Twin versus Lounge...Pros and Cons

[73shark]

Can you post a picture or diagram of your U-shaped arrangement?

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by 73shark

Can you post a picture or diagram of your U-shaped arrangement?

I've posted these before, but here they are again.
With bedding stored.

With mattress toppers rolled out.



- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

[Boxster1971]

Hit send too fast. Here are some photos of how I modified the side seats by removing the heavy jackknife frame and seat backs.
Right side seat base.

Left side seat base.

Left side seat base lifted to show the hinges I added. It's now a lot easier to access the under seat storage bins.

Right side seat base lifted also shows the wood spacer blocks I added to keep seat base level. I've managed to get good at matching to Onyx interior cabinet colors.
Enjoy.....


- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

[73shark]

Looks good and you only had to sacrifice one seating position.

[weirdstuff]

Boxster...I love what you've done. Husband and I talked about doing the exact same thing. Just never got around to it. But if we ever do, I'm gonna pull up these images of yours, 'cause it's perfect for us!

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

As others pointed out there are no seat belts for the twin beds.
....

- - Mike
2013 Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

It depends on the year. The older T1N Interstates do have lap belts with the "twin-like" beds (which actually converge to a queen bed in the rear version but remain twin-like in the mid-version, as I understand it). In the attached bed up / bed down photo, you cannot see them because they are tucked into the crease of each jack-knife couch. But there are four of them - two on each side.

In fact, that was one of the main reasons why we chose this model - because it has a total of six seat belts while not wasting precious space up front for two extra captain's chairs that we don't need. Best of both worlds, we thought.

Now, whether or not a person could legally retrofit a newer Interstate and install only lap belts on lateral twin beds - that I do not know. I have been assuming that, because Airstream installed those lap belts in the 2007 AIs, they at least met legal requirements for belting 8 years ago when the thing was built. I don't know if the standards have changed since then. Maybe now it would be required to have shoulder straps back there too.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

It depends on the year.

After reading FMVSS 208, which is the Federal requirement for type and placement of seat belts, it appears that side-facing seats in a motorhome with a GVWR under 10,000 pounds— which would include T1N Interstates— are required to have lap belts (i.e. Type 1 restraints), but not shoulder harnesses (i.e Type 2 restraints).

But I may be misreading something— all FMVSS are written in Governmentese and do not include subtitles for the non-lawmaker— so if you intend to modify your rear seats/beds you may want to look up FMVSS 208 for yourself to find out the requirements, and then install belts that meet the technical (strength) requirements of FMVSS 209 and the anchorage requirements of FMVSS 210.

[Rosie39j]

Lots of great input. Thanks!

Anyone want to weigh in on whether it's comfortable to ride back in the lounge while underway in the lounge setup? I guess it can't be too bad given that's the intent ...

Wish there was a design with bath at back and lounge more midship bt the axles for smoother ride ...

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

After reading FMVSS 208, which is the Federal requirement for type and placement of seat belts, it appears that side-facing seats in a motorhome with a GVWR under 10,000 pounds— which would include T1N Interstates— are required to have lap belts (i.e. Type 1 restraints), but not shoulder harnesses (i.e Type 2 restraints).

But I may be misreading something— all FMVSS are written in Governmentese and do not include subtitles for the non-lawmaker— so if you intend to modify your rear seats/beds you may want to look up FMVSS 208 for yourself to find out the requirements, and then install belts that meet the technical (strength) requirements of FMVSS 209 and the anchorage requirements of FMVSS 210.

If time were an infinite resource, I would research whether there is any evidence of a material difference in survivability (or disability) outcomes between Type 1 and Type 2 in motorhome crash scenarios. I've wondered this at times when we've been flying down the road and one or the other of us has been back there belted in, aircraft-style (I'm thinking of the old Southwest Airlines planes where they had lounge seating in certain areas and not everybody with a lap belt was facing forward). It's an awfully specific scenario involving many variables, but then again, there are at least 9 million motorhomes on the road in the U.S., so crash data might exist somewhere in the deep recesses of the internet.

It matters because, if I were an owner contemplating either a partial conversion or a customized build, I'd want to know. Personally I would not care whether Type 2 was mandated by regulation - I'd want to know whether it was justified by data, or whether it was more a case of a federal government blanket order.

