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07-24-2017, 05:58 PM
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#21
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3 Rivet Member
2016 30' Classic
Naperville
, Illinois
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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Does anyone have experience running Duramax's long term in Biodiesel blends?
__________________
Ed
2016 Classic (with ProPride)
2016 Silverado 3500HD Diesel drw
1995 & 2004 Gary Fisher Hoo-Koo-e-Koo emergency vehicles
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07-24-2017, 06:02 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
The big 3 truck stops all have 5% to 20% bio-diesel . The big rigs engines are having lots of issues with bio-diesel. Many of the smaller diesel engine service shops along the interstates are making extremely good money getting a contaminated by bio-diesel engine operating again.
I avoid bio-diesel for both my 2012 Cummins and the two Mercedes with the 3.0L V6 turbo-diesels (2007 ML320 CDI and 2009 E320 Bluetec and both do NOT have DEF).
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Whenever a service station sells Diesel with any amount of Biodiesel mix it must be displayed on the pump. Just like the Ethanol content.
Places like Casey's display it clearly and they being in rural Illinois get the supply locally . Diesel fuel is not required to contain Biodiesel. I don't use it because it causes all sorts of complication due to fact that it can gel. I happened to fuel up at a Caseys with Bio Diesel out of desperation but burned it up quickly and kept topping it of with good stuff.
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08-02-2017, 07:51 PM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Sedona
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,084
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More on the Subject of Bio Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
That shouldn't happen. Not saying it didn't, just that it shouldn't. The energy density (BTUs per gallon) of B20 biodiesel is 99% of the energy density of straight B0 ultra-low-sulfur diesel (ULSD). You shouldn't see much difference in fuel economy, if any, for any bio percentage of B20 or less.
In fact, the energy density of B100 is still 93% of the energy density of B0 ULSD.
The equation is different for gasoline vs. ethanol. E10 has 97% of the energy density of E0 straight gasoline. E85 only has 73% of the energy density of straight gasoline. So increased percentages of ethanol should cause a huge hit in fuel economy.
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I'm currently on a cross-country trip: started from AZ heading East with a reasonable fuel consumption of around 19.5 mpg. In Oklahoma I had no option but to fill up with B5 and was instantly paranoid about getting a check engine light! Didn't get one, but noticed my fuel consumption dropped dramatically to less than 17 mpg! After filling up a couple of times my mpg gradually recovered and is now around 18.4.
I have now ordered a 5 gal fuel can to give me more flexibility to avoid biodiesel!
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08-02-2017, 10:44 PM
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#24
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Rivet Master
Muskogee
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKDUDE
I'm currently on a cross-country trip: started from AZ heading East with a reasonable fuel consumption of around 19.5 mpg. In Oklahoma I had no option but to fill up with B5 and was instantly paranoid about getting a check engine light! Didn't get one, but noticed my fuel consumption dropped dramatically to less than 17 mpg! After filling up a couple of times my mpg gradually recovered and is now around 18.4.
I have now ordered a 5 gal fuel can to give me more flexibility to avoid biodiesel!
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It can be a challenge to find non-bio-grease diesel in some states. In Oklahoma, look for a Murphy's near a Walmart. Most, but not all, carry straight diesel. Next, try one of the major brands. Stay away, at all costs, Pilot, Love's or Quick-Trips-all of which now are carrying B5 or higher (I note the sticker on Quick-Trip warned it was B5 or up to B20, and your guess is as good as mine which it is).
I start looking for straight diesel when I'm about half empty. On a recent 6000 mile trip to Canada and back, I only used bio-diesel one time, accidentally, in Canada, when I didn't notice the tiny sticker placed on the pump. But I was only half empty, so at least it got diluted.
The farther away you get from the farm belt, the less likely you will have to look hard to find straight diesel.
I'm not sure carrying a 5 gallon can full of volatile fuel around is a good idea. Why not just act like you have a 12 gallon tank instead? I can go about three hours before I need a break anyway, and it gives me about a 300+ mile range, and plenty of time to find a place that sells something besides pig/vegetable fat disguised as fuel.
And avoid Minnesota altogether.
__________________
2011 Interstate WD/Lounge (since sold).
2020 Leisure Van WonderRTB
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08-03-2017, 05:28 AM
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#25
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmillerok1
I'm not sure carrying a 5 gallon can full of volatile fuel around is a good idea. Why not just act like you have a 12 gallon tank instead? I can go about three hours before I need a break anyway, and it gives me about a 300+ mile range, and plenty of time to find a place that sells something besides pig/vegetable fat disguised as fuel.
