Grievance time again

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Rude is an understatement, I can't reply to that comment as I would like to.

Thanks for taking the high road.

I'm getting another version of the 3 complaints, and will forward them to Janet or who ever to edit my original posts

I'll see if I can break the original posts into a few more, but slightly shorter, posts, and edit some of the computer *stuff* out of them.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

FORMAL GRIEVANCE
DATE: June 26, 2009

TO: Mr. Jerry Larson, President, Wally Byam Caravan Club International

RE: Grievance - filed against Leo G WBCCI # 6006, President, Unit 72 - Metro NY, Region 2


STATEMENT:
This document will outline that Leo G [6006] did willfully and knowingly assist in conducting a
campaign of intimidation and smear against my person, character, and business in a manner that constitutes gross negligence of his official WBCCI duties, dereliction of his elected WBCCl leadership level office,
and further violates nearly every item of WBCCI code of ethics.

[see attached support document "WBCCI:lnternet Realities - The Internet Building Block"]

Garvey's public behavior further demonstrates such a high level of disregard for the WBCCI organization, it's leadership and its membership as to at least partially explain the declining membership numbers and the
current overall state of the club due to exposure of members and potential members to his public communications.

FACTS:
(grammar errors corrected for easier reading)
[emphasis (bold face) has been added by me]

exhibit oj
On 06-20-2009 @ I:50 PM Leo G [6006] entered the following post on the WBCCI Forums under his moniker "65GT" :

65GT 06-20-2009 @ I :50 PM
I just wish I could say that I trusted the honesty and integrity in the way messages and threads on this forum are bandied, but I don't. Many of my past postings have been deleted, and I was told (yes hearsay) that was under the direct order of a past International President.
Regardless, we now have manipulation of postings as recent as this morning. Followed by the EC Chair chastising those members whose posts remain.

Mere members can not delete their posting here. However, non-member (fact) Moderators can do as they please (and do).
It would be pointless to upload the partial screen shot here, where it would be just as likely to be deleted near instantly, so I have tacked the partial. screen shot to SaveWally.org/forums, here:
bttp:/lsavewally.orgiforumsiindex.php/topic,1484.msgl0896.btm1#msgl0896
6006
This message was edited by 65GT on 6-20-09 @ I :59 PM
• This post clearly exhibits Leo G's well-documented, ill-intended spreading of misinformation, manipulation of facts, and outright declaration of falsehoods in his attempt to spread disharmony and ill will among WBCCI members and undermine organizational leadership authority. Garvey publicly
questions matter-of-factly and in his own words the "honesty and integrity" of the leadership based on "hearsay". Garvey goes on to publicly proclaim the falsehood that there are "non-member [fact]
moderators" who can "do as they please [and do]" on the WBCCI club forums. There are none. As is typical with the SaveWally organization members, the post is ended with a link to the SaveWally website.
[exhibit b]
On 06-20-2009 @ 6:06 AM Leo G [6006] entered the following post on the WBCCI Forums under his moniker "65GT" :

65GT 06-20-2009 @ 6:06 AM
I can't go through all of that -- I've read most/much of it already. Here's my observation of what's taken
place.
Tim says there were 44 emails going back and forth before he got the final word. During that time Tim
was giving it his all researching and digging, jointly with Charlie. It's apparent to me that's where all the
"1's" come from.
I think that's likely a whole lot of effort, and it appears to me that Tim maybe wasn't fully aware that there were just as many emails going back and forth in another direction.
It's possible that Charlie wasn't being entirely open about what was going on. Maybe that was intentional from an exploratory point of view (Big Blue does this all the time internally).
Yet, if Tim was somehow under the impression that his work and research were of real value, I can see how this all spirals out of control.
If I were in Tim's shoes, and believed that there was an alternate reality, I never would have made it to 44 emails. I would have explored and researched for a dozen or so, and then bowed out if the direction wasn't
clear, or it looked like my efforts were falling out of favor. Everybody's time and efforts are valuable. It's one thing if you're being paid for your time (???), it's quite another when all of your efforts are VOLUNTEER efforts.
Nobody wants to see their time and efforts wasted, and yet I have no idea how to summarize all of this, as °1° wasn't involved. (still counting?)
What I do know is that the discussions surrounding this new effort at the Mid-Winters was a complete abomination, and very readily revealed that our top leadership had little clue as to the real goals and purpose of the effort. It instead turned into a witch hunt - eliminate handles - full
disclosure of posters - we need to reveal and run off 'rascals', and make sure no one could infiltrate a system they don't use, and make sure no one could assume the identity of other members. Hmm... Leadership? We're still running with a cold war mentality at the top, back in the 50's, back in the
USSR!
I suspect that kind of nonsense leads to an 1800+ word Terms of Service, and that lack of trust within the membership, from a leadership viewpoint (much like leaders don't trust ANY member to cast any absent Unit's votes [what PARANOIA!]). These leadership aspects paint a much broader
picture of the fear and mistrust that revolves around our top levels of leadership. How fearful are we that we need a parliamentarian to get involved in a TOS? Same old WBCCI I've been watching since 2005. Unfortunately it sounds like the same old WBCCI members have been fleeing since 1978...
69 Ill's", 6 "we's" (after being dropped to a beta tester, how many we's could there be?), and no "US" (not when you've been cut buddy) are all appropriate. Thanks for counting...
So would you be one of those 'paid' staff that helped build it? You don't own Vintage-Airstream.com?
It's going to be awful lonely over there, but then again, maybe that's what leadership needs in order to get their heads and necks out of their shell- a forum completely devoid of members - leadership wannabees exceptions of course. There will always be those... (crickets)...
Hey, how many WBCCI leaders does it take to balance a budget and grow the membership?
Damned if anybody really knows - but if we ad another half dozen committees, maybe expand to a fourth level of leadership (the Exalted 3?), we sure could Increase the rate at which we burn through financial resources and finally get to the end of a 30 year trend line - total club dissolution•••
Hey guess what - 600+ words - you'd be about 113rd of the way to finding out exactly what you can and can't do at the brand new WBCCI forums with an EIGHTEEN HUNDRED+ WORD TERMS OF SERVICE.
•••and yet nobody understands why we're running out of members, money, and time... Good grief.
6006
This message was edited by 65GT on 6-20-09 @ 2:00 PM
• This is a clear example of Leo G's gross negligence of his WBCCI duties, dereliction and abuse of his WBCCI elected office and of his verbal assaults on WBCCI Leadership in public forum communications in an attempt to discredit, smear and undermine organizational authority. Accusations of
intentional leadership dishonesty, incompetence, "witch-hunt", "cold war", ''USSR'', leadership distrustful of membership. "paranoia", "mistrust that revolves around our top levels of leadership", U •••get their heads
and necks out of their shell", "leadership wannabees", mockery of leadership financial stewardship, etc, etc, etc.
No further comment....

