Replacement Awning - no more Fiamma !!

[Titus]

I was not clear above. What I meant is that pulling 10 or 12 did not remove power from just the awning motor. Pulling 25A fuse 10 removed power to the awning and the step. I don't know what fuse 12 does. I wanted to kill awning power but not step power, so I pulled a wire from the back of the awning switch.

[Sebtown]

I called Carefree directly and they provided an updated part number. I ordered the part from one of their retailers. The installation of the gear box was relatively easy. I did have to file the ball end of my hand crank to fit the crank slot on the new gear box. PM me as I may have the part number saved.

[Ruscal]

Regarding the crank out Fiamma I can't recall if it had a retention device. To deploy I simply inserted the crank with a hook on the end into a loop that protruded out from the gear box and cranked the awning open about a foot, and then dropped the legs that were contained in the clamshell box. Then adjusted the legs to the ground and walked them out as the awning was advanced every three feet or so. It was very simple to use. It took about 2 minutes from stowed to set up position. Very slick.
As far as plastic gears go, I would not worry about them on a hand crank model if the awning was not abused. I also would not think that the awning could be sucked out of the box in any wind conditions.
Russ

[Tronadora]

I answered my own question on the differences between Carefree and Fiamma mounting rails.

Here's the photos of the Carefree Awning mount on a (2016?) silver AI vs the Fiamma mounting rail on my 2015 white AI. There are no side mount plates for support arms on the silver AI which tells me this CF awning has either self supporting arms like the Fiamma, or ones that fold down to the ground like some can.

[Tronadora]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronadora
Yes, the Fiamma 65 Eagle can also be deployed part way and we did so often. Now I want to deploy it off a high bridge.


The easiest replacement is <sigh> another Fiamma. Although I am tempted to go with the F65 non-Eagle, so no auto-retract. Maybe even go with the model without a motor. It pains me to consider this but the brackets are already there and can be re-used.

Would love to see how a Carefree looks on an Interstate or other Sprinter body when it is retracted. Close-up pictures anyone?

While waiting for my Fiamma replacement awning to get installed, I noticed this 2016 (I think) Interstate in the service back lot with a Carefree awning. The rail is not quite the same but it's very similar. If only Carefree had people that knew the ins and outs of what rigs their products would fit on, and how. As it is, their tepid and much delayed response cost them a sale.

In the the end I bit my lip, puckered my cheeks, and ordered another Fiamma for the sake of the next owner of this vehicle someday and because I foresaw an issue with the insurance co. coughing up for a different product that might require more expense to configure and install where a Fiamma once sat. Then will all unused holes be safely sealed? Then there is the story from Shamus of their CF awning having the same accidental deployment issue as well so would I really have better off?

So we got the new awning delivered to the AS dealer in Scarborough (Portland) Maine. Ordered it with the LED lights that they spec and install for you at the factory. No chance of getting warm white I'm told. It's crappy bright white or nothing. It's good they install them on the part of the awning that extends out. OK, great. So the light shines down on your party instead of into the neighbor's area. Nice.

Not so fast. Here is the result. They mount the LEDs up inside the casing so they cast a light onto the underside of the awning and onto the side of your vehicle and NONE of the light helps you by shining downward on your camp zone. Notice the shadow line on the ground next to the AI. The only way you can tell your partner is sitting in their camp chair is from the 10 lumens that bounce off the AI. Heaven help you if you have a black Interstate. You'll have to apply glow in the dark tape to your camp chairs to avoid trip hazards. What a disaster. Part Two of this rant coming up.

[PirateChris]

This is outrageous. 2016 Interstate..6,000 miles....awning extended a total of 9 times. On the 9th extension it hung up and would not retract. Used the manual retraction..took it to North Trail RV in Fort Myers..... $900 for a replacement motor. Airstream said the Fiamma product is only warranted for 12 months despite the Airstream 36 month warranty..Airstream declined the warranty claim.