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Diesel isn't nearly so volatile as gasoline, and people carry gas cans around all the time. And if carried in a proper (approved by EPA, California Air Resources Board, OSHA, and Department of Transportation) container, diesel in a can is just as safe as it is in your fuel tank. CARB approved cans have a vent that is only open when the pour spout valve is open, so it doesn't vent vapors into the air until you're ready to pour. Meaning it can even be carried inside your vehicle if necessary. The can has an air gap at the top for expansion same as your fuel tank does.
I had a couple of CARB-approved diesel cans for hurricane evacuation when I was working for a living, so that I could carry them in my Interstate's wet bath. But when I retired, I was no longer in the position of having to evacuate with the thundering herd; I could bug out long before mandatory evacuations were called, and not have to worry about fuel availability. So I donated the cans to Goodwill.
Note: The wet bath, with stopper in place, provided secondary containment just in case the "spill-proof" can spilled anyway, and the wet bath's vent fan would provide extraction of vapors.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-03-2017, 07:23 AM
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#26
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Minnesota Diesel
After reading several posts about MN not having straight diesel very often, we just completed driving across MN several times. We always found a Cenex dealer who provided their Roadmaster Pro premium diesel. Higher cetane level increased mileage by 1.5 mpg on average.
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08-03-2017, 08:18 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971
With the Illinois bio-diesel mandates I find it interesting that you think you are buying straight non-bio diesel. I contend that the supply chain is full of bio-diesel in those regions where it is mandated by the government so your chances of finding nonbiological diesel are slim.
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I am not aware of Illinois having Bio diesel Mandate.
In the greater Chicago area you will be hard pressed to find BIO diesel.
Where it is sold it is mixed locally. Your statement of the supply chain being contaminated is totally false and misleading.
In any event the fuel gradation has to be clearly posted on the fuel pump. That is a federal mandate.
What you will find in the rural areas is Off road diesel which is not Bio Diesel, it simply contains a dye because there is no sales tax on this product. It is used by farmers and construction. State troopers routinely stop semis to check if they are running with off road fuel.
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08-03-2017, 08:36 AM
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#28
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank
What you will find in the rural areas is Off road diesel which is not Bio Diesel, it simply contains a dye because there is no sales tax on this product. It is used by farmers and construction. State troopers routinely stop semis to check if they are running with off road fuel.
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Off-road diesel is not required to be ultra-low sulfur (15ppm or less of sulfur.). It's only required to be low sulfur diesel (500ppm or less). Which means that for those of us who use DEF, off-road diesel can really do a number on the DEF system.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-03-2017, 08:47 AM
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#29
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Rivet Master
Muskogee
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbray333
After reading several posts about MN not having straight diesel very often, we just completed driving across MN several times. We always found a Cenex dealer who provided their Roadmaster Pro premium diesel. Higher cetane level increased mileage by 1.5 mpg on average.
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All I know about Minnesota is what the official policy is according to the state website:
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/renewable...biodiesel.aspx
__________________
2011 Interstate WD/Lounge (since sold).
2020 Leisure Van WonderRTB
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08-03-2017, 08:56 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
Muskogee
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Diesel isn't nearly so volatile as gasoline, and people carry gas cans around all the time.....
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Understood. And I can certainly see your point in an emergency. But for everyday use, the space a container full of diesel would take up would not be worth the hassle to me. And if there is any spillover on the container itself, the inside of the van could end up smelling like a filling station, even if it was safe to do.
I suppose you can drive till your close to empty, then if you can't find a non bio source, use the five gallon can and continue looking, or ditch the can, and just start looking a bit sooner, before you are empty.
The latter option to me makes a bit more sense. And you don't have to take a shower with your legs straddling a can of diesel!
__________________
2011 Interstate WD/Lounge (since sold).
2020 Leisure Van WonderRTB
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08-03-2017, 08:58 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
2022 Atlas
Homosassa
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt.reyesfan
Does anyone have experience running Duramax's long term in Biodiesel blends?
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pt. I have 70k miles on my 15 Duramax. I fuel at three main places. Buckees in Texas which contains biodiesel, Flying J which most have had biodiesel and Shell if not towing which had no biodiesel. It seems like the more miles, the better it runs. 21 mpg not towing but 70 on interstate, 13 towing. DEF consumption has gone down it seems but I don't know why. It's less than a gallon/1,000 miles.
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08-03-2017, 09:17 AM
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#32
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmillerok1
Understood. And I can certainly see your point in an emergency. But for everyday use, the space a container full of diesel would take up would not be worth the hassle to me.
