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Old 01-29-2011, 07:41 AM   #261
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Yes but by the end of the next International we will have a different, oops, wrong word, Make that new president.

I do find the preliminary report encouraging. Hopefully the documents will be distribute soon on the web and maybe by constant contact. I would like to see them before the Sarasota Rally.
I do think if they prove to be anywhere near satisfactory we should push them through and tweak later
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:50 AM   #262
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Bob,

Thank you for the reply and the transcript. The answer to my question is embedded within it. If I'm reading it correctly, the simply answer is "yes".

I look forward to soon receiving the entire document.

Thank you for your work on the committee.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:25 AM   #263
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Bob - thanks for the list of goals for the revision. As we saw yesterday, the devil is in the details (I'm sure you already know that).

Yesterday's issue could have been resolved with a very quick interpretation by the IBT, reversing the "precedent" the CBL Chair used in his opinion. It was clear the Region Presidents were frustrated that they were directed to move backward with the Region 11 motion.

The change should focus administrative power with the EC but all decision making and interpretive power with the Region Officers. This encourages change as the membership wishes.

If the new revision limits membership to Airstream owners and limits the power of the EC, I will recommend a YES vote to my unit (over 300 votes). I look forward to reading the proposal.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:26 AM   #264
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How can you say that without having seen the changes? The present organization certainly needs to be changed, but the events of the last few days (and the last few months) engender little confidence that the new constitution and bylaws are better than the present.

And we've seen how well "proceeding to propose desired changes" works.
.
I say that because past history has shown that if the delegates start tearing it apart NOTHING will happen. If it looks to be a move if the proper direction we need to go with it (and from the summary report, I am encouraged that it is, but of course am waiting it see the final version as is everyone else). It can then be further revised later.

There is no way, as some here would like, that a document such as this could be edited and created by a cast of thousands (on these forums). Common sense dictates that a small group of committed and trustworthy individuals really needed to do it. I know we had no choice in selecting those individuals, but I believe they met the requirements and are trying to put forth the best document possible. And I say this not calling any of them friends, having met only one of then once, but I know some of them by their past actions. I do not consider them "insiders" and that is important.

I know this new constitution will not be everything to everyone - nothing can be and these forums are proving that some members have no idea what they want since they wanted many of the changes it APPEARS that this revision will offer, but they are tearing it and the messenger apart before actually seeing the document (and that is not pointed at you).

I just don't see why everyone can't be patient to see what comes of this before making all of the negative comments. Maybe they will be justified and say "I told you so" then, but maybe, just maybe they will be surprised and happy with what they see. I will remain the optimist until proven wrong.

P.S. And yes I am VERY disappointed by what happened to Forrest's motion, but if this new Constitution is what it is claimed to be, that motion may have become a moot point. That said, Forrest's motion should have been allowed to proceed.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:27 AM   #265
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Rick,

If it's true that we maybe going to a 1M1V, which depending on how that's setup in the "re-wrtten Constitution" and depending on if you need 51% or 2/3rds to change the possible "New Constitution" depending on how that's setup in term of voting (if you don't vote, you have no say, which many Units only get about 50% of the people voting), it could be almost impossible to change this thing or stop anything the IBT wants to do. I'm not sure I agree with the "pass it now, change it later" idea. That almost sounds like what the last congress did with the healthcare bill.

Granted, I think we need to see what's in it before going off the deep-end, but for people to also say we should pass it before even seeing it is just a bad.

I think most would say the way Norm acted was one of the worst anyone has seen which is sad because everyone was thinking he was so great. If you lay down with dogs your going to get fleas and that is what he has done. My guess they are all sitting around scratching thinking what a great job they did. Gotta remember they are the "Big Dogs" of the WBCCI and you will not get on the front porch unless they want you too.


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Old 01-29-2011, 08:54 AM   #266
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Rick,

I'm not sure I agree with the "pass it now, change it later" idea. That almost sounds like what the last congress did with the healthcare bill.

]
Paul,

I just knew deep down that some one would compare my remarks to the health care bill.

At least we don't have earmarks, or do we?

Why I favor pushing it through if it is close to what we need with no MAJOR flaws is simply I have watched to many IBT and delegate slice and dice meetings, and once that starts it will take years to do, if at all
The recent caravan motion being a prime example.

I won.t make any personal decisions about supporting it until I read it.

I was also becoming convinced we had an IP that "gets it" but that went down the tubes yesterday.
I guess he didn't want to hurt Schafers feelings
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:20 AM   #267
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"I just knew deep down that some one would compare my remarks to the health care bill."

And you knew I'd be the one to do it!

