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wheel interested · 11-18-2005, 07:15 PM

My husband would love the valance lights to read his newspapers. Thanks for shedding some light on the matter.

I didn't know that the wires were accessed in that manner. Are the radio wires there as well? How do you know all these things?! Tell me were you one of those little boys that took the toaster apart just to see how it was put together?

Pahaska · 11-19-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel interested

My husband would love the valance lights to read his newspapers. Thanks for shedding some light on the matter.

I didn't know that the wires were accessed in that manner. Are the radio wires there as well? How do you know all these things?! Tell me were you one of those little boys that took the toaster apart just to see how it was put together?

My dad had a big workshop filled with all sorts of fascinating things and I was into every thing from about 12 until I left home. I tend to analyze everything I lay hands on and I don't hesitate to modify things when I figure I can improve on them. One result is the 30 patents I accumulated while working for IBM.

One great help is downloading the pdf files for the manuals and parts catalogs for the trailer. There are diagrams and parts lists for everything in it. The 2005 owners manual omits the wiring diagram

, but it is in the 2004 manual and essentially unchanged.

The radio wires are pretty much restricted to the box in which the radio resides. You can get to them by removing the radio and the cage in which it mounts. The cage is held in by bent aluminum tabs that can be straightened by sliding a knife between the cage and the wood. You will find that the radio wiring is an absolute rats nest and best left alone.

On my 25, I attached to the radio wires, but it is nasty trying to get wires in there and keeping them concealed. The nice thing about attaching to the wires to the undercabinet lights is that the wires are very easy to conceal. There is a lot of slack on the wires between the cabinet bottoms, so it is easy to attach there.

Pahaska · 11-20-2005, 10:17 AM

Here is a drawing of the vertical rack for my dessert plates with the dimensions I used. I built it out of bits and pieces of wood that I had laying around the workshop. The end piece is a scrap of 3/16" plywood. The rest happened to be some rock maple cut from scrapped old theater organ pedal bars. I padded the top where the plates rest with some hard plastic molding, but some sticky velcro fuzz would do just as well.

I used some 1 1/2" wide white Velcro to pad the places where the plates might bang against the wall when underway, although the plates tend to rest at an angle and probably will not move much except maybe on a panic stop. I also put a little piece of the sticky Velcro fuzz on the strut that holds the cabinet door up just in case my enameled Airstream plates might bump against the strut on a rough road.

My rack is assembled with a pneumatic nail gun, but any sort of fasteners would do. The rack is attached in the cabinet with a screw through the 1/4" crosspiece. I placed it as close to the door as posssible and there is space behind for small items such as mugs.

Pahaska · 11-22-2005, 02:24 PM

The front cabinet where the radio resides is a natural for addition of a shelf. My shelf is faced with hard black plastic molding and laminated with some scrap formica to conceal the fact that it is made of a scrap of cheap mahogany plywood.

This is a real easy place to attach a shelf, the radio box and the end of the cabinet are parallel surfaces..

SilverToy · 11-23-2005, 12:21 AM

John -

Have been reading, with great interest!, your continuing posts about the mods that you have made on the trailers you ahve owned. Really like the ingenuity and naturally the construction that you use - looks great! Do have a question or 2 though.

I have a unit that is older than the ones you have worked on - mine is '92 34' Classic Limited. Saw the reading lights that you added to your units - noticed particularly on the radio shelf photo. Then it clicked, I need that sort of light in mine. Was the reference you made to the hidden wiring for those overhead cabinets in the end unit (can't find it again, sorry) or were you referencing something else. Also, since I currently have flourescents ( use less power right?) should I ditch them and go the directed ( halogen?) lights in your photo. Looking for better reading light in PM when the rest of the family is sleeping. Just curious on your thoughts.

Thanks again for all the documentation and posting of it, that you do. Even fires off a few neurons here once in a while.

Ciao

Axel

Pahaska · 11-23-2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverToy

John -
I have a unit that is older than the ones you have worked on - mine is '92 34' Classic Limited. Saw the reading lights that you added to your units - noticed particularly on the radio shelf photo. Then it clicked, I need that sort of light in mine. Was the reference you made to the hidden wiring for those overhead cabinets in the end unit (can't find it again, sorry) or were you referencing something else. Also, since I currently have flourescents ( use less power right?) should I ditch them and go the directed ( halogen?) lights in your photo. Looking for better reading light in PM when the rest of the family is sleeping. Just curious on your thoughts.
Ciao

Axel

The light you see in the radio shelf photo is the standard reading light that Airstream installs in the recent trailers. It is a good reading light for someone while sitting on the couch and does not unduly bother others in the trailer. You can order one of those lights from any Airstream dealer or look around the internet for a similar light fixture.