[73shark]

Originally Posted by Rosie39j

Anyone want to weigh in on whether it's comfortable to ride back in the lounge while underway in the lounge setup? I guess it can't be too bad given that's the intent ...

Wish there was a design with bath at back and lounge more midship bt the axles for smoother ride ...

After monitoring this forum for 4 years, I think the consensus of opinion on the ride in the rear varies from rough to a sub-orbital launching pad.

I agree with your idea about putting a bath in the rear. Have thought about that if I was to ever having an upfitter build an RV for me.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Rosie39j

Anyone want to weigh in on whether it's comfortable to ride back in the lounge while underway in the lounge setup? I guess it can't be too bad given that's the intent ...

Better in a Sprinter 2500 like the T1N than in a Sprinter 3500, which is more akin to riding in the back seat of a school bus. The T1N has a lower GWVR, different rear springs and shocks, and the interior fittings bring you closer to the vehicle's GWVR besides so the rear springs are pre-loaded to an extent. But you're still sitting behind the rear wheels, and so every bounce is amplified by the same lever arm principle that makes catapults work.

[73shark]

Rosie39j: If you are considering a new Interstate, might want to check out the VB air suspension option.

[Norrie46]

In our 30 ft Flying Cloud we use both the bed in the back and the settee in front for sleeping. We bought an IKEA mattress top for the settee and it's perfect. They come in twin and double sizes. Very comfortable.

[J&J In A Can]

On the subject of twin beds, the 2016 twin beds have four bolsters that wedge in under the window on both sides. These are fairly comfortable back rests for sitting on the bed like a couch. Unfortunately, Airstream does not supply any kind of cover for them (at least not for ours), so they look like a piece of mattress sitting there. Has anyone come up with a nice looking cover for the bolsters, or do we need to have something custom made? Airstream isn’t much help on this subject. Thanks in advance.

[InterBlog]

A post-script to this older thread. We saw our first GT Twin today - our local Holiday World got a 2016 in, and we took a tour. A few observations, because the GT Twin is the closest living relative to our 2007 T1N Rear Sleeper (RS), and some of this perspective might be relevant to people who are considering Twin vs. other options including the rip it apart / self-upgrade option where bedding is concerned.

(1) Obviously there are many more posh features to the 2016 GT versus the 2007 RS, but both my husband and I prefer our 2007. It's less claustrophobic, the bathroom doesn't stick out and restrict the aisle width, and the overall cabinetry feel is much less ominously heavy in our T1N (and not as intensely masculine). My husband continues to lament what he swears is a lower ceiling height in the T1N, and I would love to have that larger GT fridge if it worked reliably, but on balance, I would not be inclined to trade even if I were offered an even trade.

(2) The Twin's mattresses are no bueno in my opinion. Neither comfortable nor versatile. If we ever ended up with a GT for any reason, they would have to be replaced. I don't even see how they could be supplemented with additional materials to overcome their shortcomings because they are structurally not what either my husband or I need to sleep well.

Obviously bed comfort is a matter of personal taste and it has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads, this next bit ought to give you an idea of how much we like sleeping on the T1N's jack-knife couches. On our recent US-Canada trip, an entire large master bedroom with a custom mattress on a queen sized bed was reserved for us at the cottage my family was sharing. We turned it down - we slept in the Interstate in the driveway. That's how much better the T1N's jack-knife couches are vs. most other options.

The point being, one doesn't have to live with crappy Class B bed quality - better options are out there, somewhere. My husband says our couches have an Atwood tag on them. I plan to run down exactly what product that is, for future reference.

(3) The GT Twin is indeed a true 2-seater - there are only 2 seat belts and it does not appear as if a modification could be easily done to correct this. That's a non-starter in my opinion. It's just not necessary - it removes so much versatility. No way I would be working in the rear at my computer desk in a GT Twin. Our 2007 has 6 seat belts plus the ability to place a pedestal table in the rear.

