Winterizing in the South...

[Tobbun]

Howdy from Texas,

I know we have a lot of AI owners that live in the south and curious about when and what you watch for on winterization.

We sometimes get below freezing but it usually doesn't stay there very long. Do you watch for when the temp will drop below freezing at anytime and say that Winterization should be done before that? Do you look at how many degrees the temp is going to be below freezing?

We keep the AI in the back plugged in... so if there are tips (using heat, doing a temp shroud around the AI to prevent the cold air from blowing below the AI) people use to extend the time before having to winterize would be interested in it.

First winter in north Texas with the AI and we still have events we want to use it (bathroom facilities are a huge plus for the wife) but staying in the lower states (TX, LA, MS, AL).

Looking at our 10 day forecast the expected lows coming up don't get below 34 degrees.

[HowieE]

Freezing is a function of temperature and duration of time below 32 degrees.

An over night freeze, 6 hours or so, that does not drop below 25 degrees, at the low point, should not be a problem. But a continues freeze for a day night and follow day at 30 degrees is a problem. I try to tough it out, with just a drain of the hot water heater and blow down, till we leave for Fl. in Jan. But if I see a 24 hour period predicted below freezing I quick pump in the anti freeze.

If you are plugged in and have a small electric heater and a recording thermometer in the trailer you will be supersized at the difference you can maintain.

Now that said if things change and you are out of town and a real cold snap come through you could have a problem.

Just to be safe I would drain the hot water heater, blow out the lines and put anti freeze in the traps. You should not need anti freeze in the lines if you blow them out completely.

[OTRA15]

Lots of variables, especially wind. A strong wind, blowing on an exposed corner of the AS, can freeze a weak link in the chain, even with the air temp in the 28-30 F range.

When in doubt, winterize.

Peter

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Lots of variables, especially wind. A strong wind, blowing on an exposed corner of the AS, can freeze a weak link in the chain, even with the air temp in the 28-30 F range.


When in doubt, winterize.


Peter

While I agree with your bottom line statement, I thought wind chill only affected living things. Does wind on an inanimate object actually lower temperature?

[OTRA15]

No it does not, but it sucks the heat out of our poorly insulated units very quickly. The heat gain inside often does not reach a cold pipe buried inside a wall with the strong 28 F wind blowing directly on it.



Please note that I did not use the term "wind chill" -- as that term is often misunderstood.

If there is an air leak near the buried pipe, and the strong cold wind is forced through a small hole, that can create an additional Venturi-effect cooling of the 28 F air to something a bit colder IMO. Not a physicist here, so will not belabor this minor point, or debate it any further.

The general point remains that wind is an important factor in assessing whether to winterize -- both the wind speed and its orientation to the weak links in the chain of the AS's plumbing system [like the exterior shower, and inside shower valve buried in an exterior wall].

Peter


PS -- "wind chill" search results for earlier posts here: https://www.google.com/search?q=wind...com&gws_rd=ssl

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

No it does not, but it sucks the heat out of our poorly insulated units very quickly.

...snip...

Got it, thanks! Yes, I jumped to the wind chill inference - my issue, not yours. Appreciate the clarification.

[Boxster1971]

In Maryland we are getting down to 20's next week with daytime high just above 32 - so I winterized today.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The gotcha with things being a bit random is that you and your neighbor can have identical RV's. He does nothing for years and years .... has no problems ever. Yours freezes to the tune of a couple thousand dollars damage every other year.

As long as the water in the pipe / faucet / drain freezes, it does not matter just much colder it gets. You can be in every bit as much trouble at 31 degrees as at -31 degrees. If I put a glass of water in a fridge set to 31, it will eventually turn to ice. If I put the glass in a fridge at -31F, it turns to ice much faster. Either way it is ice and it will do damage.

Getting back to you and your much more lucky neighbor - does he keep his RV in a barn? Less wind is a good thing. Does he have a lot of skylights in his barn? Solar gain is still heat, even in the winter. There are things you can do to improve the odds.

Bob

[Alex AVI]

TOBBUN - I am not sure if I belong in the region designated as south, though I feel our winters are mild enough to be part of the south or southwest. Being a newbie at this, I plan on fully winterizing with the 3 steps - drain, purge lines with pressurized air, and antifreeze after reading the posts in the Winterizing w Antifreeze thread.

