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Old 02-26-2008, 08:20 PM   #61
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Let's just hope this is someone just testing the waters

I still hold out hope that if someone is really thinking of doing this that in fact they are just testing the waters and will not move forward with this.

I'd feel a way lot better if someone were to come back and say "false alarm" though. Much better.

We can hope for that. We can also hope that if someone is thinking this that they have gotten wind of the angst it is already causing and will back away from it.

Barry
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:25 PM   #62
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I hope so
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by bfred
Carol, thanks for the kind words. they are appreciated. I can't believe the controversy these folks like to stir up. The FMCA has three times the members and the IBT is constantly in touch with their membership. Course they don't fly flags and have special parking spots. We will reinstate to attend the convention in WI. and get rid of this motion. Leo didn't think they could get it together fast enough to present it at Bozeman.
It's a date Buck! Mighty glad to hear that!!!!
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:28 PM   #64
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I don't understand what all the quitting is about. this issue has zero effect on the overall experience of being in the WBCCI - which is attending Unit events. to me it is a convenient (and false) excuse to quit the club.

it hardly gets discussed at our Unit events...ever. we had a mail in vote last spring. the tally was taken quietly by the officers and our Unit vote of NO SOBs was cast at Perry. it was the end of discussion at our Unit level.

the only time i ever see any discussion is on the boards. and frankly i enjoy it, albeit one sided. we never here someone who is pro SOB in the WBCCI chime in here or at any of the other boards.

call me offbeat but i enjoy the hell out of trying to solve the WBCCIs problem via my keyboard. this has provided the smallest bit of controversy in my day-to-day existence. everywhere else i go in my day-to-day i am required to be soooo PC that discussing anything beside the weather is treading in dangerous waters - exaggeration but i hope you get what i mean.

let these knuckle heads bring it. we'll send them packing to the Good Sam Club in no time.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:39 PM   #65
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Your unit sounds good. Lots of great units and members. But the folks at top are our ambassadors and the face to the club. How are they doing? What are they doing? What have they done for us lately? Your unit probably is solvent with their collection of dues. Where does everyone's $55.00 a year go? Sure most don't have a problem with that but we are funding the club to be our agents. Again, how are they doing? What are they doing to enhance your units experience? Or could your unit stand alone? Couldn't they all? Again, what are they doing at the top? Fostering self interests and killing morale isolated away from the pulse of the club. It is a big deal, they NEED to be hassled. They are the seive for losing members.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:11 PM   #66
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Your unit sounds good....Again, how are they doing? What are they doing to enhance your units experience?
All of my Units are AMAZING!. My main Unit is Watchung NJ Unit. In addition, I am an affiliate in the NY Metro and Washington DC Units. The camaraderie among the three Units is wonderful.

The hardest part about being in the club is getting to all of the Rally's. Between work and my two teenage (and very active) kids it's hard to make every event all year round.

Regarding my view of the top - these people have been at this game a looong time. To get to an International officer position takes no less than fifteen years of rising through the ranks. it seems they each want to leave some kind of lasting mark on the club - however misguided in a kind of Machiavellian in a way.

fortunately, those in the upper echelons today will not be there in a few years. we delivered a shot across the bow last summer at international by nominating Pete Daniel from the floor. oh we had the blue hairs and red coats in a tizzy. it was great. the IBT'er got the message that the winds of change are coming.

the next generation is making moves right now to elbow our way into the upper ranks. Until then we are going to have to continue to fend off really bad ideas that continue to emerge in the name of selfish ideals via Unit voting.

bottom line, if everyone looking for change quits, change will never occur. and if good people with good ideas continue to be MALs, their voice cannot be heard at a Unit level and they will NEVER effect real change.

The WBCCI has some real hero's. The Region 2 President Don McKelvey is excellent and is pushing things in the right direction. Barry H is on the slate to move into 3rd Veep spot. please vote for him in the upcoming elections. beside being a good guy, he actually pulls a trailer. And then there is Leo. I've never witnessed someone pour so much into making this club better. point being that the WBCCI has real hero's working hard right now.

Quitting?? Now??? i just don't get it.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:28 PM   #67
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what if there is a party and NOONE came?

Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
...we never here someone who is pro SOB in the WBCCI chime in here or at any of the other boards...
i'm on record from early on...

let EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in to the current club....

really, class a, popups, camper shells, tents, lean2z, umbrellas, backpackers and hobos...

my guess is that membership would continue to decline at the same rate, regardless...

and maybe even faster!

and that would be GREAT NEWS toward forming a new club...

with NO IBT (irritating bobblehead types) needed.

the basic problems have not changed and are typified in a response from muni' last year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
...here is a quick and timely membership story - a good buddy and his wife just attended the Can Opener Rally and had the time of their life. The Rally ranked high as one of their best Airstream Rally experiences. The met a new friend who had owned his trailer for a week. They invited him over to the Daytona WBCCI Rally the next weekend. The new friend followed and was prac ticvally acosted upon arrival by the local WBCCI "membership chairmen". The MC told him that because this person did not have numbers 9on his rig that he was an insurance liability as was not really welcome at the Daytona event. The new Airstream felt bad about this and was gone from the Rally before daylight and has suggested he now probably never join the club.

This is a true story that happened a week ago and deserves it own thread. I've been sitting on it not to steal Howie's thunder should he ever get home and want to share the ordeal. This is a good example of why membership is dwindling. People don't want to put up with this bullsh-t when they are RVing. They want to go out, meet new friends, and have a good time....
-it is STILL all about getting power, keeping power and inflicting power on others...

-folks on the ibt career ladder get $$$MONEY$$$ to travel from the club...

-they wanna stay IN the club to feed their egos and continue to use club funds to do it...

and in the fourwinds-mandalay thread from last year on this topic came the PERFECT reply...

accidently, and from one of those real bobbbleheads...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnzbernd
... the entire WBCCI organization ought not need to change how it does business to accommodate a few who can't figure it out!!
long live the wbcci.....whatever brand carpetbaggers club international!!!

take away the wasted CLUB FUNDING of ibt member/functions and then see the REAL future leaders appear.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:53 PM   #68
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This non Airstream Moho crowd is a real pain in the neck. Fortunately the fun I have with the FCU outwieghs the misery these nitwits cause.

Sadly or gladly depending on your view. These folks won't be around too much longer and we'll be rid of these self centered short sighted people.
Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:00 PM   #69
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i'm on record from early on...let EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in to the current club....
2air...2shay.

i have also stated in this forum that the club needs to hire an outside consulting firm to help shed light on it's operations the effect they have on growing membership. there is nary a business man in the bunch at the IBT. I'm sure CRM is a foreign acronym to most in the upper ranks.

i've felt this way since the name change debacle. it really came to light though at this past mid-winter IBT meeting. I listened in to most of it. I heard all of the mundane calls to order and motions being presented. it sounded like the meeting was just dragging along.

then there was a break and larry huttle spoke - kind of his state of the company annual speech. he was incredibly upbeat. talking about global domination, new models, sales through the roof, special projects, TV placement, etc. in a word exciting. one would think that a club associated with this brand would be thriving in the same manner.

not. once larry was done speaking there was a call to order and back to the business at hand - in the most droll and boring manner you could imagine. the contrast between what the WBCCI - an Airstream club, and what the corporation is up to was night and day. stating the obvious, the club is not keeping up with the company in terms of the sizzle factor.

Whose fault is it? Where does the problem lie? Should the company have more of a hand in the clubs business? maybe. but then some may scream that they are meddling. The WBCCI is the quintessential old boys club. Until the IBT allows outside input from marketing and customer experience professionals the membership will continue to decline.

for me that is no big deal because i get everything i need and want from the club already - friendships and rallies. if it continues on the same course it's on now, it will still be here in 15 or 20 years when i'll be ready to retire and caravan.

will the WBCCI survive to the next generation? who even knows what the heck we'll be driving by then. personally, i'm bullish on the WBCCI being here for my kids if they are so inclined.

--dave
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:10 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula
I don't understand what all the quitting is about. this issue has zero effect on the overall experience of being in the WBCCI - which is attending Unit events. to me it is a convenient (and false) excuse to quit the club.

it hardly gets discussed at our Unit events...ever. we had a mail in vote last spring. the tally was taken quietly by the officers and our Unit vote of NO SOBs was cast at Perry. it was the end of discussion at our Unit level.

the only time i ever see any discussion is on the boards. and frankly i enjoy it, albeit one sided. we never here someone who is pro SOB in the WBCCI chime in here or at any of the other boards.

call me offbeat but i enjoy the hell out of trying to solve the WBCCIs problem via my keyboard. this has provided the smallest bit of controversy in my day-to-day existence. everywhere else i go in my day-to-day i am required to be soooo PC that discussing anything beside the weather is treading in dangerous waters - exaggeration but i hope you get what i mean.

let these knuckle heads bring it. we'll send them packing to the Good Sam Club in no time.
I couldn't disagree more. We have enough stress in our jobs that we don't need it in our hobby. Fighting the Name Change in 2006 was tiring, but worthwhile. Fighting the SOB MH issue in 2007 became too much. We survived 2006 because all of our units came together to reaffirm that Wally needed to remain in the club name.

