A Modest Proposal

[Boondocker]

I have the best defense plan against liability claims: near poverty. You would have to be one broke lawyer to come after me.

[Foiled Again]

Airstream HAS abandoned the WBCCI and is not showing up or supporting the International. Ha-hem. THINK

I hope that the WBCCI can gag down the notion that there is a generational shift and that they will have to choose to dive in or become extinct.

My "Modest Proposal" (nod to Jonathan Swift) is that the alternative rally REALLY happen and that WE invite Airstream Corporate. They've clearly been trying to send smoke signals to WBCCI... with little or no result. If they showed up at the alternate rally that would have to cause massive diarrhea at the IBT - from all those sticks being expelled simultaneously

[norsea]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

This is both a good, and an awkward question. If we are going to actually form a club, under whatever name, then it should be incorporated and should have liability insurance.

<BIG SNIPPY>

Hi Nuvi,

I'm the Jim that Carol referred to in her post, above.

Fasten your seat belts folks, this is going to be the first of several posts from me.

In this post I would like to address incorporation and why bylaws and Articles of Incorporation are needed for a social club.

As I have stated in several posts in other threads, I am convinced the propblems within the WBCCI stem from the structure of the organization. So, based on your opening post in this thread I belive that we are in vehiment agreement on this issue.

I have been involved with lots of mutual benefit domestic non profit corporations over the years. Some with $20 million dollar annual budgets and offices in three different contries. I have NEVER (strong word) seen more than 15 pages of bylaws.

Now, having said all that, I understand why the WBCCI is structured the way it is.

The first part is Wally. He created the organization to aid him in the marketing of his product. The free publicity that he was able to sustain through the auspices of the club is incredible. He was a marketing genius ahead of his time.

Part of the problem with the WBCCI is that it is so large (74 pages of bylaws) and has three levels of management (IBT/REGIONS/Units). As a result, very few of the members understand how the organization works (bylaws wise).

My objective is to create an organization in which EVERY MEMBER understands how it works and why. Not that they really want to know but it should be simple enough that everyone can understand it without having to spend hours devouring bylaws. 12 pages of bylaws is a LOT. more than that and I get concerned about it. I can live with 15 pages. NO MORE.

And yes, you are absolutely correct about the need for incorporation. The objective of incorporation is to protect the personal assets of the membership/officers. And, incorporating as a non profit organization saves lots of expenses on TAXES.

I learned about the tax issues with non profits organizations the hard way. It all started when a club I belonged to was told by the state franchise tax board that the clubs' non profit status had been revoked and that we owed tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. The feds were right on their heels when they heard of the revocation of our status by the state.

Needless to say this was a disaster. The organization was doomed to collapse unless someone got involved in all the "legalese" and learned what to do to fix the problem. I am NOT and have never been associated in any way with the legal profession. I have learned the hard way about non profit organizations and what is needed to ensure safe operations in the eyes of the tax people. And it is the tax people that are the key to continued acceptable operations.

And, make no mistake about it, bylaws are the heart and soul of any organization. They are required for incorporation as well as Articles of Incorporation (or equivalent). And it is also required to state in the bylaws how the meetings that the organization will be conducted; by this I mean what the method of governance will be. Like it or not, that means Roberts Rules of Order. I have yet to encounter bylaws that mention any other system. I am only aware of one other method for meeting governance and that is the set of rules written adopted and in use by the United Nations.

The process of incorporation is not difficult and does not require the involvement of anyone in the legal profession in most states. The key is to incorporate in a state that does not require the organization to maintain an office in the state. Not having to have a physical office is a great cost savings.

Usually when the organization is incorporated officers for the first term of office are stipulated in the Articles of Incorporation with a statement that they will be replaced per the terms in the bylaws dealing with the election of officers on a certain date in the future; usually coincident with the annual meeting of the organization.

My next post will be what I would propose for a structure for a club that would encompass North America.