Though I'm still a member of the WBCCI, I'm much like Leo G at this point and find the whole thing funny and have been for sometime(since 2007). Was always the kinda kid that had fun poking at the Hornets nest and laughing my head-off when they came out made. For some, it's there 15 minutes of fame in life and for them that's what they need to feel whole, others really do care about the club and think more of others than they do themselves.

If these guys "really" cared about the club, they would stop all repayment for travel, loosen up on the tie/white tux/ etc... and so on. Make is a fun place for a family to be and join. My guess, they dont and won't.

But for $65.00 a years, the entertainment you get is far better than any movie!
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:41 AM   #268
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I appreciate what you are saying and I think people that smile and laugh and let water run off their back are both resilient and fun to be with, however...

this really isn't funny. It is tragic. That all our collective consciences are so cinged by yet another misdeed of the EC that many will just ignore it and pretend that the leadership of the WBCCI did not just lie, purposefully manipulate the proceedings and dismiss appropriate action upon personal bias is a huge deal. The worst thing that can be done is to move on with a business as usual attitude. Never mind voting, this apathy and complacency and resignation wins for them every single time that we allow them to do it!I can't believe how members are just acting as if they are ignoring a burp in church. If you do not stand up for what is right or demand the same from your leadership and representatives what kind of association do you have?
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:18 PM   #269
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Laugh at them

Carol,

The question is "What can one person or the membership do?".

1. Yell and Scream about it. Been there, done that, did no good.
2. Try and make change "with-in their rules". Did that, did no good.
3. Threaten to bring a lawsuit against them. Leader of suit does backroom deal with IBT for his own glory. Done that, did no good.
4. Withhold dues or leave club. They don't care. Done that, did no good.
5. Members leave, form new club. They threaten a lawsuit for using Wally's name. Done that, did no good.
6. Write letters demanding change. Done that, did no good.

If you got more ideas or have the cash to "really" bring a lawsuit (not like DW's method of bringing suit) I'm all ears. Life is to short to bang your head, raise your blood pressure, loose sleep, etc... over these guys. They don't give a rat's *ss about who you are and what you want. It's that simple. I'm sorry to say that but it's true.

They are going to win no matter what. I personally feel sorry for that whole group. They are a bunch of selfish S.O.B's. They are putting their own interest in front of the good of the club, period. But they don't care and nothing you say or do will change that within them.

So, just laugh at them and the whole thing, make faces at them when you see them, do things that you know piss them off (like wearing a pirates patch over your eye yelling AARRGG as you walk down the isle with the flag swaying in the air) watching there face in disgust knowing they can't do anything about. Trust me on this one, it's funny and fun as h*ll.

I will say this, this whole thing does make me want to go to International as the WDCU delegate, I could have some real fun this year!
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:31 PM   #270
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Hope that you can go and raise some heck. Perhaps, you too can be thrown out.

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Old 01-29-2011, 07:22 PM   #271
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What would honest Abe do?

“We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln

“I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.” Abraham Lincoln
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:50 PM   #272
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Thumbs up Legends in Our Own Time

Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The trouble-makers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status-quo. You can quote them. Disagree with them. Glorify or villify them. But the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

If you can't win, change the rules. If you can't change the rules, ignore them. As a last resort against tyranny become a pirate. Be a rebel as others wish they could be. Live completely by your own rules and get away with doing so. Though you may run from fights when you can (and you choose to do so often), you are no coward. You have an amusing way and it takes an awful lot of chutzpah to act as you do, so far outside the status quo Paul.

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Then perhaps Leo is our Robin Hood, riding through the glen with his band of men feared by the bad, loved by the good. He vowed to help the people and still finds plenty of time to sing.

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Or what about Forrest, Zorro perhaps. Not only is he much too cunning and foxlike for the bumbling authorities to catch up, but he delights in publicly humiliating those same foes.

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Old 01-29-2011, 08:02 PM   #273
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“We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln

“I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.” Abraham Lincoln
JStanley I think you quotations are wonderful. Very well said, and seriously I do wholeheartedly agree. The WBCCI is not selling anything that I want to buy any more. I don't want to share in what is being done with the abuses of power against others. That is not my idea of recreation or my kind of fellowship. I am ashamed of the leadership.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:01 PM   #274
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I will be on the floor this year. It will be interesting.

The key on Survivor is to Outlast. That may be the only answer.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:04 PM   #275
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Ya know Carol, I don't really have a horse in this race anymore (as I have not renewed my WBCCI membership since I no longer have an Airstream and I WOULD NOT EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO RETAIN MEMBERSHIP WHILE OWNING AN SOB MOTOR HOME!) but I can't believe what the IP and the rest of his band or merry men have perpetrated on the membership.

I donated to the 'lawsuit that became a joke' and still feel that it should have been prosecuted AS IT WAS INTENDED, but that is another story (do you think that we will really see refunds???? NOT!!!)

