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Old 10-09-2024, 08:36 PM   #1
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2015 Interstate Grand Tour
Salem , New Hampshire
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Van Winter Use Project

When we get back home, I’m going to start a big project of getting our van four season ready as best as I can. So please chime in on this thread with advice, product recommendations or recommendations in general. I think that it will be helpful for all that have thought about doing this as I feel that there is a need for this for folks that want use their vans in the winter as we do with either semi or full operation use. I still don’t understand why Airstream doesn’t offer this as an option as there are some manufacturers that do. A missed market for sure IMO.

Previously I had semi insulated the tanks and drainage plumbing along with some 120 VAC heating tape but this time around I plan to go all out to try to insulate them fully along with heating them with some 12v heating cable. The 120 VAC heating tape takes up way too much power and the reason that I want to go the 12v route this time around.

I ordered a new fresh and grey water tank from Colonial Airstream along with a new macerator bracket. I previously modified our macerator bracket when I added the additional gravity fed dump station. I’m planning on redoing this as well as I like having the flexibility just in case the macerator pump breaks down when on the road. The plan includes getting the macerator, the electric dump valves and macerator hose housing area heated as well.

I will be dropping both tanks and installing new resistive tank sensors inside the tanks and a ball valve on the grey tank as an emergency back up to drain the grey tank if need be. This ball valve will be controlled via a relay from the Victron Cerbo GX that will open and close and the resistive tank monitors will also be wired to the Cerbo’s tank sensors slot and viewable on the GX monitor.

While at it, I’m also going to replace both Auto Drain valves, exterior plumbing pipes and doubling the new tank heating pads to cover the entirety of the bottom of the tanks. The plan is also to run all new 12v heating tape under the new insulation and found a good Canadian company that makes it.

So this is the plan and I’ve started to order the parts. Since heating the tanks and drain lines will take power, I’ve also ordered two new Epoch 460 Ah batteries that are heated, have Victron Comms and built in 500 A Class-T fuses. So we will have a total of 920Ah’s to power up our consumption needs from the current 600 Ah’s that we currently have.

I know it sounds like an impossible task but I have faith that it can be done.

Any ideas or recommendations that anyone can think of to make this job easier?

Below are some of the products that we’ve ordered so far but still plan to get more items as we go.

Grey, Fresh Water Tanks and macerator bracket already ordered from Colonial Airstream.:
https://www.colonialairstream.com/ai...g2Uv-t6uVIJFIc

460 Ah Epoch Batteries:
https://www.epochbatteries.com/produ...-victron-comms

12v Self Regulating Heating Cable:
https://heatline.com

Grey Tank Ball Valve:
https://a.co/d/d5DtJwv

Barker Auto Drains:
https://a.co/d/0i7HdtH

On the fence about these dump valve heating pads due to the reviews and might just use the 12v heating cable instead:
https://a.co/d/2YYdyvE

Heating pads:
I haven’t measured the tanks yet as I’m in the road but will choose the best quality ones that I can find.
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Old 10-09-2024, 09:08 PM   #2
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I forgot to add the KUS tank monitors for the grey and fresh water tanks:
https://a.co/d/iUsInDV
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Old 10-10-2024, 02:30 PM   #3
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Wow, what a project! I'll be watching with interest.

Is there a particular goal in terms of how low a temp you want to be able to camp in, or is it more about seeing how much improvement is possible?
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Old 10-10-2024, 04:22 PM   #4
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That’s impressive. Good luck on that will be great once complete.
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Old 10-10-2024, 08:44 PM   #5
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Thanks guys. I’m really looking forward to this project. I want to be able to go down to about 0 degrees. Average temp in NH is about low twenties on average. However, we do go on many trips to visit family in the Northeast so that is the bigger reason to set this up. We also will travel through colder weather often when heading into warmer climates.

Most of our camping is boondocking so if any campgrounds are still open that is a plus for the power.

Come to think of it, I’m going to revisit adding both the black and grey tank valves secondary switches inside again as I’m going to have everything apart. On the first go around, I added a remote macerator switch in the inside so adding both dump valves would be a bonus and I’ll look into adding to those too again.
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Old 10-14-2024, 08:40 PM   #6
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Epoch Batteries

We got home yesterday from our 17 day trip and the first leg of the project was sitting in our garage. I took the batteries out of the box and that in itself was a project. These batteries are not too different size wise from the LifeBlue 300 Ah ones. These weigh 97 lbs coming in 10 lbs heavier than the LifeBlue’s. Size wise these are 20.9 x 8.7 x 12.1 and the LifeBlue’s are 20.5 x 9.24 x 11 so there won’t be an issue putting them in the same spot. Both the manufacturers have heaters and the Epochs can be charged way down into -4 degrees and the LifeBlues down to -5.