Jim

[markdoane]

We need a different name. When 100,000 people riding Harleys show up in Sturgis, do you think that Harley Davidson gets all wound up about their liability?

No. Everyone know it's "Stugis", not the "Annual Harley Davidson Owners Reunion and Hell Raising Event".

So lets just call it "Jack". We can even call the annual rally "Big Jack" and each region or unit rally can be called Little Jack or Jack North, or Central Jack, or Madison Jack, or FCJack, or FlapJack.

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by markdoane

We need a different name. When 100,000 people riding Harleys show up in Sturgis, do you think that Harley Davidson gets all wound up about their liability?

No. Everyone know it's "Stugis", not the "Annual Harley Davidson Owners Reunion and Hell Raising Event".

So lets just call it "Jack". We can even call the annual rally "Big Jack" and each region or unit rally can be called Little Jack or Jack North, or Central Jack, or Madison Jack, or FCJack, or FlapJack.

I hear George Carlin's ghost taking "Jack" to several other levels.

Call it "Bob".

Paula

[norsea]

As promised here comes my second post about a proposed structre for an Airstream club that will encompass North America.

My vision is two fold. First, I would like to see a national (North American) organization that is a stand alone entity. People who want to can join. The ONLY requirement for membership is that the proposed member wishes to further the better interests of the organization. NOTHING else.

I do NOT see regions/units as a part of this organization.

I do see lots of small, localized clubs (like the WBCCI units) that are stand alone entities. They get to do what they want, when they want, how they want and why they want. They have their own bylaws and Articles of Incorporation. They cannot tell this national organization what to do and the national organization cannot tell them what to do. Completely separate entities.

Second, I see these local clubs having the option of being chartered clubs of the national organization IF they want to be aligned with a national organization.

It is the national organization that I would like to build. I do NOT see the national organization dictating anything to the local clubs. I see the national organization establishing some guidelines that a local club would have to meet in in order to become affiliated with the national organization. One of these would be that the local clubs are incorporated as stand alone entities so they in no way can be viewed as being a part of the national organization; they are stand alone entities with their own funding/officers/members, etc., etc.

To have a voice in the national organization you have to be a member of the national organization. Membership in the national organization is completely separate from membership in the local club. Yes, this means that you would have to pay dues to your local club and to the national organization IF you want to be a member of the national organization.

This way the national organization has to provide something of benefit to its members AND its affiliated clubs if it is to survive; for example, it is much more cost effective for a national organization to purchase liability insurance that will cover the activities of its affiliated clubs. The intent is for the national organization to be an organization where all of the local clubs can come together. An Annual National Rally would be nice. As would caravans among the charted clubs. Joint rally's by the chartered clubs would also be nice.

Everything I will write about will relate ONLY to the national organization.

First I would like to see the national organization make extremely good use of the internet and the club web site. I see the web site being the focal point for the organization. The history of the club should be maintained on the web site for anyone who access the site to see. But, there should be parts of the web site that are exclusive to the membership. One of the things that I would like to see in the members only section is a mechanism for members to vote. Doing this on line save postage expense and/or travel expense to a meeting. And it means that everyone should always be able to vote. Oh yes, if you are a member you get to vote.

My objective is to create an organization were participation is extremely easy. For example, if you would like to run for a position as an officer or director you should be able to put yourself forward with no need for anyone else to select/recommend you. The objective should be to make it as easy as can be for people to get involved to whatever degree they so desire.

I see a monthly newsletter being posted in PDF format on the web site. Read it there. Or, if you must have a copy download it. This save tremendous expenses on postage and printing.

What I would really like to see is the organization conduct all business by way of the web site. This means NO US Mail. Yes, this may well exclude some people. But it will keep the cost of membership at a very low level and reduces the work load for the officers. And, having said that, we are in the 21st Century. Snail mail and paper costs are getting to be a major burden for most organizations. I realize this will be a contentions issue for many.