Your forward cabinet should have a double bottom. You can pop off the screw covers, remove the screws, and, with a wide blade like a putty knife, and carefully pry down the bottom of the cabinet to access the wires to the existing flourescent light. Install the new spotlight and connect to the wires to the flouescent with yellow tap connectors. There is usually a lot of excess wire to the existing lights so that it is easy to attach.

Another place to get power would be the wires behind the radio, but it is a lot harder to conceal the added wiring if you do this.

CACTUS · 11-23-2005, 12:04 PM

I love the bedroom cabinet mod, How is it hinged. Other mods are great!!

Pahaska · 11-23-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CACTUS

I love the bedroom cabinet mod, How is it hinged. Other mods are great!!

On my 25, I used a brass piano hinge full length. On the 28, I didn't have a piano hinge handy, and I used 2 common leaf hinges and filled in between the hinges with fuzzy of black self-stick Velcro. When the top is closed, All you can see is the black line of Velcro.

Pahaska · 12-05-2005, 10:59 AM

Last week's trip brought out a very bad weakness in the trailer that I will fix before our next trip.

There are two 3-way switches that control the water pump; one switch in the bathroom and one on the control panel above the galley sink. Unfortunately, the switch in the bathroom is on the same plate with the bathroom light switch. Sometime during the week, one of us accidentally turned the water pump switch on when turning the bathroom lights on or off. Since we were hooked up to city water all week, the pump being on was not noticed until just as we were leaving the trailer the pump happened to come on and run dry because the fresh tank had been emptied.

Over time, this is almost sure to run down and possibly ruin a set of batteries. My previous 25 had a pilot light on the pump, why not the 28?

Airstream did not include any wiring diagrams in the user's manual for my 2005 trailer, but I downloaded the 2004 manual and printed out a very blurred and hard-to read user's manual. A little time with a magnifying glass to dope out the wiring and I now know how to rig a pilot light.

When I get mine installed and tested, I'll post the info here.

flyfisher · 12-05-2005, 11:43 AM

John -

We've got the same set-up as you in our 30' Calssic, and my wife has also accidentally turned the pump on in the bathroom by mistake. I can hear our pump running though (she'd can't hear it) and I turn it off after a short time.

I like your idea, but I wonder why you really need that extra bathroom switch anyway? It's not like you have to walk an extra mile to get to the kitchen switch - perhaps 3 steps in our trailer.

John

Pahaska · 12-05-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyfisher

John -
I like your idea, but I wonder why you really need that extra bathroom switch anyway? It's not like you have to walk an extra mile to get to the kitchen switch - perhaps 3 steps in our trailer.
John

You're right, the switch on the control panel is a lot less likely to be accidentally activated than the one in the bathroom, but even that one could very easily be forgotten when putting the trailer away since there is no on/off indication. My wife does the inside chores when getting ready to move the trailer and she most likely won't remember to turn it off.

It's just about as easy for me to add a pilot light as it would be for me to disable the switch in the bathroom. And there have been a few times that I have needed the pump on that it would have been very impractical to open the doors to the rest of the trailer for various reasons.

I have already installed a 12v cigarette-lighter type outlet in the area below the wardrobe door, adjacent to the water pump. I need only to to drill a hole and crimp a couple of inline taps to install a pilot light there.

davidz71 · 12-05-2005, 06:29 PM

John,
Why not replace the rocker switch with the pilot light built in? Turn the switch on and the rocker lights up.

Pahaska · 12-05-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidz71

John,
Why not replace the rocker switch with the pilot light built in? Turn the switch on and the rocker lights up.

That won't work. Since it is a 3-way hookup, "on" is not a constant state for either switch. Also, the 2 3-way switches are both parts of larger assemblies and can't be easily replaced without kludgeing things up.

I have the problem mostly solved. I stopped at Pep Boys tonight and picked up a package of 3 green 12v LEDs for $5.95. The resistors are built in and they mount by simply pressing them into a 7/32" hole. Each LED has about 18" of wire already attached, so that they will be very easy to hook up. I'll mount one LED close by the control panel switch and a second LED in the bathroom near the water pump.

There was a wide choice of LED colors available. Green seemed to be most appropriate for a status light and also was $1 cheaper for the package of 3 than any of the other colors (red, purple. blue, yellow, etc.).

