MB 20,000 mile Oil Change? Not for me!

[switz]

That 55 gallon from will wipeout your payload and will take uptake backend of the ML......

I had 55 gallon barrels of 303 engine oil, hydraulic fluid and smaller barrels for the grease gun and rear end lube at the farm years ago all with ARO pumps. Former wife needed that along with all of the tools.....

That did make servicing a lot easier than opening a whole bunch of quart cans.

[Tobbun]

Came across this site off the FB airstream group. Can be a bit long and is basically selling a service but thought there was some good info as well. Have no expertise in this area so posting without endorsement.
http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by Tobbun

Came across this site off the FB airstream group. Can be a bit long and is basically selling a service but thought there was some good info as well. Have no expertise in this area so posting without endorsement.
http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/

He is charging now... he used to help for free before. Seems he got tired of people abusing his generosity and started to charge to weed out folks that left him doing all the work. Plus I think he mentions that he is retired now and rather prefers to spend time with grand kids.

I had an older write up where there was specific oil recommendations... but I see that his document got updated and that part was removed due to the new specs required on the newer Sprinters.

BTW, that was were I got the recommendation on the magnetic plug. There is also that filter housing made in Canada that allows the use of normal screw-in type filters... but I am not going that far. I will just replace the filter and oil more frequently.

[Tobbun]

Found it informative. Seemed like besides the oil type (MB having marketing agreement with Mobile1) the other thing that really stood out to me was the engine oil being used to cool the turbo and the actual heat generated with that oil?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Tobbun

Found it informative. Seemed like besides the oil type (MB having marketing agreement with Mobile1) the other thing that really stood out to me was the engine oil being used to cool the turbo and the actual heat generated with that oil?

All turbochargers I have run were cooled by engine oil.

On a 3.0 litre turbocharged gasoline engine, the oil specification related to breakdown due to heat is more critical than with a diesel due to the higher exhaust gas temperatures on the gasoline engine. That made me very conscious of oil specs, but good synthetics were standing up to 24,000 km change intervals on that (gasoline) DI twin turbo engine when I ran it.

[Keyair]

Great thread, and whilst we don't own a AI, we DO own a 2009 ML320 Bluetec, same motor and trans I believe.

Here is my experience, and knowledge so far...

Our ML arrived in our lives in March 2017, with 56,000, which I was pleased with.
It also arrived with a CEL on...
To cut a long story short, we got close to $4500 back from Ebay warrantee claim, for undisclosed damage, the CEL, and fraud perpetrated by the FL dealer, who went out of business subsequently.
The payment from Ebay made a good car, with some issues into a GREAT deal...

What have i learned in the last 18m?

DO NOT own or buy a MB Bluetec without buying the ICarsoft MB2 code reader...
Its $160 price tag off Ebay will SAVE YOU $1000s!
Amazing bit of kit!

The CEL turned out to be the Adblue tank heater...
The word is that these are running at a 100% failure rate...
The dealer quoted $2100 to replace the heater alone...

My research indicated that the Adblue pumps fail soon after the heater goes, then the level sensors go....

I elected to do the work myself and bought the complete new, updated tank assembly, with pump and heater, level sensors. etc, online, for $1250.

We have an ongoing intermittent CEL that is related to the NOX sensor. Says its out of range, heater shorted to ground etc...
I found that online for $325 shipped, but haven't fitted it yet..

I have also noted we have the "Grey Goo" weeping from the engine mount brackets... I will replace those soon.

Apart from that, the ML runs great, the