What I have put forth here is but the tip of the iceberg.

It has been suggested that I ask Andy for a sub forum to move forward with these ideas. What do y'all think about this?

I am open to suggestion. I am in no way saying that what I have proposed here is "the way it should be". I view this as a starting point with lots of work needed to ensure that what gets created is what people want.

I would like my task for this endeavor to be that of a facilitator. I want to bring people who care about doing something like this together. I can provide some level of expertise about document development and getting the organization over the incorporation hurdles.

I do have a preliminary set of bylaws that we have been working on. Personally I think it is a bit too premature to start working on bylaws but I do think that it would be nice to start working on geting peoples ideas and thoughts documented so these ideas and thoughts can be discussed by anyone who so desires.

Now that the cat is out of the bag I guess it is no longer necessary for anyone to contact me by PM as I have been asking in my other posts.

Having said that, I do believe that PM's are really NOT the way to do this. Transparency should be the key so that everyone knows what is being discussed and there are no "hidden agendas", etc., etc.

So, what do y'all think?

Jim

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

I hear George Carlin's ghost taking "Jack" to several other levels.

Call it "Bob".

Paula

Won't happen. Carlin's mentor and partner was Jack Burns. He would never disrespect the man who spent the night in jail with him. For a bank robbery.

Besides, Jack sounds better than Jackson, or Jackson Center. Or Bob.

[norsea]

The last item I would like to write about for now is the name of a club.

Personally I do not care what the name of the new club is.

I am sensitive to the use of Wally's name in anything that we chose to do. There is a club in Wally's name and we should honor it, in my not so humble opinion.

I do not have a problem with the use of the Airstream name in the club name. It does seem that having the Airstream name in the club name, like the VAC does, makes the organization instantly recognizable.

To date I have been swapping email with Doug Froh, Director of Marketing for Airstream, about obtaining permission from Airstream to use the Airstream name as part of a name for a new club. I will be in Jackson Center next month and he and I will be discussing this up front, live and in person.

Now, having said that, this does NOT mean that a name has been selected OR that Airsteam will be or should be in the name of the new club. My intent is to obtain permission to use the Airstream name should WE decide that this is what WE want to do. From my perspective, the more options that we have available to us the more freedom we have in developing a name.

Jim

[Minnie's Mate]

I, personally, like having the name "Airstream" in the name of the club. That way, some time down the road, we can't have some overzealous S.O.B. deciding we need SOB's in the club.

After all, isn't this new club supposed to be for Airstream product owners? If not, count me out.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Are you an attorney or otherwise have expert knowledge of these matters, or are you just reciting "what everyone knows"?

No just saying what everyone knows...well, evidently not everyone.

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

I have no expert knowledge of the subject but I have reason to believe you're wrong on both counts.

Maybe I am. Try it and see. Better yet, name it "The Martin Luther King, Jr. Camping Club" and see if you don't have name infringement issues. Or name it after me and all you'll have to do is pay me a percentage of the annual dues. Point is, if you don't name it after yourself, you have to have a legal agreement to do so or you are open to law suits.

[Bing-Bing]

My wife and I feel its time for a new club as we will not send money to the WBCCI who have little or no respect for their members. IMHO. We are willing to help with the work of getting the club started as well as paying up to $50.00 per year to be members. We would like to join the Denver unit, Four Corners or North Texas units but not if it means sending money to the WBCCI. We wondered if the new club could be done thru Andy and Airforums?. Norsea seems to have a handle on this and I like the idea of every member having a vote. I just wondered tho could I buy more votes or maybe trade my vote for say alcohol??.....

[wheel interested]

Of course Airstream in the name is a real boon to a start-up club for Airstreamers that's for certain. That's fast work Jim!

Just toying with ideas for a name, if we don't simply go with keeping it simple and highly identifiable which truly is a great way to go, we might even go symbolic with something of meaning. Not this or these but just the idea of having a thought towards reaching for something unique.