(exhibit c)
On June 19,2009, 11:18:59 AM Leo G [6006] entered the following post on the SaveWally.org Forums under his moniker "65GT" :

Re: WBCCI Forums - Missing The Mark?

«Reply #7 on: June 19,2009, 11 :18:59 AM»
I'm sure Tim will have plenty, let's get one thing straight... The Sprint Cup Series is owned and operated by NASCAR -- very bad analogy Charlie.
A sponsor is merely an exclusive or shared advertiser, sometimes a promoter. You reach nascar through Nascar.com. You don't reach Nascar through Nascar.SPRINT.com...
Nobody has any objections to anything that has been done (that I'm aware of) except having that forum
hosted at any url address other than a WBCCI owned and operated url...
Thank the sponsor anyway you like Charlie. If you're looking for paid sponsors, get me a rate card. The last time someone thought they could intimidate mere members at WBCCI, they talked a big game, and then they balked when somebody actually took them up on a PAID page. A paid page that never should have been required in the first place, but then again, leadership in this club is pretty good at dismissing
the membership, aren't they?
...and don't lay this nobody volunteers crap here. We've got a Unit Guide here with hundreds of hours invested, that we were asked to donate to the WBCCI under the condition that nobody could take credit (mere mention or otherwise) for actually doing the work. Kind of like telling Jim H to continue on with his Merit Award program as long as nobody knows he's working on it. Or maybe you being in charge of the EC Committee, but you'd have to go by Chairman X or something.
Our leadership is full of hypocrites Charlie - Not rumor - Not opinion - fact... Some intentionally work against the membership'. right to vote, and be informed, and yet through our failed "leadership self~selection program" these hypocrites are allowed to rise to the top.
Put the club's needs first and foremost and there shouldn't be any problems. Get deluded in compromise and conflict of interest results? They get caught up in thlin one each and every time...
Oh, and I'm very aware of the free offer Tim is talking about It's a URL, WBCClForums.org that Tim would be happy to GIVE to the WBCCI - lock, stock, barrel, passwords - lock Tim out if you like - but it becomes something better than sending Nascar fans to SPRINT for NASCAR business...
Talk isn't cheap here - the amount of electronic communications that we've facilitated here over the last 4 years runs circles around WBCCI's pace to get with the times. SaveWally.org 1
WBCCI.SaveWally.org 1SaveWaUy.org.forums. At at near zero cost (well Tim's domain registration and Tim's donation of hosting space aside). For those that aren't familiar with what those cost (to compare what it would cost the WBCCI to get out of contracting for web service) Domain
registration (the url you go to for $20 a year (padded)), and $4 mth hosting costs. Add software, or FREE software and this club could be saving THOUSANDS a year, all on volunteer effort.
Make it happen Charlie, and volunteers will step up to help you maintain any and all... Just pull the plug on OTC and make it happen...
Lastly (no smilies again - damn!), thanks for stopping by. Don't be a stranger - there's nothing wrong with a little 2-way communication!


« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 11:31 :25 AM by 65GT »
.. This communication underscores not only Leo G's complete lack of common courtesy and respect for WBCCI Leadership and fellow WBCCI club members alike, but also exhibits negligence and dereliction of his elected WBCCI office in the public undennining of organizational authority. Not to
mention the public mockery and humiliation of same. Why would any curious potential new member be persuaded to join WBCCI upon viewing this type of dialog?


(exhibit d)
On Friday morning 06-26-2009 Leo G [6006J attempted to circulate a document to the IBT in order to circumvent and sway a final presentation and vote. This attempt was thwarted by Mr. Jerry Larson, WBCCI
International President. This document is titled "WBCCI Internet Realities - The Internet Building Block" and is an attachment for supporting documentation.
• This document illustrates Leo G's complete lack of common courtesy and respect for his fellow WBCCI club members but also personal abuse of his WBCCI elected position, disregard for established organizational procedures. and his general penchant for sowing strife amongst fellow members of the WBCCL The document itself is a clumsy, 11th hour attempt to create chaos and confusion by presenting misinformation, falsehoods and outright untruths in order to "divide and conquer" which is typical behavior for Leo G and the SaveWally organization.
Let us be clear. There are many organizations and websites which now prosper off of the legacy and history of the Wally Byam Club while at the same time ridiculing it publicly. They include SaveWally, AirForums, and numerous others. While professing public support the troth is that any newly sprouting success of the WBBCI organization poses a grave threat to these other organizations. That is the reason the only thing they ever have to offer are criticisms. Leo G and his SaveWally.org are about promoting Leo G and SaveWally.org.


VIOLATION!S!:
Pursuant to Article XV of the WBCCI Constitution, Bylaws [01119107), Article V, Sect.2,
Pg. 1I, items A & B "Disciplinary Procedures" I hereby file grievance against Leo G [6006) for violations of the WBCCI Code of Ethics:
[1) To be ever mindful of our responsibility to Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., and through conduct indicate to the public that membership in this organization is an assurance ofour courtesy on
the road and good will to all peoples and countries.

[2] To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to its effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members and to dedicate ourselves to the work of cementing together the members of WBCCI in bonds of good fellowship and mutual understanding.

[3] To conduct ourselves in a manner to inspire others engaged in recreational vehicle travel to a full appreciation of the intent and meaning of this code.

[4] To maintain our camps in an orderly manner and leave them in the same way. I do charge that based on the aforementioned evidentiary exhibits [a] through [d] that Leo G has violated in numerous and egregious ways every item in the WBCCI Code of Ethics with the possible exception of item 4 [see supporting documentation]. I respectfully request that WBCCI take stern and aggressive measures against him to eliminate these kinds of actions in our organization both now and into the future.

SUMMARY:
Although l owe the assailants of this project no explanations whatsoever, I would like for the benefit of the Committees to use this SUlIUDary as an opportunity to set the record straight on this project. Together with Charlie Burke, our small group has invested 7 months of effort into building a world-class resource for the WBCCI that surpasses any and all competitors. Everything has been professionally hand built and it is hosted professionally on the level of Youtube & eBay. No expense has been spared. Unbeknownst to the membership at large, we have discussed with Airstream, Inc. their potential participation on the new Forums. Charlie Burke has been in contact with Mr. Wheeler who in tum has reacted very favorably. Just this past Saturday, June 20, I was contacted at borne by the head of marketing and branding at Airstream. I have a long-standing and friendly relationship with him. One of his comments to me on Saturday [with a chuckle] was, and I quote, "Greg, your biggest problem is your level of quality and your eye for detail. The site is wonderful and we want you right where you are."
I personally urge the leadership to verify these things for themselves based on MY facts. The SaveWally.org organization was complicit in these actions. The continuous assault on this project WBCCI membership & WBCCI Leadership by peny self-centered individuals runs the very real risk of ruining the untold bright opportunities that are opening up for the future of the WBCCI.
It is my sincere hope & desire that this document, in its entirety, containing all the facts will be made public so that it is visible for everyone to see the truth. As they say "Light is the best disinfectant."
Thank you for your time and prompt attention on this matter.
Sincerely,
Gregory A. Gibson
WBCCI#2026
704-566-1437 plf

I hope this makes the document a better read. Any errors of syntax or intent, other than the original posters, are entirely mine.
It took a while to edit everything, so I'll do the next post in the morning, unless somebody else wants to spend an hour or two editing...

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

It is my understanding his membership expired the same day he filed 2 of the 3 grievances, but he renewed on the spot

An update correction on that, his membership expired 12-2008, he did not renew at region 3.
He renewed as a MAL in 6-23.

So he was not a member in good standing working with Charlie Burke on a club web site??

-------

[Paul&Dee]

My bad. From what I could make out of the original post, I thought LIPETS was the one who was filing the grievances, not the person reporting about them. Even if that were true, the post was unnecessarily rude.

