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overlander64 · 01-04-2013, 05:10 PM

I am curious about whether there may be too many of us with Lifetime memberships and the powers that be didn't properly assess the actuarial table when they established the fees for the Lifetime Memberships. As a Lifetime member, all that I have to pay are my local dues each year.

Kevin

wkerfoot · 01-04-2013, 05:32 PM

Kevin,

It may be the actuarial tables were optomistic or just the fact that interest rates are at historic lows, therefore less earnings on the Life Membership fund.

Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander64

I am curious about whether there may be too many of us with Lifetime memberships and the powers that be didn't properly assess the actuarial table when they established the fees for the Lifetime Memberships. As a Lifetime member, all that I have to pay are my local dues each year.

Kevin

Protagonist · 01-04-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander64

I am curious about whether there may be too many of us with Lifetime memberships and the powers that be didn't properly assess the actuarial table when they established the fees for the Lifetime Memberships. As a Lifetime member, all that I have to pay are my local dues each year.

Kevin

Not sure that makes much difference. What cash outlay does WBCCI have for a life member? Doesn't matter as much whether the fees invested are earning less interest or if the members are living longer that predicted, if the life members aren't the ones racking up the overhead charges.

Membership dues pay the WBCCI overhead charges. That's it. Or at least that SHOULD be it. Rallies and caravans should be self-supporting, in that the attendance fees go to pay the expenses. If the general fund is pouring money into the events, that's news to me, and that's a practice that would need to be stopped.

Pahaska · 01-04-2013, 06:09 PM

It is set up so that the life member club pays current dues to the general fund for each life member. The club budget depends on these dues. The life member fund is not-too-slowly going broke.

Protagonist · 01-04-2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

It is set up so that the life member club pays current dues to the general fund for each life member. The club budget depends on these dues. The life member fund is not-too-slowly going broke.

Ah. Thank you for the clarification. Didn't remember that there was a separate life member fund, probably because I'm not one.

overlander64 · 01-04-2013, 06:34 PM

Greetings Pahaska!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

It is set up so that the life member club pays current dues to the general fund for each life member. The club budget depends on these dues. The life member fund is not-too-slowly going broke.

That was exactly what I had suspicioned. I purchased my Lifetime membership several years ago just prior to a rather substantial jump in the cost of Lifetime memberships. At the very least, there is the cost of the annual Blue Beret subscription for each lifetime member in addition to the other administrative costs associated with each membership. According to my calculations I will have broken even with my Lifetime membership in two years. When that happens, I will be 55 and still have a number of traveling years left.

Kevin

Lily&Me · 01-04-2013, 06:41 PM

Doug says "you can't stop a dog from suckin' eggs".

Maggie

rgesch · 01-04-2013, 06:47 PM

Zzzzzz......

wkerfoot · 01-04-2013, 07:38 PM

John,

Actually, dues are taken out of the Life Member Fund at the amount in effect when the life membership was paid not the current dues amount.

Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

It is set up so that the life member club pays current dues to the general fund for each life member. The club budget depends on these dues. The life member fund is not-too-slowly going broke.

dwightdi · 01-04-2013, 07:43 PM

I checked the Bylaws and could not find it, but I think the Fund pass into the general fund at a rate that was current when the life member bought into the fund. So, someone's payments from the LF fund to the general fund might be only $35 ,if he bought in many years ago. That is one reason the cash inflow to the general fund is not just the number of total members times the current yearly dues rate.

I think the National Caravan Committee chairman maintains a safety fund (to cover potential caravan leader fraud)that is not shown in the club's financial statement. Each caravan participant contributes $1 for each caravan they participate in. Sort of similar to the current proposal for Unit rally participants.

wkerfoot · 01-04-2013, 08:13 PM

Dwight,

The amounts withdrawn from the Life Membership fund are detailed in the annual report from that fund and the amounts vary depending on when the member paid the Life Membership fee.

To my knowledge, nothing concerning the caravan committee appears on the WBCCI financials. I am not aware that the caravan committee makes any contribution to WBCCI, but I may be incorrect.

Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwightdi

I checked the Bylaws and could not find it, but I think the Fund pass into the general fund at a rate that was current when the life member bought into the fund. So, someone's payments from the LF fund to the general fund might be only $35 ,if he bought in many years ago. That is one reason the cash inflow to the general fund is not just the number of total members times the current yearly dues rate.

I think the National Caravan Committee chairman maintains a safety fund (to cover potential caravan leader fraud)that is not shown in the club's financial statement. Each caravan participant contributes $1 for each caravan they participate in. Sort of similar to the current proposal for Unit rally participants.

Jim Foster · 01-04-2013, 10:31 PM

One of the easiest and fastest ways to curtail any activity is to tax it with nothing going back to those being taxed.

I can not believe that anyone would seriously consider driving another nail into a coffin for which the grave has already been dug.

Wow.

dwightdi · 01-05-2013, 06:19 AM

It appears, the "Caravan Committee" is run as an associated "interclub", but isn't one legally. No associated clubs (interclub exp.VAC or units)finances are reported on the International books(or provide revenue to the International club). International Unit rally tax would just use the unit treasurers to collect them. I would hope calmer heads prevail. Only 7 IBT members need to vote against it. 2/3 majority is required to approve it.

Lily&Me · 01-05-2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Foster

One of the easiest and fastest ways to curtail any activity is to tax it with nothing going back to those being taxed.

I can not believe that anyone would seriously consider driving another nail into a coffin for which the grave has already been dug.

Wow.

Well, this is what the IBT does, don'tcha know?

No sooner is the MOHO issue defeated---again---but they try to find a new way to ramrod something that they want but the majority of members do not.

It's all about what serves them best. Hate it. Don't they get it?

Okay, rant over.

Maggie

Gene · 01-05-2013, 09:25 AM

If an IBT member goes to a rally, do they have to pay anything at all, or is it an official visit and they get in free? I guess if they get in free, they wouldn't have to pay an additional dollar.

Gene

Jim Foster · 01-05-2013, 01:35 PM

Our WBCCI unit has 63 paid members in our most recent unit directory.

That's $4,095 per year to WBCCI.
Our unit has 8 rallies per year. If we average 22 rigs per rally, that would account for 176 rig/rallies.

$4,095 divided by that 176 rig/rally number is $23.26 our unit is already paying to WBCCI per rig, per rally.

Need I say more?

Dan and Liz · 01-05-2013, 02:30 PM

Do I smell a "RAT?"

rideair · 01-05-2013, 03:33 PM

Maybe it's a thing of instead of taxing more, we spend less. Mindset needs to change in that the IBT/EC7 "needs" to travel like they do to rallies and events which will help reduce some of the cost. Also, we may have to cut office cost by having part-time help during the non busy time of year.

Much like with the Feds, you either have to grow the base paying the taxes or cut the money being spent, if not, you will end up having to put .42 cent of every dollar spent on the credit card and have your children and grand-children pay it off.

Enjoy,

Protagonist · 01-05-2013, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan and Liz

Do I smell a "RAT?"

My brain is working so slowly today (all together now, "Doesn't it always?"). Took me three of four reads of your post to realize it's an acronym.

dwightdi · 01-05-2013, 04:46 PM

We have full time employees at HQ right now and pay their healthcare plus a 5% matching payment for their 401 IRA's. That is where the bulk of the dues go. It is about $200,000 per year, which would be $35/member. The officer travel budget is about $100,000/yr. or $17.50/member. That leaves $12.50/ member to cover insurance, office building, and all other programs.