This new club is rising from the ashes like a Phoenix. A phoenix is a mythical bird with a tail of beautiful gold and red plumage (or purple and blue, by some sources ). It has a 1,000 year life-cycle, and near the end the phoenix builds itself a nest of cinnamon twigs that it then ignites; both nest and bird burn fiercely and are reduced to ashes, from which a new, young phoenix or phoenix egg arises, reborn anew to live again. The new phoenix is destined to live as long as its old self.

Just for example if someone is talented in graphics they might try their hand at coat of arms or symbols that represent whatever name is chosen. Of course Airstream icons are always in fashion. A globe like Wally's and Airstream's is rather nostalgic. Let's persue ideas in different directions, a traditional clearly identifiable name and a unique creative name. But I did like flap Jack. Perhaps a funny tongue-in-cheek name would be quite appropriate for a recreational club! Maybe we should run a contest.

[Mikethefixit]

I said Id join a new club,but now we are back talkin bout rules and by-laws and presidents and treasurers and it will go back to what already exists excluding anyone who hasn't yet experienced owning an AS but wants too. Its supposed to be about campin an fun and adventure.
We attended a rally in Mich where everyone was welcome and it Worked.
I don't think we want to join any club now

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Mikethefixit

I said Id join a new club,but now we are back talkin bout rules and by-laws and presidents and treasurers and it will go back to what already exists excluding anyone who hasn't yet experienced owning an AS but wants too. Its supposed to be about campin an fun and adventure.
We attended a rally in Mich where everyone was welcome and it Worked.
I don't think we want to join any club now

I think the litiginous country in which we live will preclude a simple club with few rules, and no officers. Maybe the best, and least "vulnerable" way to have a bunch of us go camping, is to continue advertising and participating in forums rallies and functions.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

...This new club is rising from the ashes like a Phoenix...

how about combining this birthing moment image....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...led-18473.html

(and the leadership can be seen in post 17 of the above thread)...

with the campfire image here (also see post 97 up to 100) and the hats work too!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/show...&postcount=100

and there IS a good name suggested in the very last post in that thread...

or opt for...

i.a.a.m.c.c.*

cheers
2air'

[LI Pets]

Jim don't take this the wrong way but you're getting ahead of your self talking about the structure of a Airstream club.

You're an Airstream owner what about a year?
With less than 100 posts

There are many people here that you should be getting input from before you post your ideas.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Jim don't take this the wrong way but you're getting ahead of your self talking about the structure of the club.

You're an Airstream owner what about a year?
With less than 100 posts

There are many people here that you should be getting input from before you post your ideas.

I agree, if you haven't had an AS for 40 years you shouldn't voice an opinion.

(Goes an undisclosed location to pop popcorn and watch the show)

[cosmotini]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Jim don't take this the wrong way but you're getting ahead of your self talking about the structure of a Airstream club.

You're an Airstream owner what about a year?
With less than 100 posts

There are many people here that you should be getting input from before you post your ideas.

He is posting HIS ideas. You should post YOUR ideas and others should do the same.

How can he or anyone else get input if they don't post their ideas?

From your post, I take it that you're inferring he needs permission before posting his ideas and I take exception to that

[Bing-Bing]

I once lived in a small town in Colorado where we were told that since we had lived there only 8 years we didn't know what was best for the town and didn't have a right to vote. I guess this pertains to Airstream ownership vs. starting a new club. I wonder how long I need to be an Airstream owner to be eligible to join an Airstream club?...I think this is where I came in.................

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Jim don't take this the wrong way but you're getting ahead of your self talking about the structure of a Airstream club.

You're an Airstream owner what about a year?
With less than 100 posts

There are many people here that you should be getting input from before you post your ideas.

Sounds like a response from the IBT. Just pay your dues and leave the important decisions to those of us that count.

BTW, I've owned my Airstream a little over two years, do I count?