Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-21-2016, 02:42 AM   #201
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 685
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr View Post
Very good points, totally agree. In fact, I'd argue it's more important to properly route, tie down, protect, and connect the wires than whether the wire is stranded or solid.

@lewster - Crimp? Sure....but only if you also solder. Crimping alone, unless it is gas-tight (which most aren't), will be susceptible to oxidation and problems down the line. By totally coating the connection in solder, it's sealed and as amirm states, will likely outlast the owner. I also add heatshrink to finish the job.....
Solder turns the stranded cable into a solid wire so the ABYC doesn't permit it as a primary means of terminating wires. Lewster referred to wire termination as a science. I agree. A good crimp has proven difficult for me to make in many cases. In some cases because I didn't have the proper tools, but mostly because big box stores don't cary barrel splices for anything larger than 10 ga wires, requiring me to wait until I can get to a marine store. Luckily we live 8 miles from the 3rd largest concentration of yachts in North America.

A quality crimp should fuse the strands to the lug. It's more of a cold weld than a pure mechanical connection. As for corrosion, adhesive lined heat shrink is probably sufficient for most indoor RV wiring but marine wire is tinned for added corrosion resistance in harsh salt conditions.
__________________

LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 05:47 AM   #202
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
Solder turns the stranded cable into a solid wire so the ABYC doesn't permit it as a primary means of terminating wires. Lewster referred to wire termination as a science. I agree. A good crimp has proven difficult for me to make in many cases. In some cases because I didn't have the proper tools, but mostly because big box stores don't cary barrel splices for anything larger than 10 ga wires, requiring me to wait until I can get to a marine store. Luckily we live 8 miles from the 3rd largest concentration of yachts in North America.

A quality crimp should fuse the strands to the lug. It's more of a cold weld than a pure mechanical connection. As for corrosion, adhesive lined heat shrink is probably sufficient for most indoor RV wiring but marine wire is tinned for added corrosion resistance in harsh salt conditions.
I couldn't have said it better!!! No soldering, as the introduction of a third metal to a proper crimp will also greatly increase the potential for corrosion. The best way to get a proper crimp is to use the crimp tool made by the manufacturer of the crimps. Look to companies like ANCOR for a fully integrated system with quality heat shrink crimps, proper crimp tools and adhesive-filled heat shrink tubing.

More expensive?......yes!!!.......but what is the failure potential worth, especially when that failure may be the cause of a fire due to a high resistance, heat producing, shorting connection.
__________________

lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 06:20 AM   #203
4 Rivet Member
 
youngpeck's Avatar
 
1976 25' Caravanner
Salt Lake City , Utah
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 394
A real education, as always, following these discussions, and this thread in particular. I appreciate all contributions, and the intelligent, civil discourse, and everyone's time and thoughts. Now, I'm back to work . . .
youngpeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 11:09 AM   #204
Rivet Master
 
FlyFishinRVr's Avatar
 
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern , California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
Solder turns the stranded cable into a solid wire so the ABYC doesn't permit it as a primary means of terminating wires.
Primary means? Absolutely not! I didn't suggest it should be a primary connection means, nor would I ever. It is used to fill voids as a way to prevent galvanic corrosion from the cold joining of two dissimilar metals (i.e. crimping non-copper metals together with copper metals, like wires). ABYC absolutely DOES allow the use of solder by the way, just not as the primary connection method as you've stated.

You all do as you like, but I've been working on cars and bikes for over 40 years and when I make electrical connections (either as new or to fix sloppy work from manufacturers....if you ever owned an Italian motorcycle, you'll know what I mean, LOL), I always crimp, then solder, then protect (typically with heatshrink). Over that period of time, I have never had a problem with any of my work, and I have had my bikes in particular in some fairly harsh environments (mud bogs, river crossings, freezing temps, scorching hot temps, vibration unlike a boat or RV will EVER face, etc).

I will say this though, Lew is right on the money with regards to using high quality crimpers because getting a good crimp that is tight but not damaging to any part of the connection is crucial (and difficult even with the right tools until you've done a few hundred). And I said crimpers (plural) because you need to use the crimper designed for the connector in order to get it right, and most jobs require the use of several different connector types. I'm sure if I looked at Lew's tool collection, I'd find a small fortune in crimpers....right Lew?
FlyFishinRVr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 07:34 PM   #205
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Ahhh YES!!! so many crimp tools..........so little time!!!!!

Here are couple of my absolute favorites:

.............and I won't divulge their prices either!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4791.JPG
Views:	123
Size:	112.6 KB
ID:	276971  
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 08:40 PM   #206
Rivet Master
 
Troutboy's Avatar

 
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,651
Images: 1
Damn! Power crimper, now that's awesome! I thought I was cool for buying the Ancor big boys..... you da man Lewster. (Major tool envy)!!!!!


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
Troutboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 08:53 PM   #207
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troutboy View Post
Damn! Power crimper, now that's awesome! I thought I was cool for buying the Ancor big boys..... you da man Lewster. (Major tool envy)!!!!!


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich
Yah, I know they are a bit over the top...one for insulated and the other for non-insulated. The best feature is the automatic pressure sensor that will not over crimp the wire termination.......plus the benefit of not getting carpal tunnel from doing hundreds of crimps a week!

The crimps pass the pull test every time!!
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2016, 08:55 PM   #208
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Ahhh YES!!! so many crimp tools..........so little time!!!!!

Here are couple of my absolute favorites:

.............and I won't divulge their prices either!!!
I will: it is a bit over $500!

