Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-07-2018, 11:33 PM   #1
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
MB 20,000 mile Oil Change? Not for me!

Since this is my first MB Turbo Diesel, I decided to do my first oil change at 5,000 miles rather than use the MB recommendation of 20,00 miles (or less if the FSS calls for it sooner). Some background - I have been using Mobil1 Full Synthetic for so long on all my vehicles (even on some POS oldies) that I have forgotten when I first started. Longer than my oldest daughter has been alive and she is 36. I have seen it's benefits in some vehicles in the form of slightly lower operating temps and slightly better fuel economy. It's never compensated for the higher cost, but the ability to go longer intervals does offset the higher cost of Mobil1. Some oil analysis on different vehicles have always confirmed the oil is good with plenty of life left and had not degraded yet. I had gas vehicles go to 15,000 miles before oil/filter (yes, same filter) change with no oil degradation (per oil analysis) and that one still runs like a top with 160,000 miles with Mobil1 5W-20 used from Day1. OK, but those are all gas engines.

After seeing the oil/filter on my AI, I really don't care what MB recommends. And while I can not debate MB that their MB 229.52 Low SPAsh oil or MB 229.52 compliant Mobil1 ESP will indeed last 20,000 miles without any degradation, I can not feel good about how filthy, dirty these diesel oils get after only 5,000 miles. Going to 2x or 4x more oil changes is not going to put me in the poor house. We're talking $100 per oil change and that's using the MB OEM 229.52 bought from MB dealer. That's small price to pay for my peace of mind. Dirty oil is enough for me to go much sooner.

YMMV

Anyone done a recent oil analysis on their NCV3 and what were the results? I am sending mine soon. Also, the Lubrizol spec comparison shows 229.52 affords better fuel economy than other previous MB 229.xx standards. My recent 1,000 mile So. Cal. trip does not show even a smidgen increase, so maybe it is just MB hype.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180804_122808-1.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	345.9 KB
ID:	319246   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180723_171640-1.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	267.6 KB
ID:	319247  

Click image for larger version

Name:	chart.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	26.1 KB
ID:	319248  
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 12:38 AM   #2
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,730
Don't agree with your statement that the oils get filthy dirty so quickly. They get black, from the diesel soot, and it takes a lot less than 5000 miles. That by itself isn't a reason to change it. You can't tell anything from the colour of the oil, unless it is milky (water).
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:37 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Lakes Region , New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 815
Yup, gotta agree with above. This being my first diesel, I've done a ton of research and there are quite a few videos explaining how quickly the oil will appear "dirty" just because of the diesel, so not to use that as a gauge. Although my recommended interval is 5000 miles.
I wonder if using B20 in your B5 engine has any affect...
__________________
"Anyone, who actually fought for it, would know that the freedom we fought for, was so no one could tell us what we have to do." -me
RandyNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:50 AM   #4
Prof. of Pending Projects
 
wachuko's Avatar
 
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,569
Alex, can you breakdown cost of supplies? 100.00 for oil and filter is a darn good price. I did not check with the local MB dealer for the oil, my mistake, and the least expensive place had the Mobile for 9.95 (14.95 in other stores).

I spent closer to 150.00 for the oil change. Did not ocurred to me that the oil could have been cheaper at the dealer.

I did the oil change also at 5k miles and plan to do the next one when I hit 10k miles because I want to clean EGR valve at that time. Then continue doing them every 10k miles (or once a year if we do not travel much that year).
__________________
Safe travels!
Wachuko
WBCCI #26769
2018 Airstream Interstate 3500 Lounge EXT Tommy Bahama w/ARS
wachuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:55 AM   #5
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , Milky Way
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17,140
Images: 1
We...

...follow the M/B maint schedule. 👍

Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
Obrigado, ť hora de descansar.

Tahawus
🌤
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 05:04 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
InterBlog's Avatar

 
2007 Interstate
League City , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,617
We always change our own oil using the Mobil turbo diesel synthetic. It goes on sale at Walmart and OíReillyís periodically. Costs us about $80 total including MB filter, but IIRC the T1N holds a bit less oil than the NCV3.

Our interval is once or twice a year, never more than 10,000 miles. Yes itís always black because of the carbon but Iíve read that itís harmless.
InterBlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 05:40 AM   #7
Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
 
GMFL's Avatar

 
2020 30í Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,333
Images: 4
Blog Entries: 52
Alex,
If you want to know for sure, get an oil analysis done by Black-stone. They will tell you how your oil is doing scientifically. 28.00 for some very valuable info and piece of mind.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Edit: sorry I went back and read your post again and saw you were sending one off.
Black-stone is still a great lab.
GMFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 06:19 AM   #8
Site Team
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,581
Oil analysis is interesting and helps record trends in engine wear. Iíve had it done on my Cummins several times.

