22' vs 19' CCD

[BeBop]

I am narrowing my search for my first airstream. Any opinions comparing the 22' to the 19' would be appreciated.

As far as I can tell, the 22' offers slightly more space, albeit in the form of a desk, and more counter & storage space. The 19' seems to offer a better placed and larger refrigerator, seperate shower & sink areas, and larger propane & battery reserves.

Thanks for any responses!

[Silvertwinkie]

Hi. Some of the differences are:

Wet bath in the 22'
Wheel well takes up some legroom under the dinette on the 22'
22' has one battery/ 19' has 2 (not sure on the 22' CCD)
22' has electric tank heater(s) 19' forced air
22' has about 19' of interior space/ 19' has about 16' of interior space
22' has dual axles/ 19' has a single axle
The fridge as far as I know is the same in both

We owned a 2003 Bambi and loved it. However, we did notice some space issues. We looked at the 22' for a bit and decided that the 25 had the features we liked in the 19' plus a whole lot more. The weight for the 25' units (Safari or CCD) is only about between 700 and 1000lbs more than the 22' unit. There is much more storage in the 25' C we upgraded to than was the case with the 19' unit we had and the 22' units we looked at.

The 22 is a very nice unit as is the 19' and 25' units. You might find that if you go on extended trips, the 25 might be a bit more accommodating. However, if you are the weekend warrior type mostly, the 19 and 22' units are great...not to say you can't go out for weeks at a time with the 19' or 22' units. We did with our 19' Bambi. We like the 25' Safari SS (same as the 25' CC) very much and find it much more comfortable.



Eric

[Janets Husband]

Originally Posted by BeBop

I am narrowing my search for my first Airstream. Any opinions comparing the 22' to the 19' would be appreciated.
As far as I can tell, the 22' offers slightly more space, albeit in the form of a desk, and more counter & storage space. The 19' seems to offer a better placed and larger refrigerator, separate shower & sink areas, and larger propane & battery reserves.
Thanks for any responses!

I know this may sound trivial but check out the bathrooms, sit on the pot, move around as you would be using it. I know for one, this is a large bone of contention in our family. Later in life it will be a bigger issue. This sounds trite but needs are different for men and women, check out both sets of needs. The bathroom is often the worst design in a trailer, almost an after thought.

Next sit in the main space, will you have the sitting around room you need? Does it allow for two guests, 4 guests? If you get rained on you will be thankful for that well designed living space.
It is important that you actually experience the space go and spend time in the trailer without the sales person trying to sell you on it, take your time.

[crazylev]

A few more thoughts. The longer the trailer, the more dificult it might be to manuever into some spaces, if you are really new at it like I am. Obviously practice makes perfect, but maybe a smaller trailer to start would make sense. Having more inside space is appealing though.

If considering the 22', also consider your tow vehicle situation. Our V-Dub Van handles the 19' CCD fine on flat midwest terrain, but I would need hair plugs if I dare ventured to the wild west.....

The 22' is a double axel which are supposed to be a little easier to move about.

The desk in the back of the 22' doesn't do much for me, becasue when I camp, I want to be outside as much of the time as possible. I can write a letter under the awning. Fresh air. AAAAHHHH.

I think that the dinette on the 22' is located just over the wheel well of the trailer, so someone might be sitting where the "hump" is. Other 22' ccd owners can confirm or deny this though.

True, the 19' does in fact have two batterys insteadd of one.

As far as storage, some people bring the entire contents of their house for a weekend of camping, whereas when my wife and I camp, we bring the bare minimum, which for us, we still camp what I consider to be royalty!

Before the 19' CCD, we camped in a VW Eurovan pop-top for up to a month at a time, so the 19' was like moving up to a castle!

With either unit being and Airstream, I'm sure you will be happy with your choice. We are, now that the initial wig-out faze is fading.

BTW, we are going to take the coach out to a lot tommorow, and practice using the reverse gear, and parking, etc. I strongly recommend anyone traveling in the midwest to avoid the north part of Illinois for your own safety. I'll post an all clear when we finish.

Jonathan

[Pahaska]

A few more thoughts. The longer the trailer, the more dificult it might be to manuever into some spaces, if you are really new at it like I am. Obviously practice makes perfect, but maybe a smaller trailer to start would make sense. Having more inside space is appealing though.

Just the opposite. A longer trailer is much easier to reverse than a short one. This is especially true with a long wheelbase tow vehicle and a short wheelbase trailer. Worst I ever encountered was my tiny Starcraft popup behind a Nissan pickup. My 25' is easier to reverse than my 22' was.

The 22' CCD is definitely a 2-person trailer. Only 2 adults can comfortably sit at the dinette at a time. The bed in both the 22' and the Bambi is narrower than I consider to be comfortable for 2 adults and in both trailers, the bed has walls on a lot of the perimeter, making it more confined and hard to make up.

