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Old 02-27-2008, 12:18 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.

That's what the forums are all about! Join some forum rallys and have some fun! No stuffy ceremonies or miles of daisy-chained water hoses!

Susan
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:06 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by munimula
...what piece of the revenue pie AS is for thor?...
sorry muni' don't have time right now to dig out the sources again...

and at least we agree that the CORPORATION has continued to support the club where it matters, and without fanfare.

but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)

and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)

you do the math.

also given that a/s recent peaks in unit production are ONLY 2,000-2100 annualy, with several 100 of those 4 export only this year...

and recent dealer owned inventory is moving MUCH slower than from 02 thur 06...

while thor's annual rv only sales target is 100,000 units, and that doesn't include the bus divisions.

so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.

trying to figure the a/s contribution to the total corporate profit is more complicated,

based on public information available.

thor continues to allow each of it's brands to operate as individual companies,

and only has small overlap or shared functions/technology.

and warranty/repair costs at a/s significantly cut into profit.

so my observation is basically as suggested back here, in post # 2, 8, 41/42...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352...ics-28584.html

thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!

with corrosion and frame problems

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:36 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
I couldn't disagree more. We have enough stress in our jobs that we don't need it in our hobby. Fighting the Name Change in 2006 was tiring, but worthwhile. Fighting the SOB MH issue in 2007 became too much. We survived 2006 because all of our units came together to reaffirm that Wally needed to remain in the club name.

2007 was a different case. We ended up changing our primary unit for 2008 because of this issue. When we attended the 2007 rally where the vote was held, we came to understand that we viewed things very differently than the rest of our unit. They all bought the "we don't want to vote our friends out of the club" story that was delivered loud and clear in the Blue Beret (with no opposing opinion allowed in the Blue Beret, I might add). We didn't buy that story. After that rally, we ended up seeing ourselves as very different from the rest of the unit, who are generally old enough to be our parents. Yet just a year before we were inspired by these same people as we could only hope to be as active when we get to their age.

But not all was good with our other units either. After having opinions and counter opinions about the SOB MH issue published in the Unit Newletter, things got a bit too personal. We almost avoided a rally for fear of being parked next to someone whose rebuttal to something I wrote got a little too personal.

We also know a couple of Airstream Motorhome owners (who were opposed to SOB MH's being admitted into WBCCI) who left the club because this issue came to be "MH vs. trailer" rather than "Airstream vs. SOB". And this never would have become an issue if the IBT hadn't brought this issue forward in the first place.

So, YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level. That damage can and does impede attempts to "just enjoy the local unit".

And let me add, that most everyone we have met in the club (and all three of our units) is nice, but we just want to be around others that think like us (more or less).
I have to disagree with one thing you say here Joe.. There were many including myself who had the same view as you on this issue in our unit. As you pointed out the one with a A/S MoHo who left the club was also in our unit.. If I remember right it was voted down in our unit as well..I talked to HQ today and they told me this issue is a long way from ever getting to Bozeman. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays in South Fla!! But just in case it gets to Bozeman. My pencil is sharp and ready to vote it down again!!!
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
but a/s is a ~100 million $ company (recent annual sales figure)
and THOR is a 3 BILLION+ $ company (including all divisions, gotta count bus sales!)
so a/s is just a small slice of thor pie.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f352...ics-28584.html
thor waves the a/s flag like ge'em waves the corvette, and a/s is like a trophy bride!
according to the AR - buses did $400 million in '07. Based on simple math from what Larry Huttle was saying at the mid-winters - the DWR model has done $50 million to date alone. AS is a bigger piece of the pie than you think. I'm not saying how big because there report is not transparent by brand.

Gotta run to a 4pm meeting where I get to talk numbers for two hours. I can't let AirF get in my way of funding my aluminum habit.

aluminum|munimula
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:08 PM   #85
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If those sales figures are correct then Airstream accounts for not quite 3.5% of Thor's bottom line. I know that a "big piece of pie" is relative because whenever we are at my in-laws for Sunday lunch when asked if I want pie , I always respond with yes a big piece and I invariably get a piece that is about 5-6% of the total pie and I also then invariably think to myself, this is not a big piece of pie. I want at least a 12.5% piece of pie before I begin to call it a big piece of pie. Then again I do like pie.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:35 PM   #86
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zzzz what? I'm awake. I know you all love to crunch numbers and become analysts, Thor owns Airstream and Airstream made motorhomes and now they don't, and there are Basecamps and fifthwheels and a class C prototype driving around out there and squarestreams,and vans and Leo may say that the introduction of new types of units caused havoc with membership fighting to get them in or keep them out, ....but it doesn't change the price of dues today. So what's the plan now that you are all all fired up. Where do we go from here?

