Surge Protector vs Voltage Regulator

[joemikeb]

Another thread has convinced me of the need for protection of the expensive electrics and electronics in the Interstate. But there are two aspects of dirty power that can damage electrical and electronic equipment, power surges, and brownouts. All of the protection discussion so far has only addressed power surges but some of the most potentially expensive damage such as A/C burnouts are more likely to be caused by brownouts. The surge protectors that have been discussed provide zero protection from brownouts. There are voltage regulators using toroidal coil transformers to maintain a constant output voltage through a range of +-10% input voltage but the ones I have found so far cost twice what a surge protector costs and do not provide surge protection.

By the way all of my computers are protected with a battery backup, voltage regulated surge protectors. So yes I am a bit of belt and suspenders kind of guy where my toys are concerned.

1. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced 30 AMP voltage regulator with surge protection.
2. Am I being overcautious?
3. Which problem is more likely, a power surge or a brownout?

[dznf0g]

This one, discussed a lot, protects against surges, low or high voltage, rapid re-starts when power flickers or comes back on,

Surge Guard RV Power Protection | Technology Research Corporation

The third tab is a voltage regulator.
I am unaware of a surge and voltage regulation unit in one.

[PSchw]

Now I am not a electrician and hoped by installing the EMS-HW30C from Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C would do this all. At least that what I understood from the website.
I installed it permanently but easy to remove with blocks in the back by feeding it with either the shore power or the generator which if either one is acting up I am covered.
If I install my office I will also put a back up in it for any power failure as the EMS will shoot everything down when it detects a disturbance.
Hopefully we never will need it.
Peter

[JFScheck]

Considering all the LED's & modern day electronics (and who knows what dirty power is located at these Parks) I highly recommend this --> Amazon.com: 30 Amp Surge Guard Portable Model For RV Power Protection Automatic Power Shut Off: Everything Else TRC's RV purposed Surge Protector

[John&Vicki]

John, the one you're recommending costs $370. The one I'm looking at costs $232:

Progressive Industries 30 Amp Portable Electrical Management System - Surge Guards - Power Protection - Electrical

Can you tell me how they compare? I'm in the market for one and want to get the best bang for the buck - or maybe in this case the least bang for the buck.

Thanks,
John

[73shark]

After reviewing the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C/PT30C and the TRC unit in post #2, it appears that the former provides not only surge protection (1,790 joules) but also protects against over/under voltage while the latter only provides surge protection (1,050 joules). But since the TRC unit referenced doesn't seem to show a model number, I may be wrong. Also while the TRC is made overseas w/ 1 year warranty, the Progressive unit is USA made w/ lifetime warranty. And the TRC seems to be more expensive.

That being said, does anyone know if it's possible to put the hardwired unit in the circuit so it protects whether you are on shore power or generator?

[ROBERT CROSS]

.......snip..."Another thread has convinced me of the need for protection of the expensive electrics and electronics in the Interstate. But there are two aspects of dirty power that can damage electrical and electronic equipment, power surges, and brownouts. All of the protection discussion so far has only addressed power surges but some of the most potentially expensive damage such as A/C burnouts are more likely to be caused by brownouts. The surge protectors that have been discussed provide zero protection from brownouts."

I do believe a 'brownout' or drop in voltage will also cause a frequency variation.
Same would apply for a voltage spike…..If my lectrikly challenged brain synapse are firing.


EMS-PT30
AC Frequency Protection:
If AC power frequency deviates +/- 9 hertz from 60 cycles per second, the EMS will shut down power. An error code of E-7 will be displayed when the frequency is high; and an error code will be displayed when frequency is low

Bob

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Maybe you don't need anything. I had a brown out in my house with a portable air conditioner and a window air conditioner running. My Fluke meter said that I was only getting 88 volts at the time. My air conditioners stopped cycling and the compressors would not re-start. I turned them off. refrigerators and other appliances had no failures. When I have a power outage, my biggest concern is my desk top computer since it runs directly off 120 volts. My lap tops are powered through transformers [low voltage] so I'm not too concerned about them. Sometimes I think people are too concerned about things that might never happen. My Airstream air conditioner was supposed to burn out because it was running on a 20 Amp house outlet and my Yamaha 2400 isn't supposed to be able to run my Airstream air conditioner either. So far nothing in my house or trailer has been damaged.

[jbroedlow]

We've got a 30 amp from Progressive and just ordered a 50 amp for our new AS. A friend of ours who just bought a new 5th wheel camped without one and the first month he was out he blew out 3 flat screen TV's during an electrical store.

As the ad goes, "We don't leave home without one."

[wayneskid]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I do believe a 'brownout' or drop in voltage will also cause a frequency variation. Same would apply for a voltage spike…..If my lectrikly challenged brain synapse are firing.
Bob

A brownout may but would not necessarily be accompanied by a change in frequency. IMHO

[Bill M.]

I do not know what a toroidal coil transformer is. Are they light enough to carry? I have used voltage regulators that had stepping transformers to regulate voltage. Very heavy and not something you would want to mount in an Airstream. Computers and stuff like that tends to work on low voltage. An alarm for low voltage should allow on to turn off the AC.