[crazylev]

Pahaska.

Shows you what I know!!!! If that's the case, and with my driving abillities, I should have ordered a 60 foot trailer!!!

Jonathan

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by crazylev

Pahaska.

Shows you what I know!!!! If that's the case, and with my driving abillities, I should have ordered a 60 foot trailer!!!

Jonathan

A good example are the 18-wheelers. Long wheelbase trailer and a short wheelbase tractor. The longer trailer reacts more slowly to steering inputs and that makes it a lot easier to put in a tight spot.

When you get up to a 34-footer, you might run in to space limitations in a tight campground, but I'll guarantee they are easy to back.

[hohne]

...have to agree -- we went from a dodge extended cab long bed to a Suburban towing a 28W...much easier to back up...

[rseagle]

I have a 2004 22' CCD and a family of 4. We looked at both the 19' and 22'. Here's why we decided on the 22'.
My wife and I can manage to be comfortable in the 48" front bed. I was surprised, 'cause I'm a big dude! The daughters do fine on the dinette/ bed. We've had four adults sit at the dinette and admittedly it was cozy, but despite the wheel well hump, it was easy to move the legs over for more room.
The bathroom is a big deciding factor. Some people hate wet baths. But when someone has to sit on the toilet, there's plenty of leg room in the 22'. I couldn't close the door on the 19' with my legs straight, and I don't like sitting sidesaddle in that situation. Our first trailer had a dry bath, and we found that it was used very little, because we used the camp facilities often. We Boondock, and I don't like to haul anymore water than I have to. We've been happy with the wet bath, plus I like the aluminum bulkhead and rivetted porthole. It makes me feel like Captain Nemo in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.
We love the kitchen counter space in the 22'. My wife loves the deep sink. There is very little counter and cabinet space in the 19'. The 19' does have a 4 CF fridge compared to the 22's 3 CF model, but it hasn't been too much problem since we always carry several coolers with us.
The desk, admittedly is a waste of space in the 22', but my daughter's liked it for doing their stuff. They're entitled to their space too. We also put the Toshiba 9" AC/DC color TV/DVD combo there and all can watch it from the desk chair, dinette and bed.
Forty pounds of propane is enough for our week/10 day boondocking trips.
I'm getting a bracket fabricated to place an awesome 212 Ah Scrubber/Golf Cart deep cycle battery on the tongue above where the wimpy Group 24 85 Ah currently sits.
Also consider, if it is raining and you have to spend a day or 2 in the trailer, can you be comfortable in a 19' as opposed to a 22'? We recently spent 2 1/2 days inside due to rain and the 22' did quite well for us. We probably would have been at each other's throats in a 19'.
While a 25' CCD will add more space over the 19' and 22', consider your tow vehicle, your use and your pocket book.

Hope this helps you make your decision,

Bob

[67caravel]

Bob says it so eloquently.

We, too, have the 22' and there's good reason it is the most popular CCD and the first one Airstream took to market - it suits the needs of more people than either the 19' or the 25' and, therefore, was most likely to be successful (at least that's what the dealers say...).

Our last Airstream, a '67 Caravel at 17', was clearly too small for anything real serious in duration. The difference between it and the 22' is astounding - no comparison. The extra room in the 22' makes it seem palatial in comparison. Frankly, I like the desk. When I'm home, I can use it as a, well, desk! When we are configuring for travel, I will store our Engel 45 portable fridge/freezer underneath the desk and use that for a seat as needed. We take 2 - 3 dogs (one large, two smallies) with us - always - which eat fresh food so we need plenty of fridge/freezer space. I run a small company while on the road and do payroll while boondocking... There seems to be plenty of room in the 22' and the diner converts into a perfect bed for our pooches.

The only shortcoming, IMHO, is the possibility that we will tire of the wet bath. But, I intend to install the outdoor shower option for times when our boondocking permits. Plus, it will allow us to clean the dog's feet, as needed, after a day's hiking.

My wife, quite frankly, thought the 19' bed wasn't as useable as the 22' as additional seating. It's corner configuration left limited options. We've added several "euro" size pillows and made our 22's bed into a "couch" when not used for sleeping. Our factory flat panel TV rotates around and we can sit there, quite comfortably, and watch DVD's or TV (we use a small inverter so the TV runs on DC).

All in all, we are quite satisfied and happy with the 22' even though our experiences with this trailer are limited. It appears that, long-term, it is going to suit the two of us and the pooches quite perfectly.

Good luck to you in your quest! It is a wonderful journey of discovery.

Best regards,

X

[dmac]

Key questions: what is your tow vehicle? and, how many people are you bringing? These will determine your selection more than anything else. Any Airstream from 19-25 will be great. These sizes fit into nearly all campgrounds - many Forest Service campgrounds are limited to 25 feet. On a rainy day, or with kids, or a long trip... bigger is usually better. We are happy with our 25ss partly because it has a bed, dinette, and sofa without reconfiguring anything. Just like home.

