Bob Thompson suspended from WBCCI for expressing his opinions about the IBT

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by purman

I just sent in my Membership to the 4CU to join, I don't think an alternate rally site is as strong as holding an alternate rally within the International rally.. Protest within the International rally.... What are they gonna do Hook up you trailer and tow you out... Thats what tongue locks are for... The Media would really have a hay day with that one.... and the WBCCI would not be able to ignore a hundred protesters within the rally... They could if you were of site....

Great Idea! The "Renegade" Members could all fly a Pirate Flag and mount it to their tow vehicle. There are no rules about flag flying from TVs. Black pirate ball caps (as opposed to blue berets) might also be appropriate. This renegade group could hold its own meetings and events right under the nose of the Almighty Potentate and his minions. The leadership would be hard pressed to do anything about it.

If this type of activity gets talked up here on the Renegade Forums, it might drive the leadership to do some really stupid stuff like start banning certain members from attending the International based upon suspected "Pirate Status". They could even conduct comprehensive searches of all Airstreams and tow vehicles for contraband Pirate paraphernalia. Members could even be banned for speaking or writing the "P" word.

This, I think they would notice.

Brian

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Do you envision an alternate rally to be something like hippies camped out on the White House lawn?

Honestly, based on the tone of your rhetoric, that is what I envisioned that you envision.

I do not support the actions of the EC and would be happy to participate in a public display that does not get in the way of the pleasure and enjoyment of the event. I say this because I think it is important that we demonstrate to the IBT and the rest of the club the "Just camping... Let's have Fun" way to Airstream.

Tom's suggestion of t-shirts or up-side-down unit flags would sure send a message. What I can envision is the impact of the rally grounds dominated by bright orange shirts in support of resolving these issues without the use of disciplinary actions.

"Support the Inalienable Right to Camp"

[wheel interested]

IBT won't care you protest, how long have we been protesting? Aside from vedettas and being black listed and referred to disparagingly if not chastised at the meetings, there would be little impact upon them. When's the last time you had a leader come walk over to your trailer and shoot the breeze in your relagated segregated corner of the rally earth? Money and press is the ticket. Status and funding is paramount to them. Are we teenagers dressing to rebel or conscious raising encounter groups talking to ourselves? We have real options as shareholders and can demonstrate firm resolve with authority and dignity.

Messages have been sent as clearly noted by the retaliation. Members can't have their umbrella of protection and comfort zones left undisturbed and in tact AND show they are serious. Might just as well keep murmurring here with little to no effect. And THAT's exactly what keeps the IBT in power, members who agree in principal but won't risk or give anything up. Bob and Leo ACTED on behalf of the club at risk of their own perill. THAT's what stepping up and effecting change is. You must show the strength of your convictions. What did I hear last night? A mother's advice after her son was bullied and chased home, "go back out and bloody your nose so you can walk down the street tomorrow." You must be willing to back up your own beliefs or you basically just invited the IBT to regard your efforts as throwing a tantrum and being disobedient and you will get sent back to your room admonished afterwards. We are not to be treated as petulant children.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by byamcaravanner

Honestly, based on the tone of your rhetoric,

"Support the Inalienable Right to Camp"

Well Steve, Based on you rhetoric I heard...

[Aage]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

What do you folks think about this?

I am Not a member of the WBCCI, or even an owner of an AS (yet!), but I will submit my humble observation for what it's worth.

It reads very much as a direct attack on the Mr. Collins mentioned, with a lot of unclear statements that lack a coherent proof.

In other words, too much judgemental emotion, not enough hard facts and logical arguments. For example, where is a call to action; what is the reader to do?

I also find the baseball analogy a poor attempt to cover up the personalization of the diatribe. The writer puts himself in the position of an umpire, which is ludicrous given his insulting, churlish tone.

But that's just me...

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by 65GT

To me, Bob is worth it...

__

And, it isn't solely "What About Bob?" It is each and every equal member that is worth it! Even those that will not or cannot speak. Bob and Leo are just the first to be recognized as acting to make a difference, the FIRST to make the IBT take notice and fear more of the same will threaten their iron grip!

[dufferin]

So what do you think about what Jim Franklin said :

“Jim Franklin, Arizona Unit. I think Mr. Carson has touched upon a problem this club has been struggling with for quite a while. People on the AirstreamForum, people on the blog - ah, they seem to be unhappy being members.”
“They have driven away more members than what many of our membership crew have been able to obtain. And I think that ah, the solutions that region presidents and unit members need to look at - we need to think about ah, quality instead of quantity.”
“And ah, of course everyone has freedom of speech and we respect that.”
“But people that continually tear down the club, or attack the executive board and the membership and ah, if they have something constructive to have, ah, to do, I think that the board will certainly listen to it.”
“But people that are continually tearing down the club and being destructive, and they're unhappy. I think we need to be selective in our memberships and start looking at a way of terminating their membership and let them go find a place that they are happy.”