I will be buying one soon as the ancor one I have destroys my hands in the process of crimping anything substantial.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2016, 05:34 AM   #209
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
I will: it is a bit over $500!

I will be buying one soon as the ancor one I have destroys my hands in the process of crimping anything substantial.
Your hands and wrists will thank you!!!
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2016, 06:24 AM   #210
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar

 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3 View Post
... Luckily we live 8 miles from the 3rd largest concentration of yachts in North America....
I can't resist expounding: according to local authorities, there are 90,000 pleasure boats registered on Galveston Bay. Not every boat is a yacht, but there's a boat-load of yachts in that mix.

We have the boat stores to go with them. Every time I walk into one of those stores searching for parts that could be adapted to the RV, I feel like I'm in an episode of "Back to the Future". They are at least 30 years ahead of the RV industry in the quality and diversity of what they are installing. But that's been said many times before.
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2016, 03:43 PM   #211
Rivet Master
 
Boxster1971's Avatar

 
2013 Interstate Coach
Fulton , Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
I can't resist expounding: according to local authorities, there are 90,000 pleasure boats registered on Galveston Bay. Not every boat is a yacht, but there's a boat-load of yachts in that mix.



We have the boat stores to go with them. Every time I walk into one of those stores searching for parts that could be adapted to the RV, I feel like I'm in an episode of "Back to the Future". They are at least 30 years ahead of the RV industry in the quality and diversity of what they are installing. But that's been said many times before.

It was also the cruiser sail boat community that first adapted the lithium batteries that have now found there way into the RV applications.


- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2013 Airstream Interstate Lounge EXT
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2016, 08:35 PM   #212
2 Rivet Member
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Ouray , Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 26
crimpers

Are you all going to tell me that a hammer-crimper for 3/0 or 4/0 wire, such as sold by AMsolar, is bad?
mineralfarme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2016, 11:48 PM   #213
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 685
I think all anyone is saying is that good crimps can be a challenge with the best of tools and harder with lesser tools. You should always give a connection a good tug to make sure it's tight. But if you question the quality of a crimp, check the standards for that gauge wire. 2/0 crimps should hold a 150# pull. I'm guessing 4/0 is much higher.
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 11:21 AM   #214
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineralfarme View Post
Are you all going to tell me that a hammer-crimper for 3/0 or 4/0 wire, such as sold by AMsolar, is bad?
I know Lew doesn't like them but I bought one of the Chinese hydraulic crimpers and was super impressed with how easy it was to use. Would never use anything else. They only cost $60 or so. I highly recommend them instead of anything needing hammers and such. The amount of force they put on the crimp is huge and it uses a die so what forms is the same every time.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 11:31 AM   #215
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Amirm,

I don't like them from a professional standpoint. For occasional use.... WAY better than a hammer crimped!!! Especially if you can find one with fairly consistent dies.

And speaking of hammer crimpers, use them in a vise rather than beating on them with a hammer......... much better results!!!!


Lew Farber
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 12:55 PM   #216
Rivet Master
 
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bellevue , Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 688
What??? No fight on this Christmas holiday Lew???

Happy holidays everyone.
amirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 03:28 PM   #217
Rivet Master
 
Troutboy's Avatar

 
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,651
Images: 1
My Interstate Lithium Battery Adventures

These big crimpers are expensive, I bought those Mac daddy Ancor hex crimper. #8-4/0. Been practicing with some old scraps and I must say they are awesome.

We should start a tool exchange blog. After the solar project, not sure how long before I need them again.

But i sure like to have cool tools!
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
Troutboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 03:29 PM   #218
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
What??? No fight on this Christmas holiday Lew???

Happy holidays everyone.
Naaah!!! Better things to do.
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 09:17 PM   #219
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 685
I have two of the hydraulic crimpers. The one from Harbor Freight works well enough but the dies are probably 4 sizes too small compared to the label. If you watch some of the you tube videos they smash the coupling and it literally oozes out the sides of the die. But gives a decent crimp if you get the size right.

I purchased a larger hydraulic crimper on Amazon and it has the dies labeled in square millimeters. You can look up the American wire gauge equivalents but that doesn't take into account the thickness of the lug being crimped so it's still a bit of a guessing game until you get the feel for it. The dies on that crimper leave the size of the crimp embossed on the surface of the lug. It doesn't really make the crimps better but it's nice to think they could at least be used in a professional environment where quality assurance checks are required.
LB_3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 06:57 PM   #220
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar

 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,076
Dry fit of the prototype control center for the lithium system. The final panel will be made of aluminum - LB_3 ordered this black plastic trial version to ensure fit in the cabinet (which has a slightly irregular shape) and placement of the components.

Previously in the RS model of T1N Interstate, the front of this space consisted of a vertical wooden panel that held a DVD player only, and there were miscellaneous wire guts in back of that, for the phone jack, TV cable, a 12 V port, etc. that hung from the underside of this cabinet near where his hand is located.

__________________

InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical, Solar, Lithium Batteries on 28' International wbrown Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 25 09-13-2014 06:44 PM
Lithium ion battery bearrand Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 9 04-04-2014 06:02 PM
Lithium Battery - 2012 doublebubble Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 23 08-05-2012 09:43 AM
Lithium ion battery sk8r29 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 03-30-2011 01:33 AM
Spray Lithium Grease (Wal-Mart) Old_Town Hitches, Couplers & Balls 3 11-16-2007 12:48 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.