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wkerfoot · 07-13-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock60

i think most of them try to put 1000 sites on about 5 acres.

I think you are optomistic on the number of units per acre. RV parking gets 40-50 parking spots per acre and this is with no space between units. Don't forget the driveway take a lot of space.

Bill

**azflycaster** · 07-13-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock60

i think most of them try to put 1000 sites on about 5 acres.

Based on 1000 units on 5 acres, each unit would get 217.8 square feet. That would be about 27 x 8 feet. No room for the TV and you can't open the door of the trailer.

I know that they do squeeze them in, but I think 5 acres might be a little low.

HiHoAgRV · 07-13-2007, 12:02 PM

I just read where the EAA flyin in Oshkosh is expecting 40,000 campers this year at Camp Scholler.

Now that's big!

My parents are there right now doing Volunteer prep work, they have only missed 1 year since the flyin was in Rockford.

Minnie's Mate · 07-13-2007, 12:03 PM

It seems to me if the WBCCI used a camping resort like Lakewood, there wouldn't be a need for so many volunteers and there wouldn't be a need for 5 weeks of set up.

I think the cost for a FMCA rally is comparable to a WBCCI rally and they use a professional event planner with professional entertainment. I know they use fairgrounds also, but it seems to me that their organization is much more efficient.

I would be interested in attending an International Rally at Lakewood because there would be plenty of amenities to keep my kids occupied while I did the rally stuff. My wife and I could take turns with the seminars, etc. that interested us and switch off looking after the kids. I bet you would get a lot more families attending a rally at Lakewood than you do in an amenity-less field where only the parents have planned activities. Just MHO.

peegreen · 07-13-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie M

Cut the International Rally to 4 or 5 days.
Rent a convention center. Trailer parking would be off site.
Members can choose an RV park in the area, from top notch to boondocking,they control their costs.
This eliminates almost all of your volunteers, and the month long parking costs.
Offer a day pass and an event pass for members to attend the venders, semilars and any entertainment.
Young families can show up for a day or two, again cutting costs.

It could not hurt to try this approach. I think it would beat spending nine days in a hayfield such as Salem OR.

Charlie, How 'bout a rally in Vegas? Would be worth the drive.

2airishuman · 07-13-2007, 12:55 PM

it's hard to understand what the international is...

and how it's run,

without attending at least one for many days.

looking at the official rally booklet helps some. borrow a booklet and read.

the international ISN'T a big camping party.

it's a legislative event with officer installations and unit/region/int ceremony.

social things happen around the principle functions.

---

azf' you ask 'why so many volunteers for so long?'

well, having volunteered for 3 committees (at 1 rally) it's like this....

1-2 hours of "work activity" every 3-4 days or so for the month and sometime much less. honest!

then depending on specific committee function, this may increase or decrease once the general membership starts to arrive.

even then folks usually work less than 3 hours every few days.

tours/day trips/excursions/luncheons are scheduled for the volunteers during the weeks prior...

wine tours, bus tours, visits to local toursist things and so on....

so along with the free camping, volunteers have a slate of activities before the offical event.

it's a group of retirees with days to fill

using a resort/campground might eliminate some committees but i doubt it.

there are 100 or so committees ranging from sign making, to bulletin boards, to morning prayer, to card games, to line dancing, to photography,to board games, to teen queen and so on...

don't forget the temporary 'post office' and wally radio and ribbons and lpgas detector committees and on and on...

most of the event is organized and structured to PERPETUATE it own function and purpose.

try reducing the committee structure for the u.s. congress...

the wb'ers build a little city then take it down....

timing? the bylaws state it must include canada day and independence day.

so july 1 and july 4 must fall during the event.

what i read in this thread is..."lets have a great big rally!"

i'm all for this big campout, it would be fun,

but the wbcci isn't an integral part of any of this.

AND most lifetime/regular wb' international rally go'ers...

are looking for a VERY INEXPENSIVE venue....

it's not a fmc or good sam or oshkosh, or sturgis like event...

attending ONE international is a nice chance to see several 100 silver units in one location...

it's a nice one time visual, for a few days.

i'm all for a great big annual airstream camping event, so lets plan one!!!!!

it isn't the international and really doesn't need to be....

MOST a/s owners don't belong to the wbcci, would you want to exclude ALL of these a/s owners?

cheers
2air'

imo bigger isn't necessarily better, it's just bigger.

beyone 100-200 units this becomes an exercise in 'fema' style living and all that goes with massive gatherings...

Minnie's Mate · 07-13-2007, 02:39 PM

I'm hesitant to discuss these issues because I'm sure somebody is certain to flame me for "attacking the volunteers", but there are several points 2air' makes that bring up rhetorical questions for me.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that after the '08 International that we should abandon the current format and completely change the way things are done, but a lot is discussed on this forum about how the WBCCI should change and how it must change if it is going to survive. I have never attended and International Rally, this is true. I realize that I speak hypothetically when I review the schedule of events from a previous International and see nothing that my 7 and 10 year old boys would be interested in. There may be other boys their age they could play with at these rallies, but they would be bored out of their skulls if they happened to be on the opposite side of the rally field from where the other kids their age were parked by the volunteers. This is why I am disinclined to attend an International.

I agree that from what I have read, the International is more of a conference or convention than it is a rally, but what was described above for the volunteers leading up to the International sounds a lot like a rally to me. It seems that the volunteers are looking for a free five week rally or free five week vacation in exchange for investing a very few hours of work a couple of times a week during those five weeks. As was said, it is retired folks with days to fill and from what was described, they fill those days with rally activities. It seems to me that for the volunteers it is an annual "great big camping event" for five weeks at the expense of the non-volunteering members.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge the volunteers. It just seems to me that there could be a more efficient way of running the International perhaps with fewer volunteers and maybe condensing that five weeks to two weeks or something. Perhaps if there was a more family friendly environment to have the International in, there would be more families attending and with more families attending there would be more revenues from International Rally fees to cover the cost of the extra camping fees and using an event planning firm and there would be less need for a bulletin board committee, etc. But as it stands now, there is a lot of dissension among the ranks of the newer members when it comes to the special perks the volunteers get like special parking and special seating at the events during the international.