2007 was a different case. We ended up changing our primary unit for 2008 because of this issue. When we attended the 2007 rally where the vote was held, we came to understand that we viewed things very differently than the rest of our unit. They all bought the "we don't want to vote our friends out of the club" story that was delivered loud and clear in the Blue Beret (with no opposing opinion allowed in the Blue Beret, I might add). We didn't buy that story. After that rally, we ended up seeing ourselves as very different from the rest of the unit, who are generally old enough to be our parents. Yet just a year before we were inspired by these same people as we could only hope to be as active when we get to their age.

But not all was good with our other units either. After having opinions and counter opinions about the SOB MH issue published in the Unit Newletter, things got a bit too personal. We almost avoided a rally for fear of being parked next to someone whose rebuttal to something I wrote got a little too personal.

We also know a couple of Airstream Motorhome owners (who were opposed to SOB MH's being admitted into WBCCI) who left the club because this issue came to be "MH vs. trailer" rather than "Airstream vs. SOB". And this never would have become an issue if the IBT hadn't brought this issue forward in the first place.

So, YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level. That damage can and does impede attempts to "just enjoy the local unit".

And let me add, that most everyone we have met in the club (and all three of our units) is nice, but we just want to be around others that think like us (more or less).
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by munimula
... Should the company have more of a hand in the clubs business? maybe. but then some may scream that they are meddling...
dave and others...

club decline BEGAN when a/s cut them loose and the slope has been DOWNWARD since...

quite simply, the club exists BECAUSE of the brand...

yes yes the people matter but ALL clubs have people...

the main 'screaming' would come from VAC folks IF a/s was again directly involved in the club...

the o.t.c. people think they are the wb' future and that they will inherit the club eventually...

i favor professional management of an ALL airstream club that focuses on camping, travel and fun!

in truth IF the company were to become involved again, it would mostly be out of respect n honor to ol'wally...

because today's a/s BUYER has NOTHING in common with the ibt vision or otc vision...

the company could eventually restore the club and re-connect current buyers and long time owners, with 'streaming history...

but WITHOUT a marketing director or current marketing PLAN, even the company is a-drift-without-a-hitch...

for now.

cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
...YES, these IBT inspired, top down, issues do real damage at the unit level...
proverb says...the fish rots from the head down
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:25 AM   #72
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So the deadline for such a proposal is next week is that correct Leo?
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:25 AM   #73
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Sure am glad I joined before learning that I joined a club that is having an identity and personality crisis. I read this article Here we go again...*-*Savewally.org and was struck by a feeling of remorse. If it were not for being a part of a great unit, the numbers would already be in the mail. What kind of reception would a class A SOB motor home recieve at a rally? Has there been any in the past as associate members?
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:05 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
the company could eventually restore the club and re-connect current buyers and long time owners, with 'streaming history...
This is the key to a better WBCCI future, but I don't think we need Thor to take over to accomplish this... just their assitance.

Here in Wisconsin, a few of us already have some marketing in the works to do just as you suggest.

As far as the VAC thinking they are the future of the WBCCI, It's not exactly that... but the Vintage trailers (and their owners) are the history of Airstream and history is what Airstream and the WBCCI have that the SOB clubs don't. History is something that can't be bought, but it can be sold... and that is what needs to be done to grow the club. There is an amazing story to be told.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:09 AM   #75
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Has there been any in the past as associate members?
No, the club's constitution is very specific on this point. If you sell your your Airstream you can stay as a member, but if you then buy another brand to travel in you are no longer allowed to stay.

The deadline for the proposal to get to WBCCI HQ is the 1st of March. The Club must then send the proposal to all Unit Presidents by the 1st of April.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:19 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
What is always interesting to note is that Thor is the reason this club has had every major shake-up it's ever had. It's Thor that took Airstream from a classic shape to everything else under the sun. It's Poor stewardship of the brand is an understatement.