Mike Lewis · 12-06-2005, 07:06 AM

Pahaska--I've been following this thread about you bathroom switches and am a little confused. We have a 25' classic, 2005, with a light switch and water pump switch on the same bath room panel like you discribe but they are 2 way, just on-off. The pump switch in the galley is a 2 way ,on-off switch also. Am I confused on this or what??---Pieman

Pahaska · 12-06-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Pahaska--I've been following this thread about you bathroom switches and am a little confused. We have a 25' classic, 2005, with a light switch and water pump switch on the same bath room panel like you discribe but they are 2 way, just on-off. The pump switch in the galley is a 2 way ,on-off switch also. Am I confused on this or what??---Pieman

I think if you will play with the switches a bit, you will find that they are actually 3-way switches. Try turning the pump on with one switch and turning it back off with the other. I bet it works.

I have printed 2004 wiring diagrams here on my desk for both the 28 and the 25 and they are identical in water pump wiring. My 2005 matches the 2004 wiring diagram perfectly, so I suspect there have been no changes in the 25' for 2005. Since the change history on both of these wiring diagrams goes right back to June, 1993 (wide body introduction), this is obviously a pretty stable wiring scheme.

The switch in the lavatory has 3 wires shown. #3, the 12v feed, and 3A and 3B which are the two switched poles of the switch. The galley switch also shows 3 wires; 3A, 3B, and 3C. 3A and 3B come from the lavatory switch and 3C goes to the water pump itself. The water pump shows 2 wires; 3C and ground. This is a classic (pun intended) 3-way hookup and even the wire numbers are identical between the trailer models.

Pahaska · 12-07-2005, 07:23 PM

After I winterized the trailer this morning, I took a few minutes to install one of the green LEDs that I bought the other night. Works like a charm, but I need a dropping resistor as it is far too bright as it is.

I reached up behind the control panel and pushed outward. The panel easily popped out and there was plenty of wire to allow me to conveniently work on it. Right above the water pump switch, there was about 1/2" space between the front panel and the circuit board behind it. I drilled the hole, using a piece of wine cork as a spacer on the 7/32" drill bit to make sure I would not accidentally break through and hit the circuit board.

The red (+) wire from the LED went to the wire on the center post of the water pump switch. The black wire went to the white ground wire to the panel. I attached the wires by cutting off the old crimp connectors and crimping the small wires from the LED in with the wires going to the panel.

The result looks "factory" and, except that it is now too bright, works as advertised.

I'll experiment in my shop with a battery and one of the spare LEDs to determine what size resistor I need to get the right light output.

I'll post some photos when I get a chance.

Mike Lewis · 12-07-2005, 08:16 PM

John ---Maybe I'm confusing the "terms" when I say my25 has a 2 way switch. Yes I knew it operates in a fashion that allows you to turn the pump on from either the bath or the panel. My understanding of these switches is that they are "2 position, 3 pole switches", as the ones in mine only have on -off and nothing in between. I have an idea now that we're taking of the same switch just different terminology??---Pieman

Pahaska · 12-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

John ---Maybe I'm confusing the "terms" when I say my25 has a 2 way switch. Yes I knew it operates in a fashion that allows you to turn the pump on from either the bath or the panel. My understanding of these switches is that they are "2 position, 3 pole switches", as the ones in mine only have on -off and nothing in between. I have an idea now that we're taking of the same switch just different terminology??---Pieman

There is no such thing as a fixed off or on switch position with these switches. Whether the pump is running with a given switch up or down (right or left on the control panel) depends on the current state of the other switch.

The term for that hookup is a 3-way circuit, the same as a residential 3-way circuit. I know the terminology is confusing, but I didn't invent it. A 3-way circuit does not require that the switches have 3 positions. I think that 3-way refers to the boolean state of the switches: match in state A, match in state B, or mismatch.

If you have never happened to turn the pump on with one switch and later turned it off with the other switch, you may not have noticed how it works.

**azflycaster** · 12-08-2005, 01:37 AM

Here is a diagram of a basic 3 way circut.

Pahaska · 12-08-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azflycaster

Here is a diagram of a basic 3 way circut.

That is exactly the way both the 25 and the 28 water pumps are wired. On the diagram, simply mark in +12v on the top wire at the extreme left. write "lavatory" over the left switch, write "galley" over the right switch, and write "ground" on the bottom wire on the left.

My LED pilot light is tapped into the wire between the galley switch and the pump with theother side of the LED wired to ground..