Good-bye WBCCI

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by Action

I have a question .....For those that are or will be members in 2010.

Do you feel there needs to be some change?
If so what are you doing or will do to create that change?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

I'm paid up and not asking for a refund this year. I'm allowing my $55 to be squandered this year by IBT for the privilege of being able to camp at some upcoming WBCCI-sanctioned, unit-organized events. If it doesn't prove to be worthwhile, then the only hope for WBCCI to get my money next year is if the new NOVA unit is chartered in July. If the WBCCI camping that I do this year proves to be rallies that I want to continue to attend in future years and there's likelihood that the events will not go non-WBCCI then I will pay the WBCCI for the privilege of camping at these rallies.

For those unfamiliar with the concept of NOVA, just do a search here and you can find the thread. It will a 100% virtual unit where face-to-face meetings and "luncheons" only happen while camping. I think this will be a model for future WBCCI units to follow. After doing that for a couple of years, then I'll re-evaluate whether or not I feel my money and involvement in WBCCI is necessary and if I can effect change from within or if it's better to walk the plank.

-Jason

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by firedog

I have been thinking of starting my own club called SILVER STREAMERS.All executives
officers get no pay , no travel allowances , there is no club fees, only a background check for crooks and thieves. linking it with a great magazine like a airstream life.all unit dues would stay in the units.a national rally 2 times a year both coast for all members and non member prospects. WOULD OR COULD IT WORK?

I believe it could and would work. BUT, there's got to be a group of people that can dedicate 100% of their time to getting this going which would likely take 2-4 years to get it running like a well oiled machine. Your suggestions have been mentioned many times in other threads and forums in almost verbatim. I think there's many people that would love such a club. Again, BUT someone has to be either retired and well off financially or independently wealthy at a young age. For someone like me, I can't dedicate that kind of time to organizing something new. I wish I could, but I would have to quit work and then I'd have no money. No money means my family cannot eat, my mortgage will not get paid, and there's no gas money for the Excursion in order to haul the Airstream. So that kinda puts a damper on me spearheading a new Airstream club. What we need is a volunteer or volunteers that have the time, money, and resources to take on and promote such a club for 2-4 straight before handing it off to a rotation of elected officials to keep in running year after year. Until we have that, we're stuck with the WBCCI or independent camping / AirForums camping.

[StingrayL82]

Originally Posted by firedog

I have been thinking of starting my own club called SILVER STREAMERS.All executives
officers get no pay , no travel allowances , there is no club fees, only a background check for crooks and thieves. linking it with a great magazine like a airstream life.all unit dues would stay in the units.a national rally 2 times a year both coast for all members and non member prospects. WOULD OR COULD IT WORK?

May as well just join the Royal Rovers, the Streamline Travel Trailer club. Although Streamline may be defunct, the club is still around.

[Lothlorian]

One thing to consider is that the American worker's leisure time has been cut to about 25 hours or less a week. It is not like the old days (my parents era). I imagine with people getting laid off and those remaining on the job picking up the slack time is being cut even more. If you are retired or have lots of free time for a new club a time commitment towards it would make it happen. I just don't see people in general getting the time off for the rallies or even that pre-determined weekend set for a fun together. It is challenging these days.

I am blessed to get all the student holidays off because of my job, but I also have other commitments. We Americans work longer hours, more days, and have less vacation time then our European counterparts.

Brian

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

One thing to consider is that the American worker's leisure time has been cut to about 25 hours or less a week. It is not like the old days (my parents era). I imagine with people getting laid off and those remaining of the job picking up the slack time is been cut even more. If you are retired or have lots of fee time a new club and a commitment towards it would make it happen. I just don't see people in general getting the time off for the rallies or even that pre-determined weekend set for a get together. It is challenging these days.

I am blessed to get all the student holidays off because of my job, but I also have other commitments. We Americans work longer hours, more days, and have less vacation time then our European counterparts.

Brian

I'll second that! From personal experience (I took a 2 year transfer to the German division of my company) I know that there's much more time off and much more emphasis on taking time off from work and spending it with family and traveling. The day you start work in Germany, you are given 30 vacation days a year. That doesn't increase over the years, but that's enough that it doesn't need to increase. Plus, you still get holidays on top of that! People take vacation just to sit at home for 2 weeks and relax. It was great.