Paul

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

FORMAL GRIEVANCE

DATE: June 23,2009
TO: Mr. Jerry Larson, President, Wally Byam Caravan Club Intelllational
RE: Grievance - filed against Kimber Moore WBCCI #11281, Unit II-nor cal).-VAC Vintage Advantage
Newsletter Editor, CAe

STATEMENT:
This document will outline and prove conclusively that Kimber Moore [11281] did willfully and knowingly participate and assist in conducting a campaign of intimidation and smear against my person, character, and
business in a manner that constitutes gross negligence of her official WBCCI duties, dereliction of her WBCCI position, and further violates nearly every item of the WBCCI code of ethics to which she is bound.
as a member.
This record will also conclusively demonstrate that Kimber Moore [11281] is complicit in word and deed with her spouse Tim Iendziorski [17330] and that the two work in concert and often interchangeably with shared forum names ~ shared accounts and shared credits on various webpages.
To wit SaveWally.org and wbcciforums.org [examples provided below].
Moore's public behavior further demonstrates such a level of disregard for the WBCCl and its membership as to at least partially explain. the declining membership numbers and the current overall state of the club due to exposure of members and potential members to his public communications.
Ref. Sec III. WBeel. Constitution.

FACTS:
[grammatical errors of posts corrected-(more-or-less)]
[emphasis (bold face) has been added. by me]
I exhibit a:

On 06-19-2009 @ 6:37 AMo Tim I(endziorski [17330] entered the following post on the WBCCI Forums under his moniker "buttercup".

Contained within this post were links to an unauthorized screenshot of the new WBCCl Forums taken by Kendziorski after obtaining confidential advanced access fi'OITI Charlie Burke prior to public launch.
Kendziorski's "spouse Kimber Moore [11281] then took the stolen unauthorized screenshot and in an illegal manner digitally altered it to contain the following wording:
'"WBCCl.org should be title /tome of the new WBCCI Forums.•• But it isn't. Instead, the powers that be decided to host it away join the WBCCI's controlled web space and over to a commercial used Airstream dealer's site. To resolve the situation, this site - WBCClforums.org has been offered to WBCCI- domain.
J1Gfne and hosting space, cmpletely free, no endorsements or requirements for reimbursements of any kind Click here to find out more. "
The illegally altered and unauthorized screenshot can be seen at: http://wbcciforums.org
The illegal and unauthorized screenshot functions as a simple click through webpage that takes the viewer to a letter written by Kimber Moore [11281] that is addressed to the International Board of Trustees (see
[exhibit b). Copies are provided as attachments [support documentation].
buttercup 06-19-2009 @ 6:37 AM
In the latest of things that WBCCI probably should NOT do to help itself: the newly created forums, which will be presented at the International Rally in Madison, is going to be hosted on a site that is not owned or
operated by the WBCCI. In fact - it will be on a site belonging to a commercial vendor that has zero responsibility or ties to WBCCI. Well, he is a member of WBCCl - at least that much.
Looking at these new forums it is apparent that a lot or work has gone into upgrading things. But it also appears that not much thought was given to the multitude of issues that can and inevitably will arise from NOT hosting those forums on a site that is owned, managed and controlled by the WBCCI. You can't see the forums just yet, but you can see a preview at WBCCI Forums.
Consider things like Identity, backup issues, loss of data or the forums itself. What if the vendor goes out of business? What if???? I think these questions were not thought of. But if they were, they were
discarded as unimportant. Charlie Burke, who is heading up the new forums project states that this all occurred with the Executive Committee's acceptance. But I do not think they knew the whole story.
Having been one who for a short time at least, was on the committee to institute these new forums I have nothing but disappointment for the direction that these forums have taken with respect to the hosting and
taking the cheapest route possible. Hosting them as a sub domain on a commercial vendor's site offers nothing towards the identity of WBCCI. It is just a sub domain... It further lowers the WBCCI.'s standing in the RV community.
I still believe that there is time to correct this situation. I think that given the choice, the WBCCI could alter course before it's too late and get a domain name and server space and put a forums where- they should be -
under the direct and complete control of the WBCCI.
And for that I am willing to try right here and now to help them -I am offering FREE of endorsements, sponsor links, fees dues or recompense OF ANY KIND to host the new forums under a site that is owned by WBCCI. And if it can't be on WBCCl.org, no problem - I have purchased the
domain name WBCCIforums.Org and I win GIVE that to the WBCCI. free of charge, endorsements, sponsor links, fees dues or recompense OF ANY KIND so that the new forums can be hosted on a site that is owned and controlled by WBCCI This offer is such that if WBCCI wanted, they could also transfer WBCCI.Org to the same server space and start maintaining that for, freeing them from. OTS and saving the club $3000 per year. These items I am giving to WBCCI if they will take it. FREE The domain name is all set up and the server space is sitting and waiting.
I am just a WBCCI member who is concerned that the WBCCI leadership should really consider the implications of hosting such a valuable asset off site and out from it's direct control when it doesn't have to. These new forums SHOULD be under the WBCCI umbrella, not parked away on some sub domain on a site not in any way related to the organization.
I believe wbcci.org is the best place to host the forums, but if it can't be done - WBCClforums.Org is a far better choice than a name which is misleading at best, will confuse many members (hey, is this a vintage site I am going to?) and eventually will have to be moved to WBCCI's site sooner or later. Why take a chance at losing all of that data? Let's make the right move NOW, Either park those forums at WBCCI.org or move them to a web site that the WBCCI can own right now tor zero cost.
Let's fix this now! Want more information; see the full story at SaveWally.org
WBCCI #17330