Current fleet is a 2005 Dodge Ram 5.9L six speed, 196,000 miles and a VW Beetle 1.9L 5 speed 368,000 miles. Both running stock oil filtration.

I do all servicing even timing belt system on the VW 3 times so far.

Iíd be wondering what happened if the dip stick showed oil that wasnít black in them.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 07:00 AM   #9
Prof. of Pending Projects
 
wachuko's Avatar
 
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog View Post
We always change our own oil using the Mobil turbo diesel synthetic. It goes on sale at Walmart and OíReillyís periodically. Costs us about $80 total including MB filter, but IIRC the T1N holds a bit less oil than the NCV3.

Our interval is once or twice a year, never more than 10,000 miles. Yes itís always black because of the carbon but Iíve read that itís harmless.
Yes, 14 quarts in the NCV3... I found these folks selling a kit now for 119.95.. I ordered a kit from them when it was at 109.95) but that turns into 157.76 when you add shipping... (well 240.49 because I also added a fuel filter in the order)

I was used to the color of the oil since we had a John Deer in my dad's hardware store that I use to work on in my younger days, and with the BMW X5 diesel that we have. Even wearing gloves and having old towels around, I still manage to get the driveway and my arms dirty every time I do an oil change...
Attached Images
 
__________________
Safe travels!
Wachuko
WBCCI #26769
2018 Airstream Interstate 3500 Lounge EXT Tommy Bahama w/ARS
wachuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 07:26 AM   #10
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , Milky Way
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17,140
Images: 1
Anti-mess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko View Post
Yes, 14 quarts in the NCV3... I found these folks selling a kit now for 119.95.. I ordered a kit from them when it was at 109.95) but that turns into 157.76 when you add shipping... (well 240.49 because I also added a fuel filter in the order)

I was used to the color of the oil since we had a John Deer in my dad's hardware store that I use to work on in my younger days, and with the BMW X5 diesel that we have. Even wearing gloves and having old towels around, I still manage to get the driveway and my arms dirty every time I do an oil change...
I end up in the dog house if I mess the driveway...👎😂👎

Bob
🇺🇸
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fullsizeoutput_1bdb.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	223.0 KB
ID:	319263  
__________________
Obrigado, ť hora de descansar.

Tahawus
🌤
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 08:29 AM   #11
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko View Post
Alex, can you breakdown cost of supplies? 100.00 for oil and filter is a darn good price. I did not check with the local MB dealer for the oil, my mistake, and the least expensive place had the Mobile for 9.95 (14.95 in other stores).

I spent closer to 150.00 for the oil change. Did not ocurred to me that the oil could have been cheaper at the dealer.

I did the oil change also at 5k miles and plan to do the next one when I hit 10k miles because I want to clean EGR valve at that time. Then continue doing them every 10k miles (or once a year if we do not travel much that year).
WACHUKO - Tom Massano in Reading, PA has the MB 229.52 at $51.50 for 6 pack (6L) so my figures as I recalled them were a bit low. For 14L turns out $120 = $8.58/L. but that includes shipping. My local dealer has the filter for $10.50 which is not the cheapest if you add tax but I was buying other parts for my S500 that they had priced very competitive, so it all balanced out.

EVERYONE - Yeah, after reading lots of articles prior to my first oil change, I realized that the black oil is normal for these engines. I understand oil color on these engines is not a good gauge for it's effectiveness, but I am not one to push it to it's max 20K limit. I do expect the oil analysis to come back just fine. It's just hard for me to get used to such long intervals knowing how black the oil is, after decades of associating such change in color as an indicator to change oil. If excellent results come back from oil analysis, it would tremendously help ease my "outdated" concerns. With my normal usage/mileage & seasonal oil change practice (once before summer, once before winter) I would still end up changing between 5K-8K miles anyway. So, I would never come close to the max anyways. So these concerns are probably moot
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 08:36 AM   #12
Prof. of Pending Projects
 
wachuko's Avatar
 
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,569
I am with you with doing the oil change at shorter intervals... I thought 5K, then 7.5K, and decided to keep it at 10K and add cleaning the EGR valve at that interval as well... and change fuel filter every other oil change.
__________________
Safe travels!
Wachuko
WBCCI #26769
2018 Airstream Interstate 3500 Lounge EXT Tommy Bahama w/ARS
wachuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 09:08 AM   #13
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
Alex,
If you want to know for sure, get an oil analysis done by Black-stone. They will tell you how your oil is doing scientifically. 28.00 for some very valuable info and piece of mind.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Edit: sorry I went back and read your post again and saw you were sending one off.
Black-stone is still a great lab.
GMFL - Yep, Blackstone, used them for years, that's where I am sending this sample too. I used to live in Chicago and part of my geographic service area included Fort Wayne, IN. That's when I found out about Blackstone.
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 10:26 AM   #14
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I end up in the dog house if I mess the driveway...👎😂👎