[PSchw]

Originally Posted by 73shark

After reviewing the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C/PT30C and the TRC unit in post #2, it appears that the former provides not only surge protection (1,790 joules) but also protects against over/under voltage while the latter only provides surge protection (1,050 joules). But since the TRC unit referenced doesn't seem to show a model number, I may be wrong. Also while the TRC is made overseas w/ 1 year warranty, the Progressive unit is USA made w/ lifetime warranty. And the TRC seems to be more expensive.

That being said, does anyone know if it's possible to put the hardwired unit in the circuit so it protects whether you are on shore power or generator?

Yes I did it you have to go after the power transfer switch which leaves this exposed but protects form anything coming from the generator. I installed it with plugs so I can quick disconnect it if I have to as i installed it on the wall to the water heater.

[joemikeb]

Thanks for lots of good feedback. A couple of observations of my own…

• There is no direct relationship between voltage and frequency except possibly in the case of inexpensive generators.
• Toroidal coil transformers are not lightweights coming in at the 25 to 30 pound level — which is a disadvantage.
• What appears to be the same $370 surge protector JFSCheck mentioned is on sale at Camping World for $222. That is probably the way I will go for now.
• It does not appear that what I am looking for, surge protection with brownout prevention is currently available and I am going to have to settle for brownout protection — at least until I get ambitious enough to build my own unit.

[RoadJager]

This is the unit we also use.
EMS-PT30C
It has worked well for us, as we have never had any electrical damaged. I can recall one issue of reverse polarity that it protected the motor coach from damage. That justified the expense of the unit.
Road Jager

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

.......snip..."Another thread has convinced me of the need for protection of the expensive electrics and electronics in the Interstate. But there are two aspects of dirty power that can damage electrical and electronic equipment, power surges, and brownouts. All of the protection discussion so far has only addressed power surges but some of the most potentially expensive damage such as A/C burnouts are more likely to be caused by brownouts. The surge protectors that have been discussed provide zero protection from brownouts."

I do believe a 'brownout' or drop in voltage will also cause a frequency variation.
Same would apply for a voltage spike…..If my lectrikly challenged brain synapse are firing.


EMS-PT30
AC Frequency Protection:
If AC power frequency deviates +/- 9 hertz from 60 cycles per second, the EMS will shut down power. An error code of E-7 will be displayed when the frequency is high; and an error code will be displayed when frequency is low

Bob

Originally Posted by joemikeb

Thanks for lots of good feedback. A couple of observations of my own…

• There is no direct relationship between voltage and frequency except possibly in the case of inexpensive generators.
• Toroidal coil transformers are not lightweights coming in at the 25 to 30 pound level — which is a disadvantage.
• What appears to be the same $370 surge protector JFSCheck mentioned is on sale at Camping World for $222. That is probably the way I will go for now.
• It does not appear that what I am looking for, surge protection with brownout prevention is currently available and I am going to have to settle for brownout protection — at least until I get ambitious enough to build my own unit.

In reply to my email on the subject....

Bob


Re: EMS PT-30c

Yes that unit has full protection from low and high voltage.* High cut off above 132V, low below 104 volts

Thomas E. Fanelli, President
Progressive Industries
414B Airport Boulevard
Morrisville, NC 27560
(919) 462-8280
fax: 919-462-6132
tfanelli@progressiveindustries.net
*
*
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: EMS PT-30c
From: Robert Cross <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, November 09, 2013 9:31 am
To: info@progressiveindustries.net

I have been using the unit in our Airstream for several years now...great product!

Got a nice new flatscreen that stays plugged in when on SP.

Question, will the unit shut down AC supply during a 'brownout' event?

I notice that it does re-set during frequency variations, under what conditions might that occur?

Are the voltage limits, + & -, enough to protect the tv and other devices?

Thanks,
Bob Cross

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

In reply to my email on the subject....

Bob


Re: EMS PT-30c

Yes that unit has full protection from low and high voltage.* High cut off above 132V, low below 104 volts.

Hi, so does this actually mean that the cut off points are at 133 volts and 103 volts? [it says above and below]

[ROBERT CROSS]

131.9999 & 103.9999

It sez what they meant I guess.

Bob

[civi]

@ joemikeb, one thing I can guarantee is that this is not being over-cautious, this is being smart. Brown-outs are mostly linked to you’re A/C system because A/C requires a lot of power from the car. When you start a car, the A/C starts drawing power from the car, a small surge initially and then when you start ignition, the starter motor draws power too which could be damaging for both A/C and the starter. So it’s better to have brown-out protection for the A/C and it’s a general precaution to keep the A/C till the car is started. Second one is power-surges, these happen very less but they are unexpected and very damaging.

[joemikeb]

Originally Posted by civi

@ joemikeb, one thing I can guarantee is that this is not being over-cautious, this is being smart. Brown-outs are mostly linked to you’re A/C system because A/C requires a lot of power from the car. When you start a car, the A/C starts drawing power from the car, a small surge initially and then when you start ignition, the starter motor draws power too which could be damaging for both A/C and the starter. So it’s better to have brown-out protection for the A/C and it’s a general precaution to keep the A/C till the car is started. Second one is power-surges, these happen very less but they are unexpected and very damaging.

Actually the A/C unit I am talking about draws no power from the vehicle (in this case a Mercedes Benz Sprinter van). It only works when connected to external power or when the generator is running. So brownouts will only happen when on external power.