Back to the USA worker's reality...not that I even want to be part of the crew that puts on an international WBCCI rally, but when I read the schedule of when people should show up for Madison; I was floored. Even to help with the rally you need to have like 4-6 weeks off! You would never have this time unless you meet the conditions in my previous post about who could start a new club (retired and/or wealthy). So, we're destined to have the national body and national rallies setup by either retired folks or people who have so much money that they don't need to work and want hang out with retired people for 4-6 weeks. I just wish these people could do this work as the VOLUNTEER work that it is and not take kickbacks/perks for it.

[Lothlorian]

I would like to hang out for a few days with a bunch of airstreamers. I would not just have fun but I could learn so much about making my ride better.

Sometimes I wonder if I just posted and said I am going to be here camping for a week and just come hang out. No meeting, Don't expect anything, bring your own food and drink. I wonder if anybody would show.

Brian

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

I would like to hang out for a few days with a bunch of airstreamers. I would not just have fun but I could learn so much about making my ride better.

Sometimes I wonder if I just posted and said I am going to be here camping for a week and just come hang out. No meeting, Don't expect anything, bring your own food and drink. I wonder if anybody would show.

Brian

Brian, that's called an AirForums rally.

Roger

[robandzoe]

The Laws of the Navy say alot! At USNA as a plebe during Plebe Summer, long ago, I had to know and recite all 27 verses in order to sit and eat lunch.

"The Laws of the Navy"

Now, I've used the 3rd law alot...

Take heed what you say of your seniors,
Be your words spoken softly or plain,
Let a bird of the air tell the matter,
And so shall ye hear it again.

You see, we ate 12 to a table... where one was the Senior in charge... one meal we never ate as we could not get through all the verses... the Firstie would start on the plebe to his left, and we had to go around the table with each plebe having to do a verse... until we got all said.. man I was hungry that day....

The next meal, we figured out who would sit where, and that way we only needed to know two or three versus... but he started in the other direction... didn't eat the food served that meal either.

Some of those versus were hard to memorize.. but each has good life lessons in them. Back then, we had to just memorize them.. not understand them.

I can relate this one to the WBCCI

Say the wise: How may I know their purpose?
Then acts without wherefore or why.
Stays the fool but one moment to question,
And the chance of his life passes by.

Read them all, they are interesting! May 2010 bring prosperity!

Rob

[DFDureiko]

This has always been a very hard situation. I understand not wanting to have negative stuff to turn off new members. But, on the other hand, we can't be Pleasantville and pretend it's not there and ignore it or nothing would change. I'm guessing the new WBCCI forums do not allow good discussion of our issues.
If Rob starts a new club, I'd like to be a charter member. and be in TWO clubs.
I think I'll be in the WBCCI till they turn out the lights, (or there are no trailers left
I'm way too entrenched with my long time friends, and some new fantastic rally's we have planned and are planning.
I also understand the plight of the "working" person. I had a full time job as a flight attendant for ATA Airlines for 20 years, until they went under in April '08. I was very senior, got every vacation and schedule I wanted. This enabled me to go to TONS of rally's, and I wound up as VP of Region 1, based on my life at the time.
Now I'll be starting as a newbie somewhere, and depending on the company, I may not have a flexible schedule, may have to resign, and revert to the ocassional weekend Rally. If I had a 9-5 job with weekends off, no way in the world I could be a Region officer, under the current structure.
I'll also tell you. I started in the WBCCI with my parents at 16yo, and was very comfortable and used to the pomp and circumstance. It was only after I was asked to be a Region VP and got more into things that I had an awakening.
and trust me I have very dear friends, which I consider almost my aunts and uncles in this club, and we are on opposite sides of the fence, BIGTIME.
oh, and one more thing, DO think and sleep on your thoughts when your heated up, DONT hit that send button, sleep on it. Be there done that, bad scene!
Dan

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by atobols

...not that I even want to be part of the crew that puts on an international WBCCI rally, but when I read the schedule of when people should show up for Madison; I was floored. Even to help with the rally you need to have like 4-6 weeks off! You would never have this time unless you meet the conditions in my previous post about who could start a new club (retired and/or wealthy). So, we're destined to have the national body and national rallies setup by either retired folks or people who have so much money that they don't need to work and want hang out with retired people for 4-6 weeks. I just wish these people could do this work as the VOLUNTEER work that it is and not take kickbacks/perks for it.

Hi Atobols:

One unstated yet benign purpose of the International Rally is to "make work" for a large number of retired people so they may feel wanted and useful in today's fast-changing world. Just look at all the repeated monthly ads in the Blue Beret for members to sign up for numerous types of committees and activities to contribute to the event.