(4) This disturbed me mightily: The Twin's couch beds were intended for one-way sleeping only - heads toward the rear doors (because there is cabinetry obstructing the opposite direction). This would not work for us as mainly-boondockers for the following reasons:

(a) We tend to flip end-to-end at will if I'm too exhausted to level the Interstate when we arrive at our overnight stops (boondock spots are rarely level and head must always be uphill). Being too exhausted occurs on a regular basis, so this is important. Easier to flip the bod than to flip the Interstate.

(b) If we sleep with the doors open and rear screen in place, obviously the feet must be toward the doors because if the heads were toward the doors, the pillows would probably fall over the edge of the bed and onto the ground below, because there is no headboard-style stopper there. Nor would I wish to over-complicate things by adding one.

Nor would I want my head toward the doors with them fully open. If something approaches the Interstate in the middle of the night (animal or human), I want to be able to sit bolt upright in an immediate defensive posture, facing the open doors.

(c) If it's really hot and we're stealthing in a public place with rear doors shut and in lieu of open doors we are instead cranking the Fantastic all night long, heads are always toward the rear doors because it's quieter that way (ears are 5 to 6 feet further from the noise).

(d) If it's really cold (approaching freezing), feet are always toward the doors because the air pocket near the door is much colder than the middle of the Interstate. Sleeping bags have extra insulation in the foot chambers so this works out perfectly.

^^ Little things, but for boondockers, the quality of life difference is quite perceptible when these general guidelines are abided by. It makes the difference between a better sleep and a worse sleep.

Those are a few mostly-bed-related observations that might be relevant to people who are considering the GT Twin model, especially if they are inclined toward adventuring and boondocking extensively.

[bugsbunny]

The storage compartment under the floor is a benefit if extra storage is needed. As far as
I know, this storage compartment comes only with the sofa option that does not have the 4x4 or VB.

[amirm]

IB, the twin bed configuration was the #1 reason we bought our AI. I did a trial "sleep" on the seat configuration and found it very problematic. I know you can put a mattress on them but still, I much prefer the flat plywood base of our twin bed.

The bedding material is some kind of memory foam. I plan to get it replaced as it builds up too much memory making it hard for me to turn from one position to another. My wife is fine with it. We don't change our sleeping direction so that is fine with us. Nor do we sleep with the rear doors open although if we wanted to do that, there are screens.

Instead we use the side windows and fantastic fan to modulate air flow. This is nice because each person has full control of amount of air flow over them. With two windows, you can decide whether you want air flow over your head, your chest or both. Pretty nice.

Likewise we had the chance to get it with more than two seating. But gave that up happily to gain the much longer countertop, and wardrobe which we use half way for that, and half as a pantry.

We do our electronic work using tablets and phones so don't have your requirement for a workstation for two. There is one using the driver's seat but we don't even use that.

Someone said a great thing on one of the forums: buy the configuration that is best for you, than accommodating others riding with you once in awhile. How true. We optimized for the two of us and hence have no other seating positions. It is so nice to not have extra space taken up by second row of seats. And the very long hallway is a joy to have as you can pass through anything from front to pack. With two rather large dogs travelling with us, that is a very important option for us.

It is wonderful that Airstream makes all of these configurations so that people can choose what fits best for them.

[c21]

Ditto on the twin. My wife and I opted for the twin as it is always just the 2 of us. We do have the 3rd seat which my wife will often use when we're in traffic as she gets a bit nervous. We have found that we have ample storage including over a weeks worth of clothes. The wardrobe is an awesome feature on these coaches. On long trips we use a hitch mounted cargo box for outdoor stuff like cord, hoses, chemicals, surge surpressor, spares etc. On long trips we will occasionally spend a night in a hotel to stretch out and catch up on laundry. We find the AI twins to be very comfortable and we like the fact that they are always made up. We never use the onboard shower instead using showers at the rv parks we normally stay at. We use the pull out table behind the driver seat for a small laptop we take along and take turns using it. We have been on 2, 30+ day 8,000+ mile trips and the AI simply put: works well for us.

[UKDUDE]

If you have an external storage box or tow a box trailer, then you probably don't worry about storage so much. But we carry folding bikes, lounge chairs, small grille and a telescopic ladder, and the only place for those is flat under the sofa. I'd never be able to find room for those items in a twin.

[mineralfarme]

Love to Wander, did you ever find a source for the bolster covers or are we going to have to have them custom-made?