Information included in this post were shared in confidence. To include them was wholly inappropriate.
This message was edited by cbburke on 6...19-09 @ 10:17 AM.
* This post with a link to a stolen unauthorized screenshot of the new WBCCI Forum that has been illegally digitally altered and parked at a URL owned by Kimber Moore & Tim Kendziorski delnonstrates Kimber Moore's complicit behavior with her spouse 'rim Kendziorski in 1110unting a campaign of intimidation against the new WBCCI. Forums development group, WBCCI membership and WBCCI Board Of Trustees in order to marginalize and destroy the new WBCCI Forums effort.
As an administrator/moderator of the WBCCl forum Charlie Burke edited the post to eliminate the wbcciforums.org link to the unauthorized and illegal screenshot obtained by Kimber & Tim and also the letter posted by Kimber Moore to the Board Of Trustees [see notation at bottom of post].

[exhibit b]
On [or about] 06-19-2009 @ 6: 37 A.M J<imber Moore [11281] wrote and posted the following webpage at wbcciforums.org [date/time this webpage was posted at this URL is approx since exact information is nearly impossible to determine]:
Timothy Kendziorski Kimber Moore 21640 Sazarac Rd. V C l-Highlands, NV 89521 (775) 842-0629
tim@archnevada.com
Dear International Board of Trustees,
It has come to our attention that the newly proposed forum, which will be presented at the International Rally in Madison, is going to be hosted on a site that is not owned or operated by the WBCCI.
Furthermore, this move is bad corporate branding and marketing. It is a poor choice to use a Web site that is so far outside the umbrella of the WBCCI, when it is not necessary. The new proposed forums are being hosted as a subdomain of a commercial vendor's Web site - http://forums.vintageairstream.org. We are offering a different solution.
The WBCCI should have it's own identity and maintain that at all times. The new forums ideally should be housed under the WBCCI.org name. But if that is not possible, it should be housed under an asset wholly owned and controlled by the WBCCI.
Charlie Burke, our Electronic Communications Subcommittee Chair is doing a thorough job spearheading the effort to improve our forums software and implementation. The results are sure to be far beyond the services provided by the old forums. But, hosting the forums at a third-party vendor site will take the forum user to a location that is neither controlled by, nor owned by the WBCCI this will imply that the WBCCI endorses this commercial vendor. Our club leadership MUST see their way clear on this, a WBCCI forums must be located within a WBCCI owned and operated location.
We propose that the WBCCI/lBT consider our offer. We have acquired the domain name WBCClforums.org and will make it available immediately, free and clear with no strings attached, for the WBCCI to use for the new forums. Included with this is hosting for the WBCClforums.org domain as well as wbcci.org if needed. This is web hosting that will be completely controlled by WBCCI.
To give you some history, this offer has been made previously, when M.r. Burke first contacted us asking if Tim would like to be a team member of the ECSC in November, 2008. This offer was set
aside because there was "another offer" to consider - that of Vintage-Airstream.com. WBCCI.forums.org has been obtained and has been set up, and is READY TO GO!
The work donated by Vintage..Airstream.com can be preserved. and fully credited, for creating and obligingly updating the forums software, so no work is lost. The new forums software can be moved in a matter of hours without interruption of service or delays in the launch of the new forums planned for late June, 2009. The WBCCI should consider the consequences of hosting the forums at a third-party site.
Beyond the implied WBCCI endorsement of the vendor and potential confusion stemming from the forums location, there are additional points to consider. What if the relationship between the vendor and WBCCI sours? What if later on the WBCCI decides to move the forums under the umbrella of WBCCI.org? Will the forums and its complete contents be lost with no backup? Will there be legal issues? Can the WBCCI tolerate this loss?
We hope the WBCCI/IBT will seriously consider hosting the forums at a site owned and controlled by WBCCI. The forums belong to the club and its members. The members are ready and wining to make a difference for the club.
Please contact use for all the details of our offer of this gift to the WBCCI. We are members who believe that corporate branding and wise Internet practices work! The interests of the club should be filled here and now.
Tim Kendziorski WBCCI #17330, Unit 17o-wdcu, VAC Membership Chair, VAC Webmaster, CAe Kimber Moore WBCCI #11281, Unit II-nor cal, VAC Vintage Advantage Newsletter Editor, CAe
* This webpage/letter created and posted by Kimber Moore provides clear evidence in several places of the interchangeable and complicit nature of behavior between Kimber Moore & Tim Kendziorski in their attempted campaign to destroy the new WBCCI forum project and undermine organizational authority [shared credits at bottom of page as well as Kimber's reference to Tim in bold above for emphasis]. It also demonstrates the gross negligence of Kimber Moore's affiliation with the WBCCI in her unauthorized theft of and illegal digital altering of copyrighted materials and displaying same in a public forum in an attempt to discredit and smear a WBCCI member. Of particular note are the repeated solicitations here and
elsewhere by Kimber Moore & Tim Kendziorski for the WBCCI to accept a domain name

Whew!