The International is not a model of efficiency or brimming with cutting edge technology. I believe this is purposefully done to make some long-retired folks comfortable with showing up and contributing to a common enterprise. They use a lot of older technology they were familiar with when last employed. Many of these volunteers literally have long "paid their dues" to the WBCCI and are now enjoying the benefit of having unrestricted time to spend leisurely doing something they enjoy -- being with their contemporaries pulling together an event that can be enjoyed by all WBCCI members. I can see how these volunteers would much rather spend 4 to 6 weeks leisurely rallying and working with contemporaries than sitting home in a rocking chair. I can only hope that when I finally retire I have the free time and adequate health to do the same thing with my WBCCI friends.

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

The International is not a model of efficiency or brimming with cutting edge technology. I believe this is purposefully done to make some long-retired folks comfortable with showing up and contributing to a common enterprise. They use a lot of older technology they were familiar with when last employed. Many of these volunteers literally have long "paid their dues" to the WBCCI and are now enjoying the benefit of having unrestricted time to spend leisurely doing something they enjoy -- being with their contemporaries pulling together an event that can be enjoyed by all WBCCI members. I can see how these volunteers would much rather spend 4 to 6 weeks leisurely rallying and working with contemporaries than sitting home in a rocking chair. I can only hope that when I finally retire I have the free time and adequate health to do the same thing with my WBCCI friends.

Me too, except when I'm retired and doing this (maybe, if the WBCCI is still around or there's another Airstream group holding national rallies) I will realize that it's not a party just for me and my retired friends. I will realize that in order for the club to continue, I must provide and organize events which apply to the interests of a wide audience. Yeah, a bridge playing time is a good idea. BUT, there also needs to be something for the 40-50 crowd and something for the 30-40 crowd and something for the 20-30 crowd and something for the 15-20 crowd and something for the 10-15 crowd and something for the 5-10 crowd and something for the 5 and under crowd. I wouldn't just party hard and forget about everyone else. International is intended to attract as many people as possible from the WBCCI. If you're not having things that attract people under the age of 50 then what can you expect to have for attendance?

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

One unstated yet benign purpose of the International Rally is to "make work" for a large number of retired people so they may feel wanted and useful in today's fast-changing world. Just look at all the repeated monthly ads in the Blue Beret for members to sign up for numerous types of committees and activities to contribute to the event.

The International is not a model of efficiency or brimming with cutting edge technology. I believe this is purposefully done to make some long-retired folks comfortable with showing up and contributing to a common enterprise. They use a lot of older technology they were familiar with when last employed. Many of these volunteers literally have long "paid their dues" to the WBCCI and are now enjoying the benefit of having unrestricted time to spend leisurely doing something they enjoy -- being with their contemporaries pulling together an event that can be enjoyed by all WBCCI members. I can see how these volunteers would much rather spend 4 to 6 weeks leisurely rallying and working with contemporaries than sitting home in a rocking chair. I can only hope that when I finally retire I have the free time and adequate health to do the same thing with my WBCCI friends.

That sounds very much like a program that needs to be cut financially and shouldered more appropriately by the members that are in line to enjoy the long stays. I don't think anyone begrudges the retired their leisure but we should all young or old pay our own way. This is not RV club social security, it is the Airstream Club, and the governance is not only skewed, but nostalgically guilting other younger members into paying excessive membership fees to allow preferential treatment for the elder volunteers.

More power to them and let them have their choice of fanfare but NOT at the expense of others that do not share equally in their benefits. A more appropriate pricing of membership and events could improve poor morale. That camel's back is not getting any straighter...

[Lily&Me]

"I don't think anyone begrudges the retired their leisure but we should all young or old pay our own way. This is not RV club social security, it is the Airstream Club, and the governance is not only skewed, but nostalgically guilting other younger members into paying excessive membership fees to allow preferential treatment for the elder volunteers."

Very good!

[Rhonda]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

Did you hear they are replacing the soap opera show Guiding light with a new soap opera show called As the Airstream wheels turn. Ha Ha just kidding. Frank I said what you stated earlier. If you don't like the service don't pay for it.

Why do people keep paying and joining because?? To find out click below

01-01-2010, 07:51 PM	#415
smily Still Working     1994 36' Classic 36 North Charleston , South Carolina Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,686 Images: 19	Wowsers! Just stopped by to check in on the ol gang. I dont get here often anymore but I gotta tell ya. When I read that Silvertwinkie was a moderator over at WBCCI forums, I initially thought "now that is a mistake". So I read some more to see ST dispute it. it seems that you are indeed a moderator at WBCCI. Man, things sure have changed since I was a regular. I never thought the day would come when ST would be identified with anything that had WBCCI in it. Eric, old friend.....you must really have a lot of time to kill. You hang in there guy and keep em straight for me. Till next time. Peace and Happy New Year.

