figures out that they need to change it may be too late. The leadership must first acknowledge that there is a serious problem and that if not fixed the club could go out of existence. An analogy is an alcoholic; until the alcoholic acknowledges that they are an alcoholic, they cannot begin meaningful and sustainable change. Many alcoholics never beat the disease. However, with the club I believe that the older generation in leadership just don't care about the long term survival of the club. As long as the club can survive while they are members, why change. I have accepted this and the WBCCI is not my primary avenue for Airstream fun.

As has been shown throughout the history of the world, those who don't adapt to the new environment go extinct.
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