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Paul&Dee

My bad. From what I could make out of the original post, I thought LIPETS was the one who was filing the grievances, not the person reporting about them. Even if that were true, the post was unnecessarily rude.

Paul

Paul, I'm trying to clean them up, and repost them so they are a little easier to read. They are still pretty "windy", but that's just the nature of legalese.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Paul&Dee

My bad. From what I could make out of the original post, I thought LIPETS was the one who was filing the grievances, not the person reporting about them. Even if that were true, the post was unnecessarily rude.

Paul

Always good to acknowledge you could have done something differently. You are not the only one here who has let their thoughts transfer a little too quickly to the keyboard!

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

. . . He renewed as a MAL in 6-23.

So he was not a member in good standing working with Charlie Burke on a club web site??
-------

So this guy was not a member of WBCCI when the alleged violations took place?

What right does he have to file a grievance then, if he wasn't a member?

That would be like me (also a non-member) filing a grievance.

It sounds like something he should take to civil court as a business interference lawsuit.

[craftsman]

Originally Posted by Paul&Dee

My bad. From what I could make out of the original post, I thought LIPETS was the one who was filing the grievances, not the person reporting about them. Even if that were true, the post was unnecessarily rude.

Paul

Good man!

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

[wbcciforums.org] containing the WBCCl corporate trademarked name.that resolves to an illegally obtained and duplicated image that has also been illegally digitally manipulated.
Does the WBCCI organization wish to entangle itself with individuals who apparently are without compunction in committing illegal activities such as copyright infringement, illegal domain squatting and digital piracy?
*Furthermore, Kimber Moore &Tim Kendziorski's registering of a domain name using WBBCI's corporate brand without notifying or seeking approval from WBCCI first is something the WBCCI should be extremely concerned with. This is a federal offense according to the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act. I intimately familiar with the issues surrounding corporate and organizational identity as well as copyright, branding, and trademark issues.

[exhibit c]
On 06-22-2009 @ 10:29:04 PM Tim Kendziorski [17330J entered the following post on the SaveWally.org Forums under his moniker "Simon" aka - Buttercup - Kimber & Tim:
Re: WBCCI Forums - Missing The Mark?
«Reply #36 on: 06-22-2009 at 10:29:04 PM»
Charlie,
Funny - To be ever mindful of our responsibility to Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc.?
Does that include buying into forums that will not be in the of the club as region 3 painfully found out? O.K...
For his membership -I guess he wrote that check faster than I thought. What date was it received at WBCCI HQ? When did he write it to his unit? Why is Greg to scared to answer that himself that he has to go through to be his mouthpiece. Here are the FACTS - I contacted Jodi Morris on the 11th of June, as I do every year, to verify membership of the folks on the VAC's membership list, I am after all the membership coordinator of the VAC. Those who are not in the club's published directory are verified with Jodi at HQ. JfU email the message she returned to me with the names and such of the people sent to her if you want to see it... Greg's renewal had not at that time been received, thus he was NOT in fact a member in good standing. Those are the FACTS, period. PU just go ahead and contact her again to see when the check was finally received. What I will find is the same - he was not in good standing and suddenly got a check in.
In any event, if anybody is lying it would be Jodi, and I would be happy to pass along that you think her records are wrong if you would like. Perhaps her records are off. But nonetheless, as of the 11 th according to HER records, he was not in good standing - period. And until I hear otherwise from her, he will not be a member of the VAC, but just a subscriber.
Look, Charlie, I am done with you and Greg. It is apparent that there will be zero consideration of my offer or my concern, WBCCI will never even hear of it I am sure. They put 100% trust in your decision and you
have chosen. They care zero of branding and identity, concepts you probably also are unaware of. Fine. You have your forums. Great. Congratulations. As far as I can see, you made choices that you are now unable to extricate yourself from and from which the club will suffer Just as has Region 3 has and still does with the indignant redirect that now
just goes to GoDaddy. It could, with a mouseclick, go to the correct site. Talk about the quality of character - Greg could have fixed that and he is still screwing Region 3 over. You are in essence supporting that. This doesn't bother you, but it bothers me and Region 3. And it negatively impacts the club. It makes Region 3 look stupid and unsophisticated. Congratulations, that is YOUR web guy.
Look, if you really care about the club - get your man to fix that. If not, you and Greg are culpable of screwing the club and that fine region over.
The choices you have made are already causing the club damage - I cant see where it will improve. You win. But the club loses. Congratulations again. And if you want to make it an issue of me posting a screenpict of the forums Greg paid to have made, take me to court. You will learn the
benefits of posting a copyright notice and including statements in the TOS against posting screenpicts instead of writing 1800 words of further oppression against the membership.
My offer for a cocktail at my trailer still stands - it is probably the only offer that stands even a small chance of being accepted.... Look for me #17330 in the VAC area. I serve only the finest 5 times distilled vodka's..
Bob - WBCCI does own the WBCCI.org domain name, But they are locked into a situation with 01'C where that basically can not get out of the hosting of that site without paying an arm and a leg.
« Last Edit: 06-22-2009 at ]0:46:43 PM by SilTIOn »
* This post from the SaveWally.org forum provides clear evidence of the interchangeable online identity between Kimber Moore and Tim Kendziorski [aka ... Buttercup - Kimber & Tim). Beginning with this mockery of the WBCCIs Code of Ethics, this communication underscores not only a complete lack of common courtesy and respect for fellow WBCCI club members but also a personal abuse of WBCCI membership and a general penchant for sowing strife and disharmony amongst fellow members of the
WBCCI. This post also dangerously crosses into the realm of legalities in relation to personal slander and libel to which there will also be an accounting.