Too funny, Mossy! Make mine french silk, please.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:50 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
the DWR model has done $50 million to date alone. AS is a bigger piece of the pie than you think...
i have no insider stuff,

but that's GOTTA be wildly mistaken info...

doing simple math, IF the dwr models actually sold for 60K, which they don't....

a/s would need to crank out 800-900 of them yearly, to get close to 50 mill$...

that would be 40-50% of TOTAL a/s production.

then dealer would need to actually SELL 800-900 dwr units, a totally laughable notion!

the factory has made ~100-150 dwr units (there is only one model) or LESS....

the DOLLAR figures and production data noted above and in the other thread, aren't what i think...

they are what is PUBLISHED and provided by a/s and thor....

a/s reports 100 million bucks in annual sales as the total/gross sales figure,

and NO ONE specific unit...accounts for 1/2 of their total production or sales revenue.

cheers
2air'

have fun at yer meeting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
...Then again I do like pie.
FINALLY an important topic, we can all agree about!

now WHEN is the PIE RALLY?
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboss
I have to disagree with one thing you say here Joe.. There were many including myself who had the same view as you on this issue in our unit. As you pointed out the one with a A/S MoHo who left the club was also in our unit.. If I remember right it was voted down in our unit as well..I talked to HQ today and they told me this issue is a long way from ever getting to Bozeman. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays in South Fla!! But just in case it gets to Bozeman. My pencil is sharp and ready to vote it down again!!!
Ralph, Actually we don't disagree. You see Lorrie and I were only associates of your unit last year when this vote came down, so we voted elsewhere. It is your unit that we transfered into for 2008! I know your unit voted this motion down in 2007 and if this thing comes back at us this year, our vote will move the needle further toward 100% against in your (our new) unit.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:57 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
Ralph, Actually we don't disagree. You see Lorrie and I were only associates of your unit last year when this vote came down, so we voted elsewhere. It is your unit that we transfered into for 2008! I know your unit voted this motion down in 2007 and if this thing comes back at us this year, our vote will move the needle further toward 100% against in your (our new) unit.
Well that is good to hear, but the year before that, the then current president of M-D as also acting delegate flipped the entire unit's no vote on the name change issue at the delegates meeting!! We need to change that situation so as not to put our delegates in that position again of making a snap decision instead of bringing the amendment back to the unit for a vote.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:18 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag'nwagon
After carefull and thoughtfull consideration on this matter, I have figured out a way for this to work. It is quite simple and meets club requirements. Take the money that has been saved by purchasing an SOB and buy a Base Camp to pull behind.
YES, an IDEA!!!!! I Love it.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:32 PM   #91
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So if it was to pass I think I would go buy me a 25 yr old Fleetwood MoHo and join the VAC!! Wouldnt that be a sweet looking rig? Shades of X-Mas Vacation...
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:54 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi

Some members are upset by the tactics. If you want to read the whole story and the conversations about it, go over to savewally.org in their forum section.
Gee, that's very hard to understand why, but frankly not shocking given all the bad press and blood they've produced in the past over this single issue....
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:22 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by 65GT
...My comments are based on the ramblings of a long term past Airstream President...
FINALLY your source for all the bogus history is revealed!

you've been swimming in the dead pool again... and channeling voices,

come back through the warp hole in that space vortex.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:37 PM   #94
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I only caught the end of this discussion at the FSR, but afterword I did discuss it with the region 3 pres. His reasoning is as follows (BTW he has a 2006 brand new MH, this is not a personal issue to him). The members that want to stay in a MH WILL leave when it comes time to trade because they want a NEW motorhome. It is a member retention initiative.

Being a member with close to 15 years in the club I can tell you that IF this ever sees the light of day at the IBT, and passes, the members that exercise this option are going to be shunned by the general membership. The General membership are the ones that coined the term SOB.