The only con that ticked me off is that they didn’t come with the floor mounts but did include bolts for them. I don’t mind paying for them but at least give the option when purchasing them or increase the price to include the floor mounts. However, I do like that they have a built in 500 A Class-T fuse and both a power switch on the battery and a remote one as well. The icing on the cake is the Victron Comms to be able to communicate with the rest of system especially to take full advantage of the DDVC feature.

I put one on a Victron Lithium charger as they both came in 28% charged up so I’m going to let each one sit on the charger for a while and wait until all the cells balance out. With the app, you’re able to see all the individual cells and see when they have all evened out. Overall these look very solid and the case seems pretty robust.

On another note - I got lucky today and was able to score a Victron Multiplus 3K, a MPPT 100/50, a new BMV 712 Shunt, a new bluetooth dongle, a Sterling DC-DC Charger, three brand new 265 watt solar panels and a bunch of breakers, lights, cable etc. on Craigslist for $750. Someone had an Airport shuttle bus project that they could not complete due to some major engine problems etc. They’re throwing in the towel on the project and want to get the bus off their property so I was able to score a good deal. At least I now have a back-up inverter just in case. The solar panels are going to be setup as a ground array when parked at home to supplement the roof panels. I just need to wire them up to our existing ground array plug that I previously set up.

When I ordered the tanks from Colonial, they did say that Airstream was out about 4-6 weeks on those but it gives me a chance to do a bunch of prep work anyway.
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Old 10-15-2024, 04:59 PM   #7
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I’ve had the first battery sitting on the Victron charger for 24 hours charging at 15A’s and finally each cell settled in a t 13.40v’s after sitting on the charger that long. The second one is now going on the charger. I gave Epoch a call to find out what their recommended cell range was and they said between 13.2 and 13.4 so we are good to go with the first battery.

The batteries come with all the cables needed for installing them in parallel as I’m going to do. They provide plenty long cables to be able to reach a distance so that is also a plus. They have all the included cables to connect them in parallel, to the Victron Cerbo, remote battery on/off switch and a remote energy meter battery monitor.
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Old 10-17-2024, 04:50 PM   #8
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Great Customer Service

Ok, sometimes you just have to acknowledge great customer service regardless of who it comes from. I’m not a fan of and never have been a fan of Battle Born batteries. To each their own and I’m not knocking them in any way so please don’t send your negative comments my way. If you have them and are happy - good for you. I also belong to the DIY Solar Power Forum and you can do your own research on Battle Born batteries. My current batteries that I’m replacing are two LifeBlue 300 Ah’s one that I’ve had no issues with but just need more Ah’s. I’ve have many conversations with Larry @ LifeBlue batteries via email and phone and he has always provided me a quick response and great customer service and I’ve heard the same from Battle Born’s customer service. I bought and paid for our Epoch batteries so that’s my biggest knock on Battle Borns as they give out free batteries for reviews on YouTube. Even Explorist Life is beholden to them as that is one of his sponsors and on his last Live YouTube video he even said that BattleBorn is the only battery that he recommends so that says a lot to me.

Rant off.

I first contacted Epoch Batteries before I even got home and asked about additional fusing besides the 500 A Class-T fuse that is built in. I wanted to know if I could still keep my additional 400 A Class-T fuse that I had about one foot form the batteries and the separate 300A terminal MRBF fuses that were on the positive sides of the the batteries. They actually said that it was ok and highly recommended it so that ’s exactly what I’m going to do.

The second call - I wasn’t able to get a hold of anybody and didn’t leave a message. Low and behold, I got a call back and they said that they missed my call. The second call was regarding charging and how full should the cells get before I should take it off the charger. They answered my question.