Originally Posted by Aage

I am Not a member of the WBCCI, or even an owner of an AS (yet!), but I will submit my humble observation for what it's worth.

It reads very much as a direct attack on the Mr. Collins mentioned, with a lot of unclear statements that lack a coherent proof.

In other words, too much judgemental emotion, not enough hard facts and logical arguments. For example, where is a call to action; what is the reader to do?

I also find the baseball analogy a poor attempt to cover up the personalization of the diatribe. The writer puts himself in the position of an umpire, which is ludicrous given his insulting, churlish tone.

But that's just me...

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick

The problem is that this won't draw 100s of people, the group at the International won't notice and it won't make an economic impact at all.

Maybe, maybe not. You're certainly correct that inertia is the overwhelming force in human affairs.

But I wonder if WBCCI hasn't reached a tipping point. The suspension of a Region President and probably soon-to-be expulsion of a Unit President for vocally opposing the policies of the ruling class is unprecedented. They have crossed a line.

If Captain Larson doesn't see the rocks ahead and ring All Astern soon, we might want to start sauntering toward the lifeboats.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by dufferin

So what do you think about what Jim Franklin said :

I think he needs a grievance filed against him, that's what I think.

This whole group of bosses ran this as military tribunal, hey guys you’re not in the military anymore.

Moreover, this appears to be dictatorship.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Try running from the floor some time. You'll get your eyes opened as to how this game is really played. Don't worry about getting elected -- nobody has a hope in hell of getting past this system. Go ahead, give it a shot, you've got nothing to win (seriously)...

Leo's correct, I was there!

[bredlo]

Originally Posted by 65GT

I really love the Switzerland sentiment. I believe it is truly honest and sincere. Unfortunately, I think France tried to operate under this premise once. As a matter of fact, so did the US, until Pearl Harbor.

No, not in the same light, not even close, I know... Yet there are members that care about the club, for its history, for its original connection with Airstream itself, for all the great history that we never got to be a part of. We've watched our International Leadership fail year after year, and for each year of failure they make some desperate move, or double up on their control, and now, finally, we operate in the red. This will be year two of their helpless demise. When will they give it up and just walk away? There are plenty of members that clearly see what is wrong and how to fix it. There are far more than SEVEN that could pick up the ball tomorrow and make it right...

As a member, you could sit on the side-lines and watch Germany march across Europe. Yeah, I know, not in the same light -- but one hell of a an analogy!

__

No argument here about standing up and fighting for what's right... it's usually the issue of which battles to pick that causes problems.

This could very well be a battle worth fighting. Old club, lots of history, lots of emotional involvement, and meaningful to lots of people for it's reputation of building friendships and bringing people together.

But to a complete outsider like myself - it all sounds less like beating back the Nazis... and more like old men fighting over how many visitor parking permits are allowed at their Florida retirement community.

Regardless, I hope the right people can help out - we're attending our first rally in October so perhaps at that point I'll feel that I need to pick a side.

[wheel interested]

Brad and I were planning on attending the International Rally in Madison with both our trailers, but I would much rather pay my dues and homage to the alternative Independence Day Rally if it comes together!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by joecolao

Apparently there is no such confidentiality clause in the By-Law of WBCCI.
My understanding is that it has just been created so the facts can be kept from the membership, or our IP is getting wrong information from others.

Actually, confidentiality in disciplinary matters is not to be found in the WBCCI Blue Book, but is to be found in Robert's Rules of Order. The basis for maintaining confidentiality is to protect the organization from liability.

Why? A "trial" in an organization is not the same as one that takes place in a court of law. Under Roberts Rules hearsay is acceptable for instance, and the burden of proof is on the defendant. Organizations are required to have "due process" but that process is very informal, and allows as evidence things that a court of law never would.

In explaining this, please don't think that I'm defending the practice. I'm simply offering it as the explanation. What I find funny is that the IBT and IP only know that it is just "standard operating procedure." They have never really understood Roberts Rules, and I think they hate it as much as many people on this thread do, but because of their misunderstanding they continue to make mistakes with it and give Robert's Rules a bad name.

THE mistake they've made with Thompson is that expulsion of a member is supposed to be a LAST RESORT, and according to Robert's Rules is only to be resorted to for the most egregious offense - not to muzzle protest. The bottom line is that the Executive Committee has reached into the toolbox of rules and brought out the sledge hammer to "fix" a delicate situation. Of course, in so doing, have made things worse (for them I think).

[LI Pets]

Good points Forest, can you cite the section of Roberts Rules that speaks to that please.

