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Old 01-05-2010, 10:41 AM   #21
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Due to the deep freeze we are experiencing in the MidWest, we will not be attending the January 10th luncheon, but instead driving as far south that day as we are able to get.

We have copied the issues raised in this thread onto a document, and sent them via email to our Unit President.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:01 AM   #22
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Forrest is right, it won't do much good to bring a technical amendment to the meeting until and unless it's been approved by a region.

What would help, though, is if the same motion were approved and sent forward by a whole bunch of regions. This isn't going to happen that fast, but it would certainly be worth the effort to shoot for summer.


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Old 01-05-2010, 11:23 AM   #23
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Forrest, Have you sent this to the constitution & bylaws chairman? As soon as it is cleared it will be at a rally and in our newsletter.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:32 PM   #24
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Forrest, Have you sent this to the constitution & bylaws chairman? As soon as it is cleared it will be at a rally and in our newsletter.
This question keeps popping up. No, I haven't and likely won't.

First off, WBCCI HQ is required to send a copy of the amendment to the C&B committee after it has passed both Unit and its region vote. This has to be done prior to distributing it to all the other Regions and respective Units. The C&B committee's recommendations are then sent out with the amendment.

Second, this isn't my first rodeo and I discussed the concept with a former International Parliamentarian quite some time ago. Motions that die along the way do so because they are poorly worded, haven't fulfilled all the requirements as outlined in the constitution, etc.

Third, what do you think the C&B committee is going to say, anyway? They will say how much it is going to cost to implement, how it will make the IBT less effective, how it may have unintended and unforseeable negative consequences, etc, etc. They will NOT say that this is a wonderful idea, AND finally, they will NOT give it any recommendation of APPROVAL. They will recommend that the membership vote NO.

Fourth, don't you think they have already read the amendment? Of course they have, and all the EC and IBT and C&B will do is quietly conspire with each other on how to defeat it. If they wanted to discuss it before hand, with the idea of making it better, of making it more palatable, don't you think that at least one of them would have joined the discussion by now? If not here, then on the WBCCI member forums where it has also been posted?

Seriously, do any of you think there is an International officer or a committee appointee that will embrace the proposal? Why in God's name would they? It's designed to shift control of the organization from them to the membership. Not a one of them will have anything good to say about it, so why bother?
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:06 AM   #25
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This seems to be a parallel universe, and all so disheartening.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:15 AM   #26
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It is disheartening that there is no reciprocity, or dialog. That is the problem with the WBCCI in a nutshell. It is why people like Rob Baker have given up being members. However, it is a problem not just with the WBCCI. It is an experience that likely all RV associations (or any association for that matter) has or will have. That is why I don't agree with Rob's action. A new club will grow and prosper because initially it will have inclusivity, but later, exclusivity will creep in and the result will be dissension and controversy over rules and control issues. It seems inevitable.

I see Rob as having exercised the exit option. That option is the one RVer's use when they don't like their neighbors. They start the engine and drive to a different place. I believe he has used the exit option because it is worse to be ignored than to be hated. To keep from being ignored, members such as Leo get louder and more abrasive. He has escalated the conflict to the point where the WBCCI leadership can't ignore him and so think they can eliminate the conflict by simply removing him and other "malcontents." As Leo points out though, he won't let up just because of that.

Conflict can be dreary and tiring, but it isn’t always a bad thing. Sometimes it’s necessary.

For a really good read on this, check out the book, Over The Next Hill by Dorothy and David Counts, particularly Chapter Nine. Here’s a quote to give you an example:

“Anger is a powerful indication of engagement between people, the very opposite of indifference. It may be regarded as the most dramatic proof of responsiveness and caring .... It is a basic form of remaining attached. And among people who are not inevitably bound together, anger may become a refutation of the possibility of separation. Anger is a form of social cohesion, and a strong and reliable one. To fight with each other, people must share norms, rules, vocabulary, and knowledge. Fighting is a partnership, requiring cooperation. A boundary-maintaining mechanism -- for strangers cannot participate fully - it is also above all a profoundly sociable activity.”
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:08 AM   #27
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Rather comforting to read, Forrest. Thank you.

