More on the Subject of Bio Diesel

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Fellow Houstonian vanners who go by the handle #Drivingkimbiewild killed their < 1 year old Sprinter, reportedly by grabbing the green fuel nozzle at a BP filling station. Had to get a flatbed tow out of the middle of nowhere.

Refresher training: Probably a good time to remind everyone that green nozzles do not necessarily mean diesel at BP stations.

Originally Posted by Titus

And diesel nozzles sometime have yellow handles, not to be confused with E-85 which sometimes have yellow handles too.

INTERBLOG, TITUS - who uses label or nozzle color to choose if they are pumping gas or diesel? That is just a recipe for disaster. My friend did and he destroyed a brand new VW rental car diesel during our cycling camp in Italy many years ago. It cost his wallet dearly, but it could have been me. Then there is diminished night time perception of colors. Then there is the issue (for men) that there is much higher percentage of men who are color blind or compromised color perception than women. And if you have traveled in Asia or EU, gas/diesel pumps don't have a consistent color scheme, not to mention the multitude of colors used.

I am not color blind and have 20/20 vision. But I pretend otherwise just to force myself to read the label before pumping. Not just read the label that says diesel, I also read the other labels next to it. I do not know why, maybe it makes me feel secured that there is no other label that says diesel, which is another confirmation that hopefully I lifted the right pump.

[InterBlog]

I'm assuming that none of us are eligible for any diesel purchases through a card reading system such as what commercial truckers use?

Every once in a while, I find a mixed-use filling station that has their trucker pump accepting credit cards as well as being on Petro-Card or whatever the heck the commercial scheme is that they are using.

Most stations are segregated. But sometimes consumer use of the commercial rack is possible because apparently they didn't want to put in a separate diesel underground storage tank (UST) at the consumer rack (saves them $100K+ in construction costs). So they send all the consumers over to the commercial rack.

Anyway, I use so many truck stops that I'd consider getting a diesel card for the commercial rack if I could be eligible for one. It sure makes the fill-ups faster. And it eliminates the gasoline mix-up hazard. I did a quick Google search but nothing jumped out at me. I'll ask my girlfriend the trucker about this.

[Pahaska]

When I trailed the 28 Classic with a Silverado Duramax and 76 gallons of diesel capacity, I used the truck pumps almost always. It meant walking into the office twice to pay.

With the AI, I use the car pumps, even when towing the smart. I can use my cards and I don't have to wrestle a big, dirty hose and seldom have to walk in diesel spills.

[steverino]

I’ve noticed that at least one state (Arizona) taxes diesel pumped into commercial vehicles (trucks over 26000 GVWR) at a higher rate than non commercial vehicles. The truck lanes will pump at the higher rate. You can ask for, and receive, a refund of the excess $0.08/gallon tax at the fuel desk.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

INTERBLOG, TITUS - who uses label or nozzle color to choose if they are pumping gas or diesel? That is just a recipe for disaster. My friend did and he destroyed a brand new VW rental car diesel during our cycling camp in Italy many years ago. It cost his wallet dearly, but it could have been me. Then there is diminished night time perception of colors. Then there is the issue (for men) that there is much higher percentage of men who are color blind or compromised color perception than women. And if you have traveled in Asia or EU, gas/diesel pumps don't have a consistent color scheme, not to mention the multitude of colors used.

I am not color blind and have 20/20 vision. But I pretend otherwise just to force myself to read the label before pumping. Not just read the label that says diesel, I also read the other labels next to it. I do not know why, maybe it makes me feel secured that there is no other label that says diesel, which is another confirmation that hopefully I lifted the right pump.

I read everything posted next to the pump nozzle. Especially at unfamiliar new to me stations. I want to know if its bio diesel, what grade, off road etc.
I only purchase Bio Diesel if I will be burning through it before getting home. Don't like it sitting in the tank.
I stick to filling up where the semis do and simply take the time to go inside to arrange payment. It still takes me less time than waiting for pumps being tied up front while people are having birthday parties inside.

[Titus]

Alex
I was not advocating the use of pump handle color, but rather elaborating on why not to use pump handle color. In addition to reading the label I also smell the fuel. The one time that the diesel stink is useful.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

Alex
I was not advocating the use of pump handle color, but rather elaborating on why not to use pump handle color. In addition to reading the label I also smell the fuel. The one time that the diesel stink is useful.