[BeBop]

Thanks to all for your input.

I went to the dealer yesterday and spent quite a bit of time inspecting a 2003 22' CCD that had arrived. I like the airy design of the 22', but I noted that the materials used in the interior are, how shall I put it, not wearing very well.

The dark laminate used for the cabinet exteriors seems to be quite thin, with wear to the edge proceeding over the surface, and routing around upper galley cabinets was not smooth (burrs, et cetera). Overall, I like the design, but fear the materials used may age a little too quickly. Even though I am looking at new units, I decided to inspect a used one, to see how they age. Perhaps the unit had been well "used" and such wear is unusual for its' age. I also noted some of the exterior vents are plastic.

Once again, thanks to all for the info.

[rseagle]

Bebop,

That's an interesting observation. I thought just the opposite! I liked the black and white laminates because I thought that they would be easier to touch up over time as opposed to the wood grained laminates in the Safaris. The lack of carpeting, metal interior walls and minimum upholstry appealed to me, because it would be easier to clean and not look "ratty" in a short period of time due to wear.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Bob

[crazylev]

I can tell you in my 19'CCD, the few tiny scratches (self-inflicted) do really show on the dark woodgrain laminate, because the "wood" inderneath the dark stain is light, which will standout more. I was thinking of contacting AS about how to touch up these little annoyances, or maybe a black Sharpie indelible pen would work.

Anyone with the dark wood-grain interior have any experience in this area?

Jonathan

[Pahaska]

The dark laminate used for the cabinet exteriors seems to be quite thin, with wear to the edge proceeding over the surface, and routing around upper galley cabinets was not smooth (burrs, et cetera).

I think that the problem isn't wear, it is simply sloppy work with the laminate trimmer. I had a number of places on my 2003 International AS, especially on the wardrobe doors, where it was obvious that the laminate trimmer had not been kept vertical and the blade had removed the surface layer of laminate, which is the color layer. The result looks like the laminate is worn.

When usinga laminate trimmer, you not only have to keep it vertical, but you also have to monitor for adhesive buildup on the bearing and blade which result in poor edges.

The laminate is really quite strong and, when glued down correctly, makes a sturdy product. The color layer is quite thin, though, and will show shoddy workmanship.

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by crazylev

I can tell you in my 19'CCD, the few tiny scratches (self-inflicted) do really show on the dark woodgrain laminate, because the "wood" inderneath the dark stain is light, which will standout more. I was thinking of contacting AS about how to touch up these little annoyances, or maybe a black Sharpie indelible pen would work.

Anyone with the dark wood-grain interior have any experience in this area?

Jonathan

I used a black Sharpie on scratches in the black counter tops in my International AS. It helps, but it looks dull compared to the surrounding surface. Perhaps some clear finish on top of the Sharpie mark would show up less. Maybe even clear nail polish.

[Marina]

It's safe to say then that one person and her sheltie will do fine in the space of the 22' CCD living full time?

That being the case- Be really honest- do you all think a 2003 F-150 FX4 4WD SWB Flareside with class III hitch & towing group will realistically tow the 22'CCD reliably with out abusing either the truck and or the trailer?


Truck GVWR = 6500lbs.
Trailer GVWR = 5600lbs.

Or do i need to start looking seriously at the 19' Bambi? I really don't need to be stranded- or have mechanical problems any more than usual. I believe i'll be maxing out the trailer weight too...wadda ya' think?

[67caravel]

Marina,

According to the Ford website, their Class III's can tow #5900 (frankly, I can't find the F150 configured that way, all the latest F150's are Class IV at something over #9000).

Are you sure yours is a Class III?

Do you have more towing specs for your truck?

X

[Marina]

The window sticker that came on the truck peeled off easily- the sticker that came from the factory...it says "Trailer towing group, Class III 350.00". It also has a 3.55 limited slip rear axle and 17" wheels.

It gets confusing, because the owners manual's numbers contradict on the very same page too! Adding insult to injury- i call the Ford House and in so many words- i get a polite: "Idunno". So i contact the people who i expect to order the trailer from- and get the same (grrr)..it's getting a little old!

I found a sticker on the trailer hitch hidden from sight up under the truck that says: max gross tlr weight with a weight distributing hitch = 8700lbs. With a tounge weight of 870lbs. The next coloum says max tlr weight of 5000lbs with a weight carrying hitch and a tounge weight of 500lbs.

So i have all these numbers and no way to make sense of it all. When i think i start to understand- i check the math and it doesn't work?

More help please!

[67caravel]

What does the Ford dealer say?

I don't think we've come to any conclusions yet on what yours can tow...

Might be easier to go with the 19', LOL!

Keep going!

X