I feel 'violated'...anybody else experience such enjoyment?

PirateChris

[InterBlog]

About $100 more than that motor would get you a whole new manual awning, but you'd need to install those clippy / slidey things on the side of your van for anchoring the legs. And I'm not sure how a roof-mounted configuration would work (T1N awnings are side-mounted).

Knock wood, our Carefree Freedom is now twelve years old and we've never had an issue with it. There is a gear that eventually wears out on them, but one of the off-forum T1N Interstate owners got into a sharing mood recently, and emailed me his DIY replacement instructions - it's a pretty straightforward fix. (Speaking of which, if any of the T1N owners here would like a Powerpoint with those instructions, PM me with your email.)

I'm starting to use our awning more and more, now that I'm developing additional under-awning accessories such as this new one:

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by PirateChris

This is outrageous. 2016 Interstate..6,000 miles....awning extended a total of 9 times. On the 9th extension it hung up and would not retract. Used the manual retraction..took it to North Trail RV in Fort Myers..... $900 for a replacement motor. Airstream said the Fiamma product is only warranted for 12 months despite the Airstream 36 month warranty..Airstream declined the warranty claim.

I feel 'violated'...anybody else experience such enjoyment?

PirateChris

PIRATECHRIS - Sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, they are right. It is clearly spelled out in the AS Terms of Warranty. And if you dig up the Fiamma or Carefree of CO Warranties, they have an OEM Warranty that at the discretion of AS, they might extend their 1 year warranty. But that is at AS discretion, which clearly they do not want to do. Yes, it sucks, they advertise 3 yrs but have all these exclusions.

[SilverWind]

I've always Zip Tied my awnings closed. Since my 2005 Interstate through two more AS trailers.

[swilly43]

I have the legless Fiamma awning on my 2016 Interstate. I have anxiety over deploying this thing even in a no wind situation. I have looked at making support legs for it but gave up doing something on my own. I like the look if the support legs shown by interblog. Has anyone retrofitted support legs on the legless Fiamma and care to share a solution?

[InterBlog]

TMK, nobody has asked that question before. It's a good question, but there would have to be a circumvention of the auto-retract mechanism for the motorized awnings to be retrofit like that.

I really like the legs. I can put the awning out just a couple of feet (not fully extended), secure the legs, and not worry about moderate wind gusts.

The legs manually clip-fasten at the user's chosen heights. I can jack one side of the awning up a bit higher than the other to slope it, thus allowing for efficient rain run-off. The manufacturer does not warrant the awning to be used like that, but I have not had a problem doing so on a partial extension. As long as there's no water weight accumulation on top of the awning, it doesn't seem to cause a problem.

[PirateChris]

I am wondering if pulling the electrical fuse on the awning circuit provides any degree of enhanced protection from surprise awning deployment? Are these surprise deployments electrically-operated, or just shear 'force' on the deployment arm that overpowers the natural drag of the electric motor?

I have the same system on my 2016 Interstate.

PirateChris

[RoadJager]

Originally Posted by PirateChris

I am wondering if pulling the electrical fuse on the awning circuit provides any degree of enhanced protection from surprise awning deployment? Are these surprise deployments electrically-operated, or just shear 'force' on the deployment arm that overpowers the natural drag of the electric motor?

I have the same system on my 2016 Interstate.

PirateChris

The mechanical failure in the gearbox separates any connection to the motor thus eliminating any mechanical drag. To eliminate unintended deployment of the awning the best way is to secure the awning with large wire-ties, large velcro straps or other devices that will not let it come loose from its stowed position.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by RoadJager

The mechanical failure in the gearbox separates any connection to the motor thus eliminating any mechanical drag. To eliminate unintended deployment of the awning the best way is to secure the awning with large wire-ties, large velcro straps or other devices that will not let it come loose from its stowed position.