Will put that book on our "must-read" list.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:38 PM   #28
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Leo,
I sent a grievance bylaw to the CBL Chairman directly and also through Cindy Reed back in September asking for review and language approval. Cindy told me that she forwarded her copy to the CBL Chairman. The CBL Chairman has yet to acknowledge that he even received the proposed bylaw. In my opinion, this is inexcusable, unprofessional and rude.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:37 AM   #29
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The information I sent to our officers the other day received a positive response and expressed interest in addressing within the Club.

I sent on to them this morning the proposed amendment on the grievance process.

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Old 01-07-2010, 05:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
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“Anger is a powerful indication of engagement between people, the very opposite of indifference. It may be regarded as the most dramatic proof of responsiveness and caring .... It is a basic form of remaining attached. And among people who are not inevitably bound together, anger may become a refutation of the possibility of separation. Anger is a form of social cohesion, and a strong and reliable one. To fight with each other, people must share norms, rules, vocabulary, and knowledge. Fighting is a partnership, requiring cooperation. A boundary-maintaining mechanism -- for strangers cannot participate fully - it is also above all a profoundly sociable activity.”
That is very interesting. Thanks for posting it Forrest. I do believe you can aggressively challenge one another and persist in disagreeing because of different beliefs and that does not set either up to be ascribed as enemies or diminish either. There has been a lot of negative talk, about negative talk, and that has been directed, most often, at those who want change, and find the current club governance methods to be lacking in efficiency. Rather than issues being addressed of why the status quo should remain intact, the usual dialog is to be told to be quiet and stop badmouthing the club, pretty much the exact same approach that I found years ago at the beginning of my club experience and continues down through this day. But I still don't agree with that. If something is worth defending then it could easily be debated and stand up on its own merit through scrutiny. The other is covert and defensive and based upon individuals and groupings rather than a review of matters subject by subject.

And again, thank you Forrest. I wish the impact of those words you quoted would resonate and be accepted by everyone and bring clashers together where they belong instead of sending them home taking their ball with them, which amounts to many members each and every year. Failure is not making mistakes, failure is giving up, whether that be in quitting or in silencing others. We need to keep vigilant at moving the club forward. Communication is and was key to success. We need to be good forgivers.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:39 PM   #31
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If something is worth defending then it could easily be debated and stand up on its own merit through scrutiny. The other is covert and defensive and based upon individuals and groupings rather than a review of matters subject by subject... Failure is not making mistakes, failure is giving up, whether that be in quitting or in silencing others. We need to keep vigilant at moving the club forward. Communication is and was key to success...
Carol and Forrest,

You both offer
wonderfully high-minded insight. I find it impossible to see parallels between club goings on and real world geopolitical situations. On the geo scale there are several basic approaches to affecting change - diplomacy, non-involvement, embargos, or war. Regarding the WBCCI it appears the same is occurring - diplomacy which hopefully involves affecting change from within - and trade embargo, which in this case equates to your reference of taking my and all of my friends ball and going home. Essentially a boycott as way of affecting change.

Some of this years motions offer changes that will nudge the club in the right direction, sans the "Leo" motions. I hold no hope for good news to come from the mid-winter meetings. However, I think a concerted effort to raise the volume of dissent at International will go a long way towards eventually balancing the books while providing awesome cocktail chatter all week long.

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Old 02-23-2010, 01:43 AM   #32
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Submitting to IBT

Forrest, there are deadlines for getting this on the agenda at IBT.
I had inquired about submitting proposals for amendments and these are the dates to work with.

"The filing deadlines stand in the way of putting a matter before the Delegates Meeting this year (March 1 deadline) or before the June 26th IBT meeting (May 1 deadline). The deadline for the July 5th IBT could be more manageable, it's June 30th."