TITUS - I never said you were. I thought I was trying to support yours and INTERBLOG's warnings. It was a statement of support. But given the wrong impression it has brought out, next time I will be extremely careful in trying to support others.

[Titus]

Alex
No Prob. Sorry, I misunderstood your response. While I don't use the color as the fill criteria I still drive to the green handle when entering the station - since I can't see the label from a distance. Then I have a few choice words when I find that green does not equal diesel and have to change pumps.

[TheCabin]

Are gas stations suppose to have paperwork documenting the diesel formulation that they are selling?


There have been 3 occasions when I pulled into stations and became concerned of the diesel content based on the color of the handle or the old/missing pump labels. In each case I went inside the station office and asked if it was pure diesel. In one case the kid went in the back room and looked at a page on a clipboard and said that it did not list the contents. The other 2 said that they did not know.


I am not faulting the cash register employees for not knowing. I am just surprised that there does not appear to be a requirement to have that info on display or in easy access for the employees.

[InterBlog]

I doubt that anybody CONSCIOUSLY uses handle color as an indicator of what the fuel is.

The issue is one of habituation - people internalize the pattern recognition - they get used to green being diesel, and then at some point when they are suffering from road fatigue, their minds just slip into the simplifying assumption that green is, in fact, diesel.

From the internet: "A schema is a mental structure we use to organize and simplify our knowledge of the world around us. We have schemas about ourselves, other people, mechanical devices, food, and in fact almost everything. Schemas can be related to one another, sometimes in a hierarchy (so a salesman is a man is a human)."

That's what the vanners I referenced above did - they defaulted to habituation without even realizing it.

They reported that they set their engine on fire. Brand new custom Sprinter camper van.

[Tobbun]

Green should equal diesel. Diesel pricing is usually listed on the price boards in green. The handle is usually green. It should just be a standard. Diesel should be green.

I am overly cautious and have left more than one gas station a bit frustrated with the time wasted pulling in then leaving.

[Lotus54]

I can easily see confusion in Italy.

gasolio - Diesel
Benzina - Gasoline

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Tobbun

Green should equal diesel. Diesel pricing is usually listed on the price boards in green. The handle is usually green. It should just be a standard. Diesel should be green.

And yet diesel jerry cans are usually yellow.

[gypsydad]

And then there is the station with a "red" handled pump and a "yellow" handled pump; both say diesel....but the "red" is about $.45/gal less expensive...so I ask the guy next to me if it works in my diesel, and he says "yes, it's just dyed red- no damage to your engine"...WOW, I thought...this is great! Then I went inside and paid...I asked the girl behind the counter after getting my credit card back, why the price difference...she said the red is for agricultural vehicles and is not taxed; and if I get stopped by the police, they can fine me...I'm thinking, oh, oh! But, then, how would the police know?? Anyway, learned something new again.

[Bill M.]

"But, then, how would the police know??"

Well, errr...because it is dyed red.

I have never been stopped and tested in 12 years of driving a diesel, but it does happen. And we are not talking about a small fine either.

[HiHoAgRV]

I've found that an easy way to find the diesel pump is to look for the big greasy stain on the ground!

[switz]

Or sniff the pump handle......

[UncleBad]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

INTERBLOG, TITUS - who uses label or nozzle color to choose if they are pumping gas or diesel?

In Mexico at Pemex stations, the premium gas has green handles and the diesel has black handles. Many Americans make the mistake and put gas into their diesels. Have seen it happen.
Older diesels will do ok if this mistake is made and caught quickly (they can burn the mixture if it’s a small ratio mistake), but not good it it’s a full tank.

[3bcamper]

This is an interesting and important discussion. In looking at the Mercedes-Benz document, some effects of biodiesel are simply annoying, such as fuel filter clogging and reduced mileage and horsepower, however some are damaging, such as corrosion to fuel system components identified in the document. Pertaining to the sludging, has anyone had their oil pan pulled during an oil change to see if there were sludge deposits? I may do that at my next oil change.

[EarlM]

I you get caught using "red dyed fuel" the fine is $10,000.00

Also I would ask your Mercedes dealer if it will void the engine warranty?

You must rely on your own knowledge as most fuel attendants are not the sharpest pencil in the box