Toilet leak at base - due to dealer work

[ylwjacket]

A few months ago, I had a water leak by the toilert I'm under warranty, so I went to the dealer. 7 weeks later, I got my coach back. It had a leaky flush valve.

So, I went on my first road trip after it getting it back, and on the first flush, it's leaking like crazy. Great, no toilet for 5 days.

I get back, look at the work order, and figure out what's happening.

See the pics. The flange seal was so badly misaligned, there is no way they could've even test flushed it after the repair or it they would've seen it.

It wasn't even on the stem on the toilet. When I took the toilet off, it stayed behind.

I took off the toilet, and put on a new flange seal, and it's fine now. It was also pretty work out.

I can not believe a dealer would do this. I won't ever go back there. If they failed that badly at this, I can't imagine what else they would do.

So, not I have a super expensive extended warranty I bought, I am doing everything myself.

I will have to try to find another place to go in case something I don't want to deal with comes up, but this is pretty awful work.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Keep in mind that "dealers" only get that rating based on sales. Service (apparently) does not figure into that that in any way at all. What you get for service / repairs / warranty work is very much in the "who knows / who cares" region.

Yes, some dealers do a pretty good job. A number of them are absolutely and completely terrible when it comes to service. There is (apparently) no control at all over this.

Bob

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

A few months ago, I had a water leak by the toilert I'm under warranty, so I went to the dealer. 7 weeks later, I got my coach back. It had a leaky flush valve.

So, I went on my first road trip after it getting it back, and on the first flush, it's leaking like crazy. Great, no toilet for 5 days.

I get back, look at the work order, and figure out what's happening.

See the pics. The flange seal was so badly misaligned, there is no way they could've even test flushed it after the repair or it they would've seen it.

It wasn't even on the stem on the toilet. When I took the toilet off, it stayed behind.

I took off the toilet, and put on a new flange seal, and it's fine now. It was also pretty work out.

I can not believe a dealer would do this. I won't ever go back there. If they failed that badly at this, I can't imagine what else they would do.

So, not I have a super expensive extended warranty I bought, I am doing everything myself.

I will have to try to find another place to go in case something I don't want to deal with comes up, but this is pretty awful work.

Thanks for posting this. Anyone with reasonable skills can do a better job than most RV dealers. My old 2013 Interstate, purchased new, only made one visit to Airstream dealer for recalled propane regulator shortly after I purchased it. I did all my own maintenance and upgrades for the Airstream side. I did have a Mercedes/Freightliner do all the Sprinter maintenance. Traded the 2013 on my 2024 Interstate 19. Old van had 185,000 miles when I traded it.

[SeeMore]

If you are new to RVing you will want to review video content at this link to 1) better understand the systems you'll encounter, 2) learn more about how they work, and 3) discover needed maintenance/repair insights: https://www.youtube.com/@MyRVWorks

As you dive into RVing, be aware that shaking your mobile residence plays havoc with all the systems and necessitates regular fix-it activities as you chalk up the mileage to/from your destinations. Beyond the basic automotive systems which are fairly reliable, all the 'house' stuff will astonish you with the repair frequency. Having the simple tools and knowledge to tackle most issues that arise adds substantially to enhancing your enjoyment and making the Rv life affordable.

If you have the knack and aptitude to get serious about DIY repair vs enduring long wait times for expensive shop repairs, investigate further here: https://rveducation101.com

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Keep in mind that "dealers" only get that rating based on sales. Service (apparently) does not figure into that that in any way at all. What you get for service / repairs / warranty work is very much in the "who knows / who cares" region.

Yes, some dealers do a pretty good job. A number of them are absolutely and completely terrible when it comes to service. There is (apparently) no control at all over this.

Bob

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"A number of them are absolutely and completely terrible when it comes to service. There is (apparently) no control at all over this."

Right on Bob! Airstream appears totally indifferent to this fact.

[WBB]

To echo Bob's comments, I think there are more bad ones than good ones. As an example, I dropped my van off twice for a very minor fix under warranty (the seat back pockets were not stitched at the bottom). Neither time did they even touch the seats and that was what we brought it in for! This was Airstream of Austin and in my opinion, the manager did not have a clue how to run the service dept.

I did have a good experience having some warranty work done at Airstream in SLC, so there are good ones out there.

As an aside, I noticed Blue Compass (BC) has purchased a number of dealerships and dealership groups. BC is private equity backed and, having worked in several private equity backed companies, I would guess they will want management to explain the poor performance of their services departments. Will it get better? Who knows, but BC has invested hundreds of millions in these dealerships and new facilities so I doubt they will tolerate management at underperforming dealerships for long. Hopefully...