Can you make either deadline?
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:56 AM   #33
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Forrest, there are deadlines for getting this on the agenda at IBT.
I can't get this on the IBT's agenda by deadline time, but then I never intended to. Putting the motion before the IBT would be non-productive, they are not going to approve it. Instead, the motion will go directly to the Units for ratification, and the one-year deadline for that will not start until the motion comes out of my region. The total timeline I'm looking at is over a year.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:27 PM   #34
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Keep us posted, Forrest.


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Old 02-24-2010, 04:20 AM   #35
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Changes

Forrest, why not take your concept to your Unit, get more support and modify to the best presentation, then take it to IBT?

I know of a few members who are working similar issues in this manner. Go to your Unit and present the idea. Get the amendment voted in at that level and then push it up to Region and IBT. It's worth the effort. So what if it takes a year? You should get it rolling.

Good luck.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:20 AM   #36
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Thumbs up I believe the ball is already rolling in his Unit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Forrest recently got the EC of his Unit (DENCO) to approve the forwarding of his motion to the Unit members. It was published in their last newsletter and the Unit membership will now have a chance to vote on it at their meeting in May. From there it will go to the other units in Region 11 and if it passes then to all the other regions.

Do I have this right Forrest?
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:31 AM   #37
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Awesome

Forrest, that's awesome. Good luck with it.
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:52 AM   #38
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Forrest recently got the EC of his Unit (DENCO) to approve the forwarding of his motion to the Unit members. It was published in their last newsletter and the Unit membership will now have a chance to vote on it at their meeting in May. From there it will go to the other units in Region 11 and if it passes then to all the other regions.

Do I have this right Forrest?
Yes, you have it right, the amendment is moving forward, slowly, but surely.
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:11 AM   #39
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Forrest, Keep us posted so we can make sure our Region units get to vote on it. I do not want it to die at the region level.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:29 PM   #40
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Is there any reason this can not be put in the table at other Unit business meetings from the floor or is it the case that the Unit or region executive committee needs to "give permission"

Quote:
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I have been asked to provide specifics regarding how, what, and when a change in the club can be made. Here is just one proposal for anyone’s consideration, or use. It is possible that this motion or one like it could make it in time for the Delegates to cast votes at the International Rally this June, 2010. However, time is fast running out. Otherwise, the soonest it can be acted on will be in 2011. Here is the wording of a motion that I believe must be made if the membership is to ever have a voice in the running of the Club:

I MOVE to STRIKE from the WBCCI Constitution, Sec. 4 of ARTICLE IX, BOARD OF TRUSTEES and in its place INSERT, under ARTICLE XII, DELEGATES MEETINGS, the words, “The Delegates shall have full authority to construe and interpret the Club’s Constitution and annually review and/or repeal any Club Bylaw and/or Policy.”

RATIONALE:

Currently, ARTICLE XV, BYLAWS AND POLICY, Sec. 1 provides that, “Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Constitution embodying additional provisions for the government of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc., may be adopted by the Board of Trustees.”

In addition, the Constitution, under Sec. 4 of ARTICLE IX, BOARD OF TRUSTEES, provides that, “The Board of Trustees shall have full authority to construe and interpret the Club's Constitution and Bylaws and Policy and may delegate this authority to its Constitution and Bylaws Committee.”

These two sections of the Constitution create an imbalance of authority in the Club. It is improper for a society governed by parliamentary procedure and democratic principles to allow one governing body to create bylaws and then determine if those bylaws are consistent with its given constitutional authority. In effect, this allows the Board of Trustees to review and audit its own efficiency, effectiveness, accuracy, and appropriateness of action.

An audit process by definition is an assessment typically carried out by an independent review. Since it is in the Board’s own interest to approve its own actions, an impartial review is unlikely and improbable. Therefore, the Delegates, who directly carry with them the interests and instructions of the membership, are best suited to review and/or repeal actions taken by the Board of Trustees.

It should be noted that this motion continues to allow the Board of Trustees the right to create bylaw and policy. It simply changes how those bylaws and policies are reviewed and audited.
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