I see it as a stopgap measure until the dust settles or product development happens that creates a Thor/Airstream (built by a thor division with an Airstream name as a special order) motorhome. I do not see it as the death rattle of the club, I see it as a way to allow the older members that want/need to stay in a MH in the club until they die. The DIE HARD Airstream owners will keep the club alive. This issue could be the rally issue that more members can use to push the club (IBT)to be more effective in all of its activities to increase the membership. I have spoken to a number of the international presidents regarding the shape of the club org chart and offered my advice on how to make it more streamlined. Most of it has been accepted, but not implemented. The organic nature of the club has actually made some of my recommended changes happen and I belive it will continue.

I am not saying we should roll over on this issue, but I doubt it will make it out of the initial motion stage. Too many hurdles to overcome to get it before the IBT for initial vote. I am going to my unit Executive board meeting (even though I am not able to attend the rally) just to be sure I get my $.02 in.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:02 AM   #95
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Does everyone feel the love from Leo? So happy to have such a friendly easy going guy in our corner. Leo, please do keep posting, people really do enjoy your ....... I don't know what to call it........ Hmmm let me think....... Oh I see........ Look familiar? Sorry Leo, I will not get into another fencing match with someone who plays with a dull blade. Fortunatly, folks are usually judged by what they post and I feel most members on this thread as in others have figured you out. Please join the ranks of forum members who are here for the friendship and learning and save your sarcastic posts for your own forum. Enough said...please have a great day!
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:46 AM   #96
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Air-nooby here with a question----Why all the turmoil?----Is it that when at a rally a non-monoque[sp?] will ruin the view? or are motorhome owners are not cool?--or is it bad to taint the purity of aluminum at rallies?--or is it the unfair tactics used by your club leaders?--why not "the more the merrier"?-----just askin----
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:36 AM   #97
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Quote:
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or is it bad to taint the purity of aluminum at rallies?--or is it the unfair tactics used by your club leaders?--why not "the more the merrier"?-----just askin----
Liken the WBCCI to a Camaro Owners Club. A proposal get's presented to the Camaro owners that they need to let Mustang owners in as a stop gap to diminishing membership. If past, is it still a Camaro club then?

There are plently of multibrand RV clubs out there that folks can join. As you stated - keep the Rally fields pure...

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Old 02-28-2008, 07:40 AM   #98
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It IS the more the merrier as long as they're Airstreams. The basic problem is that a very small special interest group of MoHo owners have been trying to end the single brand identity of the club -- let OTHER -- Some Other Brand -- into the club and that's just not going to fly without a mass exodus
...
I'm not a WBCCI member, and don't see where I can benefit (at this time in my life) by joining. But I am following this with some interest, sadness, anger and foreboding.

IMHO, WBCCI is an Airstream club. I agree that Ford Mustang clubs should be forced to have Volkswagens allowed in, and I see a parellel here.

However, I am fearful that when powerful people use their positions and influence to manipulate the environment around them (as well as the rules, timing and propaganda--oops, I mean information to the masses), there is always a chance that the end results of things put into motion will be different than what the masses expected. It seems to me that a little paranoia is not unwarranted.

Anytime I hear someone counseling "Just relax; everything will be OK", my early warning detectors go off in my head.

What a distraction this seems to be. What a division this seems to cause. What an amazing and saddening spectator sport.

As I think 2Air has implied, hospice may be the best hope for the masses to get the club back. Evolution at its best. But I personally hope not. WBCCI had said on it's website "The Wally Byam Caravan Club is now one of the largest clubs in trailering, and it is a remarkable tribute to Wally. It demonstrates once more, and in an excellent way, the effect he had upon those around him. Most men would have insisted upon controlling the club; Wally let his followers keep control." Maybe control can be regained.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:41 AM   #99
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We can express our opinions without being nasty, or getting personal. K?


and personally, I think its nasty that we're gettin our panties in a wad over something that is, at this point, little more than a rumor.


(Hey! I see an NEU flag in that pic!!! wonder when/where/who this was?)
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:49 AM   #100
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(Hey! I see an NEU flag in that pic!!! wonder when/where/who this was?)
Chuck, the picture is from a '70's issue of Life magazine. When I get home tonight I'll dig it out and see what info was attached to the photo.

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