01-01-2010, 08:41 PM	#416
Rhonda Rivet Master     1974 31' Sovereign 1956 26' Cruiser Overlander 1970 23' Safari Lambertville , Michigan Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 684	Originally Posted by Rhonda But remember even Tevye went against tradition to retain what he loved most! He knew times were changing and he didn't want to lose his daughters. Thanks for posting this. It is really a great parallel. Somehow what I wrote isn't showing up on my post so here it is again.

01-02-2010, 05:51 AM	#417
robandzoe Rivet Master     1958 30' Sovereign of the Road Plymouth , New York Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,776 Images: 19	Leisure and Subsidies - nice! You're paying because of the contract your leadership negotiated!!! From the WBCCI President, himself, when I questioned the cost of the rally fee for Gillete and why it's not cheaper since infrastructure was there, and why can't we pay per night. His response: "By contract, for every Airstream that parks at the Cam-Plex facility, I am charged the same price whether they park for 1 or 2 days or for the entire rally. I am not charged on a per night basis. " ********* So, those retired guys who volunteer for 3 weeks get FREE stay subsidized by your rally fee!! Nice huh! ********* More from Tom, "While all utilities are furnished on site, utilities are a fraction of the many costs at an International Convention/Rally. The rally fees have to pay for building use, tables and chairs, microphones for seminar rooms, pipe and drapes, stage and room set-ups, WiFi for our members' use, telephones, golf carts and vehicles for the parkers and purchasing to pickup needed rally supplies, sound and lighting, printing of the Rally Program Booklets and the required liability insurance. Most of the phones that we use are Trac phones, but we will need some hard lines for faxes and such. In Gillette, these will cost us around $150 each. All the International officers and most Region officers use personal cell phones. We rent semi-trucks to move WBCCI trailers with equipment from one site to the next -- Madison to Gillette this year. We must rent fork lifts to unload the cargo trailers and then to reload the trailers at the end of the convention rally. Because of the in-ground utilities in Gillette, we will only need to move one WBCCI trailer rather than the three that were needed in Madison. With the economy, event centers such as Cam-Plex are charging extra for items that in the past were included in base fees. " Part of the enjoyment of an International Convention/Rally is the camaraderie of seeing other people with whom you have worked for years. While the need for early workers on the electric, water, and sanitation crews will be less in Gillette, the parking crew will need to be larger because most of the parking will be back-ins, which requires more time and people. Again, by contract, Com-Plex charges us the same fee for each Airstream parked, whether it is for one day or for twenty-seven days. (No one will be at Cam-Plex for more than twenty-seven days, including the president, who is the first to arrive and the last to leave.)" ************ Backing up, more people.... WE ARE TRAILER OWNERS - can't people back into a spot on their own.... and then, there is your 27 days you're paying for!!! no wonder they lost $103k last year... I'd love to see the contract for this year.. I bet it's an eye opener. Just keep on giving them your $500 or $600 or more for International.... they love it!!! Rob __________________ Rob, Zoe', Stanton, Bryce, Braedon and Finn Baker Do you Listen to the www.theVAP.com Plymouth, NY 13832 https://bakersacresofchenango.blogspot.com/ Courtesy parking Flag Pole Holders - https://robsflagpoleholders.blogspot.com/

01-02-2010, 06:51 AM	#418
robandzoe Rivet Master     1958 30' Sovereign of the Road Plymouth , New York Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,776 Images: 19	You too Leo, You too can join in after your "telephone" booting from the club! Rob __________________ Rob, Zoe', Stanton, Bryce, Braedon and Finn Baker Do you Listen to the www.theVAP.com Plymouth, NY 13832 https://bakersacresofchenango.blogspot.com/ Courtesy parking Flag Pole Holders - https://robsflagpoleholders.blogspot.com/

01-02-2010, 10:00 AM	#419
Ed Emerick Rivet Master     1968 30' Sovereign 1959 18' "Footer" 1954 22' Flying Cloud Brussels , Wisconsin Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 615	Its like the never ending song Originally Posted by 65GT It's January 2nd Everyone!! ...and it's starting to look like a very long goodbye indeed... Hey -- see you later! Hasta la Vista! Auf Wiedersehen! Ser deg senere! ...or maybe the title should have been instead, the long, long, goodbye... Hey -- Regions 1-3 of the all new guide are starting to shape up -- check out the new look! __ Everr been to DW and ride "Its a Small World"? That song goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on....................... __________________ I'm NOT an old man............. Ed 54 Flying Cloud 59 Traveler 68 Sovereign