VIOLATION;
Pursuant to Article XV"j Sec. I of the WBCCI Constitution, Bylaws, Article V, Sect.2, Pg. 11 [01/19/07],
items A & B "Disciplinary Procedures" J. hereby file grievance against Kimber Moore [11281] for violations of the WBCCI Code of Ethics:
[1] To be ever Mindful of our responsibility to Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., and through conduct, indicate to the public that membership in this organization is an assurance of our courtesy on
the road and good will to all peoples and countries.
[2] To be ever Mindful of what we say or print with respect to its effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members and to dedicate ourselves to the work of cementing together the '-____ ]n~Jnb_eL~ of WBCCl bQDd~_oi_~oQd fellowship ~mutual understanding.
[3] To conduct ourselves in a manner to inspire others engaged in recreational vehicle travel to a full appreciation of the intent and meaning of this code.
[4] To maintain our camps in an orderly manner and leave them in the same way.
I do charge that based on the aforementioned evidentiary exhibits [a] through [c] that Kimber Moore has violated in numerous and egregious ways every item in the WBCCI Code of Ethics with the possible
exception of item 4 [see supporting documentation] I respectfully request that WBCCI take stern and aggressive measures against her to eliminate these kinds of actions in our organization both now and into the future.
And furthermore, Pursuant to Article XV, Sec.1 of the WBCCI Constitution, Bylaws, Article V, Sec. 5, Pg 14 [07/05/05]:
The suspension or expulsion of any member as provided in this article shall be deemed to include the spouse of any such member so suspended or expelled.
With prior disciplinary actions on record as having been expelled from a previous unit, Kimber Moore and Tim Kendziorski have since obtained two [2] separate membership numbers for two [2] separate trailers
and have affiliation with two [2] separate units in an attempt to game the system with clever maneuvering and exploit loopholes to avoid any future jeopardizing of their membership status.
SUMMARY:
Although l owe the assailants of this project no explanations whatsoever, I would like for the benefit of the Committees to use this summary as an opportunity to set the record straight on this project.
Together with Charlie Burke~ our small group has invested 7 months of effort into building a world-class resource for the WBCCI that surpasses any and all competitors. Everything has been professionally handbuilt
and it is hosted professionally on the level of YouTube & e·Bay. No expense has been spared.
Unbeknownst to the membership at large, we have discussed with Airstream, Inc. their potential participation on the new Forums. Charlie Burke has been in contact with Mr. Wheeler who in turn has reacted very favorably. Just this past Saturday, June 20, I was contacted at home by the head of marketing
and branding at Airstream. I have a long-standing and friendly relationship with him. One of his Comments to me on Saturday [with a chuckle] was, and I quote, "Greg, your biggest problem is your level of quality
and your eye for detail. ...the site is wonderful and we want you right where you are."
l personally urge the leadership to verify these things for themselves based on MY facts.
Kimber Moore used her husband Tim Kendziorski's unauthorized stolen screenshots and illegally digitally altered them without permission with the express intent to execute a campaign to destroy the new forum.
The Save-Wally.org organization was complicit in these actions. The assault on this project by petty self centered individuals runs the very real risk of ruining the untold bright opportunities that are opening up for
the future of the WBCCI.
It is my sincere hope & desire that this document, in its entirety, containing all the facts will be made public so that it is visible for everyone to see the truth. As they say "light is the best disinfectant.'
Thank you for your time and prompt attention on this matter.
Sincerely,
Gregory A. Gibson
WBCCI # 2026
704-566-1437 p/f

Some of the stuff I couldn't figure out, and left as hash...

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I am attempting to distill this down. So this grievance comes down to three people publicly said the new WBCCI is crap and the guy responsible was unhappy about that. Is that right?

Well I too think the new forum is crap. There I said it publicly. My member number is #7183 please feel free to file one against me too.