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That's a decision everyone has to make for themselves. I'm not advocating carrying a can of diesel all the time. I'm just saying that, if someone feels the need to carry extra fuel in their Interstate, it can be done— IF you choose the right fuel can, and IF you exercise some care in where you carry it.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-03-2017, 09:20 AM
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#33
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
DEF consumption has gone down it seems but I don't know why. It's less than a gallon/1,000 miles.
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The DEF system is like a catalytic converter for diesel engines, except that instead of using chemical-impregnated pellets, you use a liquid. Bio-diesel contains even less sulfur that straight ULSD diesel. So naturally you'll use less DEF to treat the sulfur compounds in your exhaust.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-03-2017, 01:19 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton
, Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank
I am not aware of Illinois having Bio diesel Mandate.
In the greater Chicago area you will be hard pressed to find BIO diesel.
Where it is sold it is mixed locally. Your statement of the supply chain being contaminated is totally false and misleading.
In any event the fuel gradation has to be clearly posted on the fuel pump. That is a federal mandate. ...
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OK - it is just an "incentive".
https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/BIOD/IL
... you think the markings on fuel pumps are accurate and enforced? Like breaking the speed limit is against the law...
__________________
- - Mike
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2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
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08-03-2017, 01:39 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton
, Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Off-road diesel is not required to be ultra-low sulfur (15ppm or less of sulfur.). It's only required to be low sulfur diesel (500ppm or less). Which means that for those of us who use DEF, off-road diesel can really do a number on the DEF system.
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This might have been true before 2011 when EPA mandated Tier 4 emissions for off-road equipment.
https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/nonroad.php
http://lubbockonline.com/local-news/...isions-farmers
I didn't even know this was the case until I was talking to my brother-in-law last weekend. He is a farmer in southern Minnesota and told me all his newer farm equipment diesels require DEF. Who knew?
Also it would appear that the only difference in off-road diesel is the dye coloring to show it is not subject to road taxes. It's now all ULSD (15 ppm sulfur) in USA.
https://www.epa.gov/diesel-fuel-stan...nd-rulemakings
http://www.clean-diesel.org/nonroad.html
http://www.davisoil.com/images/dieselfuel.pdf
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2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
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08-04-2017, 07:27 AM
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#36
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Off-road diesel is not required to be ultra-low sulfur (15ppm or less of sulfur.). It's only required to be low sulfur diesel (500ppm or less). Which means that for those of us who use DEF, off-road diesel can really do a number on the DEF system.
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Yes and no.
Newer construction equipment as well as farm equipment modern diesels require the lower sulfur as well. It is not mandated by law however the engines require it.
Older trucks that have been grandfathered in can run on a wide variety of diesel fuels and will buy off road diesel when they can to save lots of bucks. Especially construction dump trucks that can easily fuel up from the onsite fuel tanks that is maintained for the construction equipment. Same with grain haulers.
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08-04-2017, 09:09 AM
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#37
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Rivet Master
Lakes Region
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank
Yes and no.
Newer construction equipment as well as farm equipment modern diesels require the lower sulfur as well. It is not mandated by law however the engines require it.
Older trucks that have been grandfathered in can run on a wide variety of diesel fuels and will buy off road diesel when they can to save lots of bucks. Especially construction dump trucks that can easily fuel up from the onsite fuel tanks that is maintained for the construction equipment. Same with grain haulers.
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After 2014, EPA’s diesel standards require that:
All nonroad, locomotive, and marine (NRLM) diesel fuel must be ULSD
https://www.epa.gov/diesel-fuel-stan...nonroad-diesel
So your saying that engines require it, but suppliers aren't required to provide it? It seems the EPA standard looks like it requires it.
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08-04-2017, 11:12 AM
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#38
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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I occasionally deliver DEF to oil companies in the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles. Their customers are farmers and windmill erection & service companies. I was playing catch up during the June harvest.
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09-28-2018, 12:38 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Fellow Houstonian vanners who go by the handle #Drivingkimbiewild killed their < 1 year old Sprinter, reportedly by grabbing the green fuel nozzle at a BP filling station. Had to get a flatbed tow out of the middle of nowhere.
Refresher training: Probably a good time to remind everyone that green nozzles do not necessarily mean diesel at BP stations.
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09-29-2018, 07:00 AM
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#40
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Rivet Master
2013 Interstate Coach
Waterloo
, Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,598
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And diesel nozzles sometime have yellow handles, not to be confused with E-85 which sometimes have yellow handles too.
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