I admire yours (and other's) passion and dedication in attempting to save the club from the 'feckless and self-serving leadership' (thanks Leo), but I really can't believe the total about face and subterfuge that the IP did to Forrest and the region 11 motion.

As an outside observer now, it sure looks like it's time to head your horses in another direction and let those that will destroy what's left of the WBCCI accomplish their self-serving tasks and desires. Your energies would be much better expended in having FUN! Thankfully, there are you and others who will keep the legacy and memory of Wally Byam and Airstreaming alive and well for those who follow in the search for fun, fellowship and adventure in the silver bullets that we all cherish.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:28 PM   #276
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What am I missing?? The real WBCCI!

So there is a new draft of a "proposed" constitution?? The old one is still in effect until it is voted out! That motion could have proceeded under the present constitution and if the new constitution is accepted, that change would go out with it!

Just another case of executive privilege short circuiting the present constitution. So what's gonna change if we have a new bible? The Gods have no incentive to play by the new rules so what is going to change??

I'll tell you whats going to change....NOTHING. There is still 1 Million dollars plus on the table and in the game of musical chairs they are playing, the last ones with a chair get the prize. Remember this is all about Quality not Quantity. I'm sorry for those who still believe in Wally's Vision and Helens hard work to create an organization of great product and lasting friendships. The last 10 plus years have shown our leadership to be out of sync with the vision and promise of Wally's namesake club!

I applaud the effort of those who still believe and worked so hard to bring about change but its too late!

The damage is done and as far as I'm concered that club is dead!

So where do we go from here? I like Don's suggestion of turning in unit charters and going it alone without corporate club chartering. We get to keep our friends and we don't have to pay a fee to somebody to bless our good time!

Has anybody approached Airstream to get Licensing to name and charter their own Airstream unit?
They were interested at one time in looking at organizations which would further the image of Family Fun and Adventure in an Airstream. I bet that a few disatisfied units could make that appeal with great success! They certainly don't want the WBCCI business representing their vision for Airstream!
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:51 AM   #277
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Nothing is over!

Carol,

It’s not all doom and gloom. Remember, it’s not over until you decide it is. Take away the money and you take away the lust for the position and in return the power. So, how can one go about taking away the money? At the International delegates meeting during the voting for the new Constitution. All one has to do is “propose” a change to the “WBCCI Constitution” that since we are a non-profit club, the leadership will no longer get reimbursed for any travel and that we can no longer afford that expense as a club(you will have to work on the wording) and have someone second it. Now, you will have someone from the IBT (Don Shafer) say that is covered by the “WBCCI By-Laws” and say there is “no need” for it to be in the “WBCCI Constitution”. Makes no difference! You can put “everyone has to wear red underpants” in the WBCCI Constitution if you can get enough people to vote for it, it goes in there. If you were a delegate and someone explained how we were upside-down on our budgets, with the Internet there’s for less need to travel, bla, bla, bla and at this point we should make that change because the people who have been in charge that makes those decisions won’t, you telling me if you were a delegate you won’t say, “That sounds like a good idea, I’ll vote for that”.

Now, remember, someone in that room can then also think it’s a good idea to “remove” your idea (I wonder who that would be) and it could be removed. Fine! You then propose the same thing in a slightly different set of wording.

As I said, the WBCCI International Rally delegates meeting could be a bunch of fun this year!

Nothing is over until we decide it is!

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Old 01-30-2011, 03:27 AM   #278
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I thought it would be over when Bob tells us it is. How disappointing.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:55 AM   #279
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Lightbulb

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(do you think that we will really see refunds???? NOT!!!)
The Metro NY treasurer will begin this week as promised to get the refunds sent out.

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So there is a new draft of a "proposed" constitution?? The old one is still in effect until it is voted out!
That is 100% correct.

Quote:
That motion could have proceeded under the present constitution and if the new constitution is accepted, that change would go out with it!
During the IBT on Friday there were questions about this process which is in Sec. 1 on Amendments.

The Constitution and Bylaws Standing Committee Chairman Don S. said that he would get the report to Headquarters as soon as he is back in Florida.

Is this understood or accepted ?

Sec. 1 has never been used to amend the Constitution.

It is a slow lengthy process.

But as you said it may all be a moot point (except the way it was handled) if the New Constitution is accepted there are no longer any delegates, each member gets a vote directly.

One member one vote.....hello!!

We feel its a better mouse trap.

.

flame on
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:28 AM   #280
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One member one vote.....hello!!
Not being one to follow this entire thread, but I am curious...maybe this has been addressed somewhere in this thread, but I really don't want to get involved in this whole foray.

In this new "whatever", does "one member one vote" allow for absentee or mail-in voting or is it a "must be present to vote" type arrangement on the International level?

Shari
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