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DaveG

-------
"A number of them are absolutely and completely terrible when it comes to service. There is (apparently) no control at all over this."

Right on Bob! Airstream appears totally indifferent to this fact.

Hi

If you look around, there really aren't many AS dealers out there. Compare to the number of dealers 30 years ago and it's nearly none at all. If they "fire" 80% of them, where do you go to buy an AS? Simple answer you buy something else and AS goes out of business.

Bob

[Bill M.]

I think Airstream dealers are dealerships that will buy a lot of Airstream trailers and stock and resell them. Part of the Airstream wholesale distribution and supply system. Not so much emphasis on quality of service.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I think Airstream dealers are dealerships that will buy a lot of Airstream trailers and stock and resell them. Part of the Airstream wholesale distribution and supply system. Not so much emphasis on quality of service.

Hi

Just like a car, truck, boat, or airplane dealer (or any other RV dealer) .... you have inventory. That's how the system works for a lot of other things as well. With the "big stuff", shipping and transport are not at all fast.

Folks walk in and want to see "the real thing". If you have no inventory, that's not going to happen. Folks walk in, fall in love with this item and want one. The best answer will always be "you can have it today". Inventory sitting at the factory that nobody can see / nobody can buy "right now" .... not going to help much.

That part of the process (selling RV's) is what keeps AS in business. Sales more than service is what pumps money to the dealer's bottom line. No sales and they both have a very big problem.

Sure, parts inventory would be nice. Chat with the parts guy about inventory management (or read any of a billion papers on the subject). No parts inventory at the dealership .... tough time with service. Service would be nice, highly trained folks to do it would help with that. Chat with the techs about how many times a year they change jobs ..... yikes !!!!

Unless the amount of money in the deal is pretty massive, the factory (any of them on any of these product areas) has very little control other than shutting them down. Notice how Ford dealerships seem to be vanishing all over the place .... hmmm ..... (even there, it's sales related).

Crazy !!!!

Bob

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Just like a car, truck, boat, or airplane dealer (or any other RV dealer) .... you have inventory. That's how the system works for a lot of other things as well. With the "big stuff", shipping and transport are not at all fast.

Folks walk in and want to see "the real thing". If you have no inventory, that's not going to happen. Folks walk in, fall in love with this item and want one. The best answer will always be "you can have it today". Inventory sitting at the factory that nobody can see / nobody can buy "right now" .... not going to help much.

That part of the process (selling RV's) is what keeps AS in business. Sales more than service is what pumps money to the dealer's bottom line. No sales and they both have a very big problem.

Sure, parts inventory would be nice. Chat with the parts guy about inventory management (or read any of a billion papers on the subject). No parts inventory at the dealership .... tough time with service. Service would be nice, highly trained folks to do it would help with that. Chat with the techs about how many times a year they change jobs ..... yikes !!!!

Unless the amount of money in the deal is pretty massive, the factory (any of them on any of these product areas) has very little control other than shutting them down. Notice how Ford dealerships seem to be vanishing all over the place .... hmmm ..... (even there, it's sales related).

Crazy !!!!

Bob

------------------
Marketing is not my area but it would seem that a smart company looking down the road so to speak would understand what you have described. The AS product I own looks like it came from a fast paced and undisciplined factory. Get it out the door and sold, end of story. The dealer experience after sale has been lousy. Lousy enough that I just stopped trying even before the warranty expired. So, customer likely concludes, fool me once shame on you ...... and does not want to return. Then shares the bad quality and support stories with friends and forums. Why not factor weak dealer service into design and improve build quality? I take a truck to a small dealer for repairs. He plugs in a reader, gets a code, changes a part. The part is essentially plug and play. The AS is a rats nest of crazy wiring, plumbing, and embedded parts. Likely each unit varies a bit so nothing is consistent. Neglecting the service side must cost them sales, has to. Dealers have enjoyed a good market since Covid but not evolved to provide better support. In fact I think they have headed the opposite direction. A grocery clerk will likely demonstrate better customer support skills. I see the unique looking AS trying to put out a product which has slightly better design and components but overall the customer deals with many disappointments and frustrations which come from design, quality of build, and poor dealership support. The mom and pop dealers are going or gone. I'm guessing the void in support will eventually lead to a better future but right now owning an AS is a challenge.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DaveG