ROADJAGER, PIRATECHRIS - I just want to say that the thought of me putting some type of "straps" to secure my awning is aesthetically very unappealing BUT from all my readings (regardless of brand or model - FIAMMA, CAREFREE, etc) this is a necessity. So I am doing it. In most things, safety trumps aesthetics. I was conversing with CAREFREE yesterday regarding adjustments on my retract mechanism and this issue came up. Here is their response to my question of using safety straps:

<start cut-paste>
"Absolutely. I have seen lots of consumers use Velcro straps as added security."
<end cut-paste>

I am trying to come up with a better looking solution and one that would stand up to long-term UV exposure, also one that takes advantage of the alu front rail and alu case, maybe some type of lockpin mechanism, but for now velcro has to do.

[orlik]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

ROADJAGER, PIRATECHRIS - I was conversing with CAREFREE yesterday regarding adjustments on my retract mechanism and this issue came up.

Alex, did you get into any technical discussions with CAREFREE on how there latching system works and why they fail? Are the latches metal or plastic?

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by orlik

Alex, did you get into any technical discussions with CAREFREE on how there latching system works and why they fail? Are the latches metal or plastic?

ORLIK - Unfortunately, no I did not. It was not part of my original inquiry and I did not want the conversation to veer towards that area and negatively impact or limit their cooperation with my immediate need. But I do know from the conversation (and diagrams & service recommendations) that the 3 lateral arms are spring tensioned. So, common sense says if the motor gear fails in whatever way (as ROADJAGER states), that de-couples the gear from the tension.

My awning is the FREEDOM RM. The latches are all part of the motor assembly R001647 or manual crank assembly R001593. But there are no orderable parts beyond that from their IPL (Illustrated Parts List). Those parts are pretty robustly built but I have not dug up any pics of it completely dissected to reveal if the internal gearing they use is of same quality as the exterior suggests. If it were a fast job to take apart, I would. But the task is time-consuming (not hard). So I would only do it if my unit needs servicing.

[Alex AVI]

Posting this separately so as not to confuse these pics with my previous pics on the FREEDOM RM. Couple of examples of CAREFREE's other motor/gearing system employed in other lines. If past is prologue, then hopefully they still use metal gearing instead of plastic/nylon. Doesn't mean they won't strip, but at least more robust.

[3bcamper]

I have heard many bad stories about the motorized and automatic awnings. I have a manual awning and thus far have not had any problems with it. I am happy to have a manual awning as I don’t find it that difficult to deploy or retract, and when something is simple, it is more reliable. I think some people have changed out their motorized awnings to the manual type.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by 3bcamper

I have heard many bad stories about the motorized and automatic awnings. I have a manual awning and thus far have not had any problems with it. I am happy to have a manual awning as I don’t find it that difficult to deploy or retract, and when something is simple, it is more reliable. I think some people have changed out their motorized awnings to the manual type.

3BCAMPER - I can only speak to the CAREFREE FREEDOM RM (Roof Mount) awning on my AI. The only difference between the motorized and manual awning is this. The motorized has the tubular motor assembly (which includes the driving gears on left/rear side and long tube that inserts into the awning roller that secures on the right/front side). The manual only has the the crank assembly (on the left/rear side) that 'mates' or 'engages' with the main roller. Pics posted on my previous 2 posts. So the spring tension presented by the 'tension arms' (exact part descriptor used by CAREFREE) is IDENTICAL to motorized vs. manual units. Assuming the gearing each manufacturer uses on their motorized vs. manual is of same material/quality, then a failure on one could happen with the other. There is no logical reason why a manufacturer would make their manual gearing be made of stronger gears than the motorized version. If anything, it is the other way around because most motorized extend/retract mechanisms used for many different purposes run the motor longer & utilize the final tension to sense end-of-limit travel and stop motion and/or more elaborate ones have a clutch (if in auto retract mode).