[bob280]

It is my opinion that, if such grievances were in fact filed at all, they are pure bunk. It is my opinion, as a member of AIP (the people who are in charge of RONR), that the three so called grievances ane invalid because od date conflicts and other reasons and should have been rejected by the immediate PIP as being improper. It is my hope that the PIP' apparent dislike for Leo, Tim and Kimber and their exposure of the ownership of the WBCCI website did not color his decision. The New IP should use common sense and throw out the entire matter.

Bye the Way, these grievances appear to be invalid IAW NORN - Is the "I par" sleeping on the job???

Well, all of the above is my "differing opinion"

Bob T
WBCCI 280

[Goin camping]

I've joined the new website and while it's not great. It's not lousy either. Pretty middle of the road.

Does anyone know who owns the domain name and content?

[eubank]

What a darn mess. I have exactly seven words for Greg, for Leo, and for just about everybody else: Kindness is contagious and so is anger.

Lynn

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by eubank

What a darn mess. I have exactly seven words for Greg, for Leo, and for just about everybody else: Kindness is contagious and so is anger.

Lynn

Lynn,

I agree and would like to believe that all disagreements or opposing views can be expressed civilly and without filing grievances.

Milo

[bob280]

Mr. GG, It is my opinion that a grievance should be filed against you by every good member of the Club for the following reasons:

You stated that Leo was negligent ...(see above copies of the so called grievances) - Leo has every right to express his opinions and such has nothing to do with his holding an elected office - thus you have tarnished his rep.

Kember is an editor of a newsletter and has a constitutional right to free speach and free publication of the facts and opinions of others.

The incidents you refer to in your grievances occured while you were NOT a member and there for you have misused the WBCCI constitution and By-Laws wrongfully.

Leo and Tim were expressing their "differing opinions" AND were telling the truth, thus such is NOT the grounds for a proper grievance.

It appears that You have concealed the facts as to your full relationship with WBCCI and thus brings up a question of "Ethics"

OH!

Remember last years IP claiming confidentiality in reference to grievances, well, I don't hear him or the current IP saying anything about that now.

This whole thing appears to be mudracking and retalation for the exposure of GG's apparent connection to the WBCCI website.

It appears to me that it would be best in the interest of the Club, Leo, Tim. Kimber and GG that the grievances be withdrwn and the matter dropped. If not, then I forsee lots of problems (legal, ethical and otherwise).

Myy Name is Bob Thompson, My current address is 6517 Highland Haven Road, Copper Hill, VA My WBCCI number is @*)

You want to file a grievance against me, have at it, but be prepared for you could lose big time.

[Wingeezer]

I am a relatively new AS owner. While I hope not to be described as antisocial, I am nevertheless not too much of a joiner when it comes to big groups or clubs.

As example, I have found that when pursuing a hobby in motorcyle touring, while I did join a large international group, in the end I found I was much happier just touring with a few close friends.

In any event, I had been mulling over the possible merits of joining the WBCCI since we bought our trailer last Fall.

After reading about some of the antics going on however, not that I pretend to understand much of it, especially with the plethora of acronymns (!), I think I'll just bide my time and see if the dust has settled in a year or so, and if so, what remains at that time! At present I'm developing the view that it might just be more of a source of aggravation than enjoyment!

On the other hand, perhaps an outsider gets a distorted view reading all this negativity and what seems like rather juvenile mud slinging! No way to know unless I became a member I suppose. We'll see!

No offense meant to anyone, just a neophyte's observations.


Brian

[bob280]

Referemce my last posting, That WBCCI number is 280

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by bob280

Myy Name is Bob Thompson, My current address is 6517 Highland Haven Road, Copper Hill, VA My WBCCI number is @*).

Its kind of a shame that isnt your number, that would make for a cool set of decals on the rig.

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I am a relatively new AS owner. While I hope not to be described as antisocial, I am nevertheless not too much of a joiner when it comes to big groups or clubs.

As example, I have found that when pursuing a hobby in motorcyle touring, while I did join a large international group, in the end I found I was much happier just touring with a few close friends.

In any event, I had been mulling over the possible merits of joining the WBCCI since we bought our trailer last Fall.

After reading about some of the antics going on however, not that I pretend to understand much of it, especially with the plethora of acronymns (!), I think I'll just bide my time and see if the dust has settled in a year or so, and if so, what remains at that time! At present I'm developing the view that it might just be more of a source of aggravation than enjoyment!

On the other hand, perhaps an outsider gets a distorted view reading all this negativity and what seems like rather juvenile mud slinging! No way to know unless I became a member I suppose. We'll see!

No offense meant to anyone, just a neophyte's observations.


Brian

Brian,

This international level discussion is one thing. The true meat of the club is the Unit you belong too. I'm sure you would shop around your area and pick a unit that fits you. They all have different personalities.

That unit is what you would really care about as it would be full of friends you like to camp, party, eat and be with.

The Mrs. and I look forward with anticipation to our units rallies. We know we're going to have a blast and laugh and get to visit with a really great eclectic group that we accept as is and they accept us as is. The unit makes the International easy to ignore except when discussing it here.

Milo