My last call was today. Again, they didn’t pick up immediately but managed to call me back again saying that they’ve missed my call. This time I was kinda frustrated as I thought initially that the cabling was long enough but it wasn’t. I was short about six feet each on the remote battery on/off switch and the Cerbo GX. They said that they have heard the same feedback on van and trailer installs and they are now working on providing longer cables. I also took the chance to complain about them not providing the brackets or an option to do so on their website when ordering and he said that they have heard that too and will be fixing it. They are now making me some new cables at no additional charge that will work for our installation. Overall, I’m happy with their responses and although they are pricey so far I’m happy but I will not hesitate to call them out if I need to.
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Old 10-20-2024, 05:52 PM   #9
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Great project! Thanks for posting about it. Looking forward to photos as things are installed!
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Old 10-22-2024, 04:10 PM   #10
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Quite the project you have taken on. Looking forward to your updates.

I am curious what wire gauge you are using with that much power and fuse size? I freely admit I am an electrical idiot. When I did my conversion at the beginning of Covid my head was spinning with battery amperage, wire length, etc… Ultimately the only wire available was machine tool wiring, all black….
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Old 10-22-2024, 07:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Heckler56 View Post
Quite the project you have taken on. Looking forward to your updates.

I am curious what wire gauge you are using with that much power and fuse size? I freely admit I am an electrical idiot. When I did my conversion at the beginning of Covid my head was spinning with battery amperage, wire length, etc… Ultimately the only wire available was machine tool wiring, all black….

I actually got the batteries installed today.

The wiring that is in place when I did my initial install and a few updates in between is what I’m using and going to keep. This is why I’m always preaching to use the biggest cable that you can afford to use now to build for the future just in case you plan some changes down the road and luckily I did just that. Run the cable once to avoid having to re-run new cable/wires. Other than adding some different fuses in some spots - not much is going to change.

At the batteries, I have them installed in parallel using 4/0 cable. Although the batteries already each have a built in 500A Class-T fuse, I installed a 300 MRBF terminal fuse at each positive terminal. One battery has the main positive cable coming from another 400A Class-T fuse going to it and the other has the main negative cable coming from the Victron BMV 712 Shunt. The cables coming from both batteries to the shunt and a 350A Blue Seas master cutoff switch are 4/0 as well.

The battery cables going into the Victron Multiplus 3K from the Lynx Distributor are also 4/0 including the ground cable going to the Multiplus and the ground cable from the shunt going to the chassis frame.

AC in from the shore power SmartPlug is 10/3 AWG SOOW cable as it more flexible to maneuver. The shore power cable and the generator cable both go to a Surge Guard Automatic Transfer Switch / Surge Protector. From the Surge Guard it use to go into the Multiplus inverter but since we added a Hughes AutoFormer, it now it goes into a hardwired RV 30A outlet. If we want to use the Hughes AutoFormer - we plug the cable coming from the Surge Guard into the Hughes AutoFormer and the cable from the autoformer to the RV 30A plug. When the Hughes AutoFormer is not in use or if we don’t want to use it - we just leave the cable from the surge Guard plugged into the 30A plug. From the 30A RV plug it goes into a 30A baby breaker box in order to cutoff power to the inverter if need be into the Multiplus AC In.

The AC Out from the Multiplus inverter to the breaker panel is 6 AWG SOOW cable. The reason that you want 6 AWG cable form the Multiplus to the electrical panel is because when the Power Assist function kicks in on the inverter, you can easily pass through close to 50 amps when tied to shore power and 6 AWG is rated for 50A’s. At the breaker panel, I also have a 50A double pole breaker. I ended up replacing the whole breaker / fuse panel in order to be able to add additional breakers on the right side too. Now don’t get me wrong - this NOT a 50A van. I have the additional breakers but know that I have to manage what I have on and what’s coming in from shore or generator. The Victron Multiplus is only rated for 2400 watts. However, 2400 watts plus the generator or if on shore power - you can see how easily you can get close to 50a’s with a few appliances on and with Power Assist activated.

For the Airstream 12v fuse panel and the added additional Blue Seas 12v fuse box that I installed - both have 6 AWG going to the Lynx Distributor and each have a 100A MRBF terminal fuse. I also ended up adding a second Victron Shunt installed as a DC Meter in order to properly track just the 12V system and to fully take advantage of the DDVC option on the Cerbo GX. For this shunt I used a 1 AWG going to the first shunt and 6 AWG coming from both 12V fuse panel negatives.