------------------
Marketing is not my area but it would seem that a smart company looking down the road so to speak would understand what you have described. The AS product I own looks like it came from a fast paced and undisciplined factory. Get it out the door and sold, end of story. The dealer experience after sale has been lousy. Lousy enough that I just stopped trying even before the warranty expired. So, customer likely concludes, fool me once shame on you ...... and does not want to return. Then shares the bad quality and support stories with friends and forums. Why not factor weak dealer service into design and improve build quality? I take a truck to a small dealer for repairs. He plugs in a reader, gets a code, changes a part. The part is essentially plug and play. The AS is a rats nest of crazy wiring, plumbing, and embedded parts. Likely each unit varies a bit so nothing is consistent. Neglecting the service side must cost them sales, has to. Dealers have enjoyed a good market since Covid but not evolved to provide better support. In fact I think they have headed the opposite direction. A grocery clerk will likely demonstrate better customer support skills. I see the unique looking AS trying to put out a product which has slightly better design and components but overall the customer deals with many disappointments and frustrations which come from design, quality of build, and poor dealership support. The mom and pop dealers are going or gone. I'm guessing the void in support will eventually lead to a better future but right now owning an AS is a challenge.

Hi

AS has been building RV's pretty much the same way ever since they started back in the 1950's. I've been listening to stories like yours since the mid 50's. There are similar stories about pretty much every competitor out there in the RV business.

The gotcha is that they make a *lot* of models and not many of them. That, more than anything else contributes to most of this problem. Cut back on models and sales drop ...

Bob

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

AS has been building RV's pretty much the same way ever since they started back in the 1950's. I've been listening to stories like yours since the mid 50's. There are similar stories about pretty much every competitor out there in the RV business.

The gotcha is that they make a *lot* of models and not many of them. That, more than anything else contributes to most of this problem. Cut back on models and sales drop ...

Bob

------
My thought is that not only is the customer getting a bad deal but so is the THO stockholder. The idea that just because AS has done a bad job for a long time it's okay to continue does not work in my mind. You can find stories about an AMC car dealer doing better than Chevy & Ford dealers in the same area because the AMC dealer gave better customer support. The owner was at the service dept. door every morning. Claim is the AMC dealer made more money.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DaveG

------
My thought is that not only is the customer getting a bad deal but so is the THO stockholder. The idea that just because AS has done a bad job for a long time it's okay to continue does not work in my mind. You can find stories about an AMC car dealer doing better than Chevy & Ford dealers in the same area because the AMC dealer gave better customer support. The owner was at the service dept. door every morning. Claim is the AMC dealer made more money.

Hi

Well, AS does a *better* job at quality than the typical Thor brand. In some cases quality is not cheap.

Bob

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Well, AS does a *better* job at quality than the typical Thor brand. In some cases quality is not cheap.

Bob

Poor quality build and lousy customer support ain't cheap either.
I like the AS product, just saying they could do sooo much better!
THO lets their brands compete with each other. Competition similar to different radio stations all in the same market but owned by the same company.
Not sure any area of the RV industry is totally legitimate. All entities suffer to some degree as a result.
✌️

[DeltaRon]

For others benefit, you should name the dealer.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DaveG

Poor quality build and lousy customer support ain't cheap either.
I like the AS product, just saying they could do sooo much better!
THO lets their brands compete with each other. Competition similar to different radio stations all in the same market but owned by the same company.
Not sure any area of the RV industry is totally legitimate. All entities suffer to some degree as a result.
✌️

Hi

The sort of thing the RV folks (small batches hand built on a line / a lot of models and sub-systems) has been analyzed to death in thousands of papers. It is a classic example of an area where "quality is very expensive".

Bob

[03enduro]

Originally Posted by DaveG

------
My thought is that not only is the customer getting a bad deal but so is the THO stockholder. The idea that just because AS has done a bad job for a long time it's okay to continue does not work in my mind. You can find stories about an AMC car dealer doing better than Chevy & Ford dealers in the same area because the AMC dealer gave better customer support. The owner was at the service dept. door every morning. Claim is the AMC dealer made more money.

Not many AMC dealers out there though.

[03enduro]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Well, AS does a *better* job at quality than the typical Thor brand. In some cases quality is not cheap.

Bob

I had posted something similar while renovating my '75 Overlander. There were areas where the guys assembling it clearly jammed a pipe into a misplaced hole, poor plumbing slope, overhead bins that could have been riveted to the rib and not just the skin... my disappointment went on and on until I asked myself "How many other 47 year old trailers are even worth renovating!?