A similar example is the typical roll-up garage door. Whether it is operated by an electric door opener or manually has negligible bearing on whether it's main tension springs, chain, worm gear, or rollers would fail causing it to slam down violently (the equivalent of the awning deploying). My point is, while I agree that it may be easy for you to deploy/retract your simple manual awning, it is NOT immune from said deployment. Thus, it can not be deemed "more reliable" with respect to this type of unwanted deployment. This thread should not be a debate on whether a motorized awning is less reliable than a manual awning (electrical issues set aside). We are talking about non-electrical deployment due to a failed gearing in the crank (CAREFREE term), winch (FIAMMA term), or latch (others). These have to do with the robustness of the parts used (plastic vs. metal) in either config to hold the enormous constant outward tension from the 3 arms (my unit).

Whatever term you awning manufacturer uses, whatever gearing material they use, and whatever type you have (motor vs. manual), any awning can do this. If I had a manual awning, I would still safety strap it.

[orlik]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

ORLIK - Unfortunately, no I did not. It was not part of my original inquiry and I did not want the conversation to veer towards that area and negatively impact or limit their cooperation with my immediate need. But I do know from the conversation (and diagrams & service recommendations) that the 3 lateral arms are spring tensioned. So, common sense says if the motor gear fails in whatever way (as ROADJAGER states), that de-couples the gear from the tension.

My awning is the FREEDOM RM. The latches are all part of the motor assembly R001647 or manual crank assembly R001593. But there are no orderable parts beyond that from their IPL (Illustrated Parts List). Those parts are pretty robustly built but I have not dug up any pics of it completely dissected to reveal if the internal gearing they use is of same quality as the exterior suggests. If it were a fast job to take apart, I would. But the task is time-consuming (not hard). So I would only do it if my unit needs servicing.

Alex - Thanks for that info. Shamus in post#6 stated the same thing happened to him and I recall Wachuko said his deployed while parked for unknown reasons. While I can understand the need to strap the unit, it would be nice if we knew exactly what was happening - electrical blip or mechanical failure and exactly what was causing it to happen. I would be curious to know if any of these accidental deployments occurred with the awning switch in the on or off position. I know I have forgotten to turn mine off several times but I have not had an incident as of today. I have the CAREFREE Freedom awning and really not happy about strapping it down as many others are I'm sure.

I called CAREFREE and spoke with someone named Michelle. Very nice and explained basic operation and so forth. They are aware of some deployments and said they are working with the OEM's. They said they have not been able to duplicate any of the problems that have been reported and could not determine the cause since they did not have access to the failed units for reasons I'm not clear. They did say they suspect the wiring in the wind sensor on some units may have been wired backwards. If the awning is retracted and something disturbs the wind sensor enough it could deploy since it thinks it need to retract. You can test this by extracting your awning and give it a good shake several times and if it retracts then the unit is wired properly. With the newer units you may have to shake it pretty hard. As far as basic operation, the cylindrical motor assembly attaches to a one-way drive at the front end of unit which locks the awning in place when retracted. When power is applied to the motor it unlocks the one-way drive and the spring tension and the awning extracts. When retracted, the motor pulls the awning in and is locked in place by the one-way drive. Michelle indicted it is very unlikely that a mechanical failure would allow the awning to extract, i.e., gears stripping out or something else. They have not seen anything like that. I asked about the on/off switch and she said if its off then the motor has no power and will not extract. She did caution that nothing is 100% perfect and did not rule out that under some kind of odd circumstance it could happen. I asked about having to strap the awning and she said CAREFREE is not advising users to do that as far as she is aware. I did sense that CAREFREE was serious about getting to the bottom of the issue. Bottom line - I felt more comfortable about the awning not accidentally deploying after talking with CAREFREE. I will run the wind sensor test and if that checks out then I will continue to use the awning without a strap for now. If CAREFREE determines in their investigation there is is a design flaw I feel confident they will let the right folks know and fix it. It could be a huge liability if they didn't.