The roof array Victron MPPT 100/50 has a 70 mega fuse and the ground array 100/30 MPPT has a 40A mega fuse at the Lynx distributor. The ground array also has another 40 Blue Seas resettable fuse before it enters the combined solar cut off switch. This one fuse is a bit much but I don’t like to plug in the ground array without having the power shutoff and don’t want to have to shut the roof array down every time I want to plug in the ground array. On the roof, all four panels go into an AM Solar combiner box using 10 AWG coated cable. From the combiner box into the solar cutoff switch and to the Lynx Distributor is 6 AWG cable. At the four 100A solar panels, each has its own 15A fuse with SAE quick connectors. This way it’s easy to disconnect them when I need to troubleshoot and test each individual panel.

I think that I covered all of the install in a nutshell but let me know if you have any questions. The parts for this project are also slowly coming in which is good as the weather is still nice to get started.
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Old 10-22-2024, 08:00 PM   #12
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Some additional pics:
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Old 10-22-2024, 09:09 PM   #13
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50A Orions XS

Actually I forgot about the two Victron 50A Orions XS for DC-DC charging. These were wired with 1/0 cables from the Lynx Distributor to the Orions buss bars. From the chassis battery it already came with 1/0 wire from the Airstream factory. So I took that cable and put it on a Blue Seas cutoff switch in order to be able to shut it down for troubleshooting or if need be. I ended up wiring the generator 2 AWG start cable to the chassis side of the switch. The generator now starts from the chassis AGM batteries. This way is better just in case I have drawn down the house batteries way down. However, I wouldn’t hesitate one bit to put it on a lithium battery for starting if I didn’t have a choice despite what many nay sayers say.

I also ran a 1/0 negative cable from the chassis ground point stud underneath the seat to the Orions XS negative ground buss bar under the passenger jump seat. Yeah, that was fun!!! Since I already have a cutoff switch from the chassis side and Airstream also installed a 150A Midi fuse next to the chassis battery, I decided to add a Blue Seas 60a resettable fuse for each Orion XS out side. The max gauge that the Orions accept is 4 AWG so I had to go with this and what a PITA to get the wire into the Orions. Personally, I prefer not use ferrules on thinly stranded wire so I didn’t and besides Victron also has a love/hate relationship with them on certain products. Since I don’t trust any ignition detection software for starting a charger as wonky things can happen when based on voltage, I wired both Orions to the Sprinter D+ wire so that the Orions only come on when the engine is on.

Now just because I’m an information dork, I also added a Victron Smart Battery Sense to each Orion to be able to monitor the temperature for each and also added some fans that are controlled by a thermostat when they get hot. Now contrary to what every one thinks - these get hot as I’ve been monitoring them for a while now.
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Old 10-23-2024, 01:16 PM   #14
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Wow! Beyond impressive. You have now introduced me to a bunch of devices I have no clue about but I will research ��. I too installed on/off switches at every “system” to assist in maintenance or diagnosis of any issues in the future. LB2 influenced my build with the concept of isolating systems.

Luckily for me getting the machine tool wiring I can handle any upgrades in the future.

Have you considered swapping out the propane stove to an induction hot plate now that you have all this energy?
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Old 10-24-2024, 07:30 AM   #15
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Wow! Beyond impressive. You have now introduced me to a bunch of devices I have no clue about but I will research ��. I too installed on/off switches at every “system” to assist in maintenance or diagnosis of any issues in the future. LB2 influenced my build with the concept of isolating systems.

Luckily for me getting the machine tool wiring I can handle any upgrades in the future.

Have you considered swapping out the propane stove to an induction hot plate now that you have all this energy?

Thank you. That was good advice from LB2 which I agree with. Isolating every component makes it so much easier to troubleshoot if you run into issues but it also makes it easier to swap out a component if fails. It really doesn’t take too much effort to install these during the initial install too if you plan accordingly.

My wife never liked the propane cooktop so two years ago I removed it and installed a two burner induction cooktop in its place. I capped the propane line under that cabinet area with plans to remove it from underneath. That propane line runs right along the grey tank underneath the van and I’m finally going to be able to pull it off when I drop the tank.
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Old 10-25-2024, 08:27 PM   #16
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Overall, I’m happy with their responses and although they are pricey so far I’m happy but I will not hesitate to call them out if I need to.
Ok, here is my first knock on them on post # 6. Again, I paid for these and they were not giving to me for a review!


https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37...ch-255630.html
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