01-02-2010, 10:11 AM	#420
RickDavis Rivet Master     1961 24' Tradewind 1969 29' Ambassador 1970 21' Globetrotter Jamestown , Tennessee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,783	Originally Posted by Ed Emerick Everr been to DW and ride "Its a Small World"? That song goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on....................... Actually I have, and still can't get that horrible song out of my head after 25 plus years I still go to WBCCI functions hoping it will get better. I have never gone back to Disney World __________________ Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC 61 tradewind, plus a few others 13 Ram 2500 TD 99 Dodge TD 577K miles

[smily]

Just stopped by to check in on the ol gang. I dont get here often anymore but I gotta tell ya.

When I read that Silvertwinkie was a moderator over at WBCCI forums, I initially thought "now that is a mistake". So I read some more to see ST dispute it. it seems that you are indeed a moderator at WBCCI.


Man, things sure have changed since I was a regular.
I never thought the day would come when ST would be identified with anything that had WBCCI in it.


Eric, old friend.....you must really have a lot of time to kill.

You hang in there guy and keep em straight for me.

Till next time.
Peace and Happy New Year.

[Rhonda]

Originally Posted by Rhonda

But remember even Tevye went against tradition to retain what he loved most! He knew times were changing and he didn't want to lose his daughters. Thanks for posting this. It is really a great parallel.

Somehow what I wrote isn't showing up on my post so here it is again.

[robandzoe]

You're paying because of the contract your leadership negotiated!!!

From the WBCCI President, himself, when I questioned the cost of the rally fee for Gillete and why it's not cheaper since infrastructure was there, and why can't we pay per night. His response:

"By contract, for every Airstream that parks at the Cam-Plex facility, I am charged the same price whether they park for 1 or 2 days or for the entire rally. I am not charged on a per night basis. "

*********

So, those retired guys who volunteer for 3 weeks get FREE stay subsidized by your rally fee!! Nice huh!


*********
More from Tom,

"While all utilities are furnished on site, utilities are a fraction of the many costs at an International Convention/Rally. The rally fees have to pay for building use, tables and chairs, microphones for seminar rooms, pipe and drapes, stage and room set-ups, WiFi for our members' use, telephones, golf carts and vehicles for the parkers and purchasing to pickup needed rally supplies, sound and lighting, printing of the Rally Program Booklets and the required liability insurance. Most of the phones that we use are Trac phones, but we will need some hard lines for faxes and such. In Gillette, these will cost us around $150 each. All the International officers and most Region officers use personal cell phones. We rent semi-trucks to move WBCCI trailers with equipment from one site to the next -- Madison to Gillette this year. We must rent fork lifts to unload the cargo trailers and then to reload the trailers at the end of the convention rally. Because of the in-ground utilities in Gillette, we will only need to move one WBCCI trailer rather than the three that were needed in Madison. With the economy, event centers such as Cam-Plex are charging extra for items that in the past were included in base fees. "

Part of the enjoyment of an International Convention/Rally is the camaraderie of seeing other people with whom you have worked for years. While the need for early workers on the electric, water, and sanitation crews will be less in Gillette, the parking crew will need to be larger because most of the parking will be back-ins, which requires more time and people. Again, by contract, Com-Plex charges us the same fee for each Airstream parked, whether it is for one day or for twenty-seven days. (No one will be at Cam-Plex for more than twenty-seven days, including the president, who is the first to arrive and the last to leave.)"

************

Backing up, more people.... WE ARE TRAILER OWNERS - can't people back into a spot on their own.... and then, there is your 27 days you're paying for!!! no wonder they lost $103k last year... I'd love to see the contract for this year.. I bet it's an eye opener.

Just keep on giving them your $500 or $600 or more for International.... they love it!!!

Rob

[robandzoe]

Leo,

You too can join in after your "telephone" booting from the club!

Rob

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by 65GT

It's January 2nd Everyone!!

...and it's starting to look like a very long goodbye indeed...

Hey -- see you later!

Hasta la Vista!

Auf Wiedersehen!

Ser deg senere!

...or maybe the title should have been instead, the long, long, goodbye...

Hey -- Regions 1-3 of the all new guide are starting to shape up -- check out the new look!

__

Everr been to DW and ride "Its a Small World"? That song goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on.......................

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick

Everr been to DW and ride "Its a Small World"? That song goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on.......................

Actually I have, and still can't get that horrible song out of my head after 25 plus years

I still go to WBCCI functions hoping it will get better.
I have never gone back to Disney World