Also Bob was suspended not expelled, that make any difference?

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Good points Forest, can you cite the section of Roberts Rules that speaks to that please.

Also Bob was suspended not expelled, that make any difference?

There is actually an entire chapter - Chapter XX Disciplinary Procedures - specifically pp 630 through 643.

A suspension for a year is simply a temporary expulsion, whereas expulsion itself has the connotation of being permanent. Either pronouncement has the effect of removing the member from the society.

[2airishuman]

an alternate rally is a great idea and WOULD BE a powerful statement.

for those of you who think the wb' wouldn't notice, THINK AGAIN.
__________________________________________________ _____________
a small forum group of 10-11 trailers (not protesting) camped 35 miles from salem 7/1-7/4 3 years ago.

i pulled up stakes from the pit in salem and joined them in the forrest, near the waterfalls.

just camping folks and it was really nice.

well "news" of this other rally hit the international EXACTLY as it was happening.

friendly folks drove up to visit us, of course DAY PASSES into the silver falls rally site were FREE...

eventually 2 "wb' officers" wearing officer garb, "accidentally wandered" into our camping area....

which was secluded on a dead end park road with NO services...

they won't get out of the cars to chat, when invited to join us,

but wondered "WHY" we'd wanna camp in up in the mountains, when the action was in salem.

one of the officers noted that there were MORE vintage bambis in our little group that in the 1000 down in the pit.
_________________________________________________

so an ALT RALLY is a great idea, would be LOTSZ of fun and they would definitely feel the pinch money wise...

but i doubt it will really take shape and HAPPEN.

what i read here is some posturing and threats by a couple of p.o.'d "OFFICER TYPES"...

thIS tempest will be contained, the bobbleheads will back off, and this revolt will blow over just like this one did...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

so if ya REALLY WANT an ALTERNATE RALLY, start planning really PLANNING it and watch the fun!

cheers
2air'

[hampstead38]

I have worked in municipal government for the past decade. People dislike Robert's Rules because it is a playground for pedants. (Trust me on this). I have served on (and chaired) numerous boards, commission and governing bodies. My standing recommendation is to adopt a greatly simplified set of rules of order. It doesn't take Robert's Rules to have civil and productive meetings. In fact, when the business of the body becomes procedural nitpicking, pretty much all hope is lost.

As for "change," it's always about the nickels and dime (if you'll forgive a bad pun). If the WBCCI is truly running in the red, the best way to effect change is to further diminish the revenue stream. The WBCCI doesn't exist in some alternative universe where money doesn't matter. They need to pay their bills like any other organization. The larger the deficit, the greater the pressure.

My wife and I are new "vintage" Airstream owners. We haven't joined WBCCI so I don't have a dog in this fight. We bought our Airstream for recreational use. Rule books, parliamentary procedures and political infighting... that feels like work, not fun.

[Ed Emerick]

So let me get this straight!

A guy gets suspended (and will not talk or post about it because he will get thrown out of the club) and a number of you want to cripple the club. By “doing the math” and sending a very strong message, a financially crippling message, it’s OK to try to kill the WBCCI? Is that what Bob really wants? If he doesn’t care about the WBCCI then why don’t I see him posting his side? Why? He doesn’t want to leave the club that’s why! Sanctioning an event that could hurt the WBCCI financially and cause the club to fail (I really don’t think that is possible) just doesn’t make sense, does it Bob?

Now lets call this what it really is: This is a reaction by a group that can’t seem to find a way to work the system and are getting frustrated. Frustrated to the point that if you can’t play in the big boy’s sandbox then let’s pee in it so no one else can play either.

Boy, from a group wearing blue berets in Bozeman to wanting to kill my club that is sure a big 180!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not impressed with the actions of the IBT over the past years either, but this is getting really old. What will be the next reason to start a “New Club”? Me, I can’t see any reason to support the IBT at this point but I’m not going to support ANY effort to kill MY club. Keep focused folks; these old guys aren’t going anywhere and neither are those who want change. But what about us who want to go to a WBCCI function, sit under our awnings and drink beer with our friends? All this talk and threats could take that away from me, but in reality I don’t think so. Chill folks it’s only a hobby!

[rgesch]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

thIS tempest will be contained, the bobbleheads will back off, and this revolt will blow over just like this one did...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

well, it didn't exactly "blow over"

and from what i can see, as far as the type of goings-on which caused that thread to be started over two years ago, nothing has changed

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick

Boy, from a group wearing blue berets in Bozeman to wanting to kill my club that is sure a big 180!

Ed,

Nobody is trying to kill the WBCCI. It's just that, like the old farmer said when he whopped his mule up 'side the head with a two by four, "Before they'll listen, you have to get their attention."