My main reason for doing is so I can be comfortable with the process. Everyone says it ain't that hard. But everything to me is hard until I get to experience it. But will only do so based on how the temps trend down. I plan to watch forecasts like a hawk and decide when to winterize. But I have a better buffer in that my AI is in enclosed garage. Not heated, not insulated but it's 3 walls are buffered by living space. Garage door is not insulated.

Looking to read more posts here. Thanks for bringing this up.

[Titus]

Alex
Have you put a thermometer in the garage to compare to outside temperature? From what you describe I would guess that nearing 0 outside is still 32+ inside. Does LV ever get down to 0?

We have an ICF house. The two ICF walls between garage and house serve to keep the garage from getting much heat from the house (bad for keeping garage warm) but the two outside ICF walls of the garage keep the garage from losing heat. And our garage doors are insulated. In our case it has to get below 0 outside for there to be ice on the garage floor - and above floor level it stays above freezing even longer. It may be that you only need to winterize if/when you take it on the road.

[OTRA15]

Well said, Titus.

[billrector]

We are just an hour west of you in Fort Worth. While it is very possible to make it through the winter without winterizing, I winterize every year. For me, it comes down to risk/reward ration. The risk is that you have several thousand in damages while the reward only takes, at most, a few hours to blow out the lines. We have had winters here were the low was 27 degrees and we have had winters where we did not hit 27 for days. The former is not a problem....but the later

[jimfa440]

Hey HowieE, how does it feel to be "supersized"?

[twrastall]

If you don’t consider the wind factor, inside a barn is sometimes colder then outside temps. No sun etc.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by jimfa440

Hey HowieE, how does it feel to be "supersized"?

JIMFA440 - Did not catch this at first when I read HOWIEE post. Until I read it again after seeing your post. Dang spellcheckers.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by twrastall

If you don’t consider the wind factor, inside a barn is sometimes colder then outside temps. No sun etc.

Hi

Quite true in the heat of the day (yes, 50 degrees is "heat of the day if that is the high ...). The same averaging process also works at night. The outdoor temperature goes down to 25 degrees and the barn never gets below 32 degrees.

Bob

[Scott59]

I live in Atlanta and I will plug in and set the furnace to 45 or so if it looks like the temps will go below freezing at night and then back in the 40’s or 50’s in the day. If it’s going to stay near freezing or below for more than 6-10 hours I go ahead and drain hot water tank, and pump in the antifreeze. I also do this by Thanksgiving as we normally are done taking it out by then. Pumping in the antifreeze and draining the hot water tank is very easy to do, only takes 20 minutes and you are fully protected.

[jimfa440]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

JIMFA440 - Did not catch this at first when I read HOWIEE post. Until I read it again after seeing your post. Dang spellcheckers.

Alex, that just hit my funny bone.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

While I agree with your bottom line statement, I thought wind chill only affected living things. Does wind on an inanimate object actually lower temperature?

Aluminum is not affected by ‘Wind Chill’ , Ambient Temperature is the measurement we need to worry about for winterizing trailers specifically Ambient temperature below which water freezes.

[Titus]

At the risk of getting too technical - or as my wife would say 'going, Sheldon'

The wind does not lower the air temperature (except for the minor drop in pressure and temperature in what a previous post called the venturi effect). Rather, the wind cools the object off faster (gets it down to the air temperature sooner). Without wind the object loses heat by conduction and radiation. With wind the object loses heat by conduction, radiation, and convection.

Keeping the Interstate in a barn will block it from radiating heat to the night sky (whose temperature is near absolute 0) and stop convection loss (no wind) and it lessens conduction loss a little since the temperature in the barn is a few degrees higher than the outside temperature.

Radiation loss can be significant. You can get frost on the grass on a calm clear night when the air temperature is far above freezing. The top of the grass loses heat due to radiation far faster than it gains heat by conduction from the ground up to the tip of the grass. On a windy night the temperature of the tip of the grass is kept warm by convection and on a cloudy night the grass cannot 'see' (can radiate heat to) the night sky.

So, while conduction and convection get the object down to the air temperature, radiation can actually get it below the air temperature.