When it comes to cost, I looked at the cost of a single ocean front camp site at Lakewood as a potential destination for my family. This is one of the more expensive categories of camp sites and the cost during August would be $50/night with an additional $5/night for Friday and Saturday. This includes up to 50 amp service and sewer hook-up. I gleaned somewhere in one of the discussions that the cost per night for a trailer at Perry was $35 as charged by the Fairgrounds. Add to that $135 for 30 am service and you aren't that far off in price for the 9 days or so of the International. Lakewood offers a discount for rallies so you might could even come out cheaper per site and have full hook-ups, in-door and outdoor swimming pools, plus 62 channels of cable! Add the cost of the event planner, professional entertainment, and, say, 50 units for two weeks of volunteers and amortize that over 1,000 camp sites and you might only be $20-$25 per couple more in rally fees for the entire International vs. the $135 for 30 amp service and having to use the "honey wagon" at some fairgrounds.

Anon · 07-13-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

In Canada the Pinery PP has more than 1,000 sites.

The Pinery ABSOLUTELY ROCKS!
A phenomenal campground!

rseagle · 07-13-2007, 03:14 PM

The KOA at Va Beach has around 1000 sites.

Pam · 07-13-2007, 03:17 PM

Less emphasis on the meetings and rules, and more like a very large rally.

What's wrong with change? Nothing.

**azflycaster** · 07-13-2007, 04:44 PM

If you want to compare costs, I suggest you look at the 2008 Bozeman International. The event is listed as 7 days long and has a cost of $265 for the rally and camping + $255 for 30 amp power. That comes to $520 for 7 days or roughly $75 per day. I think the water / waste pump and dump is included.

Poprivet · 07-13-2007, 04:56 PM

Ya know, The hair on the back of my neck frizzels if I pay more than $25 bucks for full hookups which I rarely use. Give me a good electrical source so I don't need to run my generator and I'm happy.

When I hear $50 - $75 bucks a night, I'm not going! To many top shelf places to camp for $20 or less.

If you locate a facility that can accomodate your function, you should get big discounts. AND - no need for big square boxs to arrive months early. I must stop now because I promised to be nicer on the forum

Poprivet · 07-13-2007, 05:12 PM

Wow - It's really not that hard to build a campfire

thecatsandi · 07-13-2007, 06:58 PM

You should go to Boyds Key west. I parked my truck across the front of the lot. about 23 Feet. the site was a barely 40 feet deep. ok that about 800 sq ft.

safari57 · 07-13-2007, 08:20 PM

Just a question - does anyone go to within a close distance of the rally and camp at a nice campground and commute into the event for the various functions? Like say Bozeman - why park in a field if there's a decent campground nearby to enjoy the amenities provided by a good campground, and drive over to the rally for the functions that are relevant. Or is this considered a no-no.

Barry

**jcanavera** · 07-13-2007, 08:43 PM

I can tell you that many of the St. Louis unit members have traditionally always camped out at an outside campground. They usually reserve a year in advance if possible. Now that AC power is available they might not be doing it as much. I don't blame them though. Between the annual stories of mud, dust, ticks, and ants just to name a few, I'd probably go for something off site myself.

2airishuman · 07-13-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safari57

does anyone go to within a close distance of the rally and camp at a nice campground ...Barry

yeah barry!

lets have a 'near bozeman' forum rally...

montana in june/july would be a great event...

cheers
2air'

safari57 · 07-13-2007, 09:20 PM

2air'

I suspect we could cure all the ails (and ales) of the world in short order, have a great time prepping the locals for what is about to come, and in general just previewing everything the official group will see. Then we could hang out with the rally folks when they show up, but be parked in a nice comfortable environment. I suppose by now I've dug a deep enough hole so I'll just shut up now and park my keyboard for a few moments.

Barry

wkerfoot · 07-13-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by safari57

2air'

I suspect we could cure all the ails (and ales) of the world in short order, have a great time prepping the locals for what is about to come, and in general just previewing everything the official group will see. Then we could hang out with the rally folks when they show up, but be parked in a nice comfortable environment. I suppose by now I've dug a deep enough hole so I'll just shut up now and park my keyboard for a few moments.

Barry

Barry,

You will miss a couple of things by camping offsite, the vintage parade and parking with all of the great VAC members.

Bill

safari57 · 07-13-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Barry,

You will miss a couple of things by camping offsite, the vintage parade and parking with all of the great VAC members.

Bill

Bill,

I'm sure there are other things as well that I'd be missing. As for the vintage parade my wife tells me that since I've put a "couple" of pounds on that whenever I walk past her it's like viewing a vintage parade. I hate when she says that and tried to see myself in a mirror while walking past but I'd have to turn it sideways to do that and my neck isn't that long.

I'm just basically a shy guy. Camping with 2,000 or so close friends is pushing my comfort zone a lot. A couple of hundred is probably getting close as it is. Shade is important and having shower facilities close at hand would eliminate my wife wondering why I haven't gotten around to installing one yet in the Flying Cloud. She will wonder where I am spending my time when I'm out "working" on the trailer (checking out the foam on the beds of course - they need constant monitoring as I understand foam deteriorates).

But you are right, Bill, there are some things we'd not be able to participate in. Have to consider the trade-offs as always. Thanks for the reminder.

Barry