Bob
🇺🇸
ROBERTCROSS, WACHUKO - regarding oil on driveway, yes I will end up in trouble too, both from wife & HOA if I get oil on driveway. But my driveway has a nice complex slope (fore/aft and lateral) which makes it drain nicely vs. the flat slab inside garage. So I have learned to use my rubber 3'x5' outdoor mat under vehicle to catch spills. So far so good. Then I got the bright idea to use this thing called E&P Hydraulic Levelers. With the manual option, I tilted the C/S up a bit more to give a steeper angle to oil pan. Great idea, in concept. But what I did not realize was my 16qt. oil change container did not have a deep lip. This combined with the steeper oil pan angle created more splashing & much bigger volume oil rush. My container was unable to drain fast enough that the top overflowed onto the mat. Luckily I caught it right away to put drain plug back. Still, a small amount got on the concrete but I got to it fast enough before it soaked in. Adverted a big oil spill disaster (had I not used rubber mat & left it alone to drain for 15mins. as I normally do with the other cars). Whew!

Lesson learned - will use my Sterilite 15 or 20 qt. plastic storage containers to catch the oil. In retrospect, should've done this and save $20 I paid for big oil change container. That was what the lady in YouTube used for her Sprinter oil change and I made fun of her being too cheap to buy a proper container. Turns out she was the smarter DIYer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180808_082101.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	289.7 KB
ID:	319296   Click image for larger version

Name:	65ee0cec-68b8-4dc3-80db-c3fb21f371dc_1.dd6662258cc12a95f1d50a797b77c192.jpeg
Views:	64
Size:	23.8 KB
ID:	319297  

Attached Images
 
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 12:03 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Box Elder (formerly of Center Moriches, NY) , South Dakota
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 329
NOTE: There are MANY different types of Mobil-1 Full Synthetic Oil. MOST are NOT rated for use in Mercedes Benz Sprinters. I had a 2010 Sprinter van (a contractor van, not an RV). The manual listed TWENTY-ONE "approved" motor oils, NONE of which could be found in "the usual channels" (auto/truck parts stores, warehouse clubs, Walmart, etc). My choices were to buy directly from a MB dealer or, order online. I found "Pentosin", a German oil that was one of the MB approved oils online (and on sale). I never needed it but, I was happy to have should the need arise. Other than using the proper oil, I would say it's important to use GENUINE MB OEM filters. Yes, you'll pay a bit more but, I simply wouldn't trust "Brand-X" filters.

Use an oil/lube (or filter) that is NOT approved by MB and, if a serious problem arises, before MB covers it as a warranty item, they're likely to check the fluid/filter involved. Wrong (non-approved) fluids/filters can = warranty coverage denied.
NY24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 12:04 PM   #16
Prof. of Pending Projects
 
wachuko's Avatar
 
2018 Tommy Bahama Interstate
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,569
If I did not wanted to use a magnetic plug I would have gone with the drain valve Robert linked in his post... that would allow the use of a hose and avoid any spills due to the splash when the oil first hits the oil container... I too had that issue of not placing the oil change container far enough... but I only had a small amount going over the lip. I have that same one you posted:

__________________
Safe travels!
Wachuko
WBCCI #26769
2018 Airstream Interstate 3500 Lounge EXT Tommy Bahama w/ARS
wachuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:43 PM   #17
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by wachuko View Post
I too had that issue of not placing the oil change container far enough... but I only had a small amount going over the lip. I have that same one you posted:
WACHUKO - you triggered an idea which would never crossed my mind if you had not mentioned "use of a hose". Next oil change, I will loosen oil drain plug, then use an old sock with hole cut off at the end, use the cuff to undo the now loose oil drain plug and let the sock prevent any splashing oil. Finally, a useful task for my old socks Thank you for that indirect contribution. This is why posting these issues helps, many ideas pro/cons still ends up contributing.
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 06:07 PM   #18
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
This reminds me of buying our 2012 Honda Pilot; 6,000 kms later my oil life on the maintenance schedule minder is still at 70%. So I phone up the local Honda dealer and have a chat with a service advisor; he stated that it wasn't uncommon for Pilots to come in for their first oil change at 18,000 to 24,000 kms. To which I choked back a reply; "you've got to be joking"(cleaned up of course).

My take on "service reminder computers" is this; they were designed by the marketing department to reduce the amount of dealer returns for service by the "lease it new every three years millenial crowd", which then would add to the misery of the "buy it three years used crowd, (me), and the "keep it forever crowd", (again me).