It's Thor that continues to tinker with what an Airstream COULD be and leaves this club having to deal with their failed products
I'm not a proponent of letting Thor run the club, but I think you may be throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Yes Thor has expanded the product line to many variations but to expect a corporation to stand static in a product market isn't a reality today. You test the waters, you see what takes and what doesn't. It takes company resources to do this but we wouldn't have the variations in many corporate product lines if a single product attitude was taken.

Quite honestly the direction that Airsteam was going before the Thor purchase was right down the tubes. Personally if Thor hadn't decided to develop the Safari line, would I be in an Airstream today? Probably not (either because the company would have been bankrupt or the lower cost and weight Safari might not have been available). Their best selling lines today aren't the Classic but the variants, the Safari's, the Internationals, and the CCD. Those lines have sparked the interest of the younger owners and those not willing to spend the bigger dollars that the Classic line trailers demand.

Now you might say these examples are all trailers, and not in the same discussion as motor homes, class C units, base camps etc., but you have to understand that there is only so much market out there and allowing diversification in the market can benefit the community as a whole by building a stronger corporate unit. Yeah it plays havoc with the club but you know what ever form that product takes, it still is an Airstream. The key is that it stays a club for Airstream owners.

I applaud those fighting the battle preserve that single fact.

Jack
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:45 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by byamcaravanner
...History is something that can't be bought, but it can be sold...
well history can and IS also just faked, fabricated and reconstructed to suit a present sellers purpose...

as my buddy leo likes to do (see post #79) so often when he just cooks up this stuff!

ALL of the great days in club history happened under the company banner.

that includes caravans, rallies, membership spikes and so on....

the decline began WHEN the club was given independence and full freedom from the corporation...

and every little club BOOST since then has been created (quietly) by the company.

wally was a company man FIRST.

discussing thor as the parent company is a distraction...

a/s is such a small brand, small market... and SMALL piece of thor financially...

their primary purpose with the silverships, is as a SHOWCASE brand for the rv lifestyle...

and perpetuating the myths of adventure, freedom and open spaces for rv travel...

while wb' and otc members perpetuate the myth of an evil empire company...

as we've covered in past threads, just look at company/brand clubs like harley, bmw, or any lifestyle/product assocation....

they ALL focus on making the ownership experience FUN and EASY for their user groups...

at the local, regional and national/international levels...

righting the wb's sinking ship isn't complicated (but it may be too late)...

just begin by THROWING ALL THE RATS OVERBOARD, along with their rules, restrictions and phoney exclusive ethos...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:01 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, right now I have no interest in joining this club, what-so-ever; And I'm concerned that by the time these old fogies are out [one way or another] I will be too old myself to enjoy what could be something every Airstream owner would and should want to be a part of.
Why wait? Join WBCCI now and be a part of the fun group. We have an awsome WBCCI Unit, New England, and we don't let politics get in our way of camping and having fun together. We are a diverse group of over 100 units from MoHo's, Vintage, Argosy, New and everything in-between. So far this year we have over 15 rallies scheduled and three caravans. WBCCI can be what you want it to be. Join today and be a part of future of this great club.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:10 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
What is always interesting to note is that Thor is the reason this club has had every major shake-up it's ever had. It's Thor that took Airstream from a classic shape to everything else under the sun.
Time for a reality check and some homework. This comment is totally out of line and not factual. Leo, please do not spread your beliefs as facts and please post your comments as such that other forum members and visitors understand that this is purely your understanding of the situation. One very, very important event to remember is that if Thor had not come onto the scene no one but no one would be buying new Airstreams today! Learn the facts of the subject then post accordingly.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:19 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
a/s is such a small brand, small market... and SMALL piece of thor financially...
2Air - how do you know what piece of the revenue pie AS is for thor?

I just looked through their '07 Annual report and you can't gleen how much revenue each of their brands puts to the bottom line. they only break out RV revenue by towable and motorized. towable rev for '07 was $1.9 billion and motorized was $565.5 million with total RV sales rev at $2.4 billion. Almost 3/4 of their RV income and corporate profit is from the towable side of the house with AS being the flagship.

see... http://www.thorindustries.com/corpor...nualReport.pdf

trust when i say that this brand is VERY important to this company and their bottom line. 2007 was their second best year behind '06, when they delivered many hurricane relief trailers.

The company has always sprinkled cash support on the WBCCI. I think they could do more but, as you state they may get push back from the IBT. arrrgghhhh
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