I get my engine oil changed at 8,000 kms, and I also run the VCMuzzler on my Pilot; to hell with Honda's marketing department for demanding their engineers build a 4,500 lb SUV to run on 3 cylinders.

Trust your instincts, and know this; fluids are cheap in comparison to engine and transmission rebuilds.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

ďItís a recession when your neighbor loses his job; itís a depression when you lose your own.Ē "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 06:22 PM   #19
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex AVI View Post
Yeah, after reading lots of articles prior to my first oil change, I realized that the black oil is normal for these engines. I understand oil color on these engines is not a good gauge for it's effectiveness, but I am not one to push it to it's max 20K limit. I do expect the oil analysis to come back just fine. It's just hard for me to get used to such long intervals knowing how black the oil is, after decades of associating such change in color as an indicator to change oil.
Actually, oil colour in general isn’t a good indicator for any engine, not just diesels. It has long been used by disreputable shops to sell oil changes.

As an example, oils have additives to keep contaminants in suspension. If they are still working, the oil will look dirty. When they are depleted, the contaminants will settle out. Other things being equal, which oil needs changing more?

I worked in my employer’s oil sampling lab for a while (not Blackburn). We used it for heavy equipment, on highway class 8 trucks, Marine applications, etc. Be careful of relying on an oil sample to tell you if you verything is fine. If you are doing large particle analysis, which typically isn’t done as part of the base analysis, perhaps. But the real value of oil sampling is not from one sample, but rather a trend line. And that includes a sample of the clean oil when you do an oil change. Otherwise you don’t know how the TBN has changed and what the state of the additive package is. Also, be wary of comparisons in the analysis report. If they are based on a comparison to your fleet of similar (or better, identical) vehicles, they have some value. If they are compared to other samples across “8 cylinder engines” as an example, they don’t mean much.

Oil sampling pays dividends when the cost of unexpected downtime from a failure exceeds the cost of sampling. I never sampled the oil in my personal vehicles, it wasn’t worth it to me. I have run, and still run, up to 24,000 km (15,000 mile) oil change intervals on each of my last six (gasoline) vehicles, per manufacturer’s recommendations, with never an issue or any increased oil consumption.

Our current vehicle has just over 160,000 km, had the last oil change early around 20,000 km, and didn’t have room in the sump to add a litre of top up oil at the time of the service.
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 07:14 PM   #20
Wannabe RV'er in training
 
Alex AVI's Avatar
 
2018 Interstate Lounge Ext
High Desert , Las Vegas , Nevada
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isuzusweet View Post
Trust your instincts, and know this; fluids are cheap in comparison to engine and transmission rebuilds.
ISUZUSWEET - Yes, my sentiments. Cheap insurance. If I over-did it, I am out 2 hrs & $200 per year

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
But the real value of oil sampling is not from one sample, but rather a trend line. And that includes a sample of the clean oil when you do an oil change. Otherwise you donít know how the TBN has changed and what the state of the additive package is. Also, be wary of comparisons in the analysis report. If they are based on a comparison to your fleet of similar (or better, identical) vehicles, they have some value. If they are compared to other samples across ď8 cylinder enginesĒ as an example, they donít mean much.

Oil sampling pays dividends when the cost of unexpected downtime from a failure exceeds the cost of sampling. I never sampled the oil in my personal vehicles, it wasnít worth it to me. I have run, and still run, up to 24,000 km (15,000 mile) oil change intervals on each of my last six (gasoline) vehicles, per manufacturerís recommendations, with never an issue or any increased oil consumption.
JCL - True, any of my vehicles that I have oil sampled always starts on 1st oil change with sample of the clean oil. Costs an extra fee to establish TBN baseline, but again it is cheap. I never pay attention to comp reports, first of all I don't have a fleet of identical units. Second, the only thing of concern to me is my own vehicle's trend from it's baseline. I do not sample all my vehicles, but certain ones get the extra preventive maintenance by virtue of their price, vintage, or importance to me. The cost of sampling has no bearing on these vehicles , especially since by the nature of their status they are neither daily drivers or driven to the ground. So an analysis once a year hardly makes a dent in the overall household automotive budget. It is always worth it for me to do on these vehicles. The AI falls in this "pamper-my-baby" category.
Alex AVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To oil or not to Oil woodyarn General Repair Forum 14 08-03-2012 08:05 AM
Ford DieselCare+ 7 year/200,000 mile warranty westernviews Tow Vehicles 11 01-26-2011 11:39 AM
8,000 mile trip just completed markjoandall On The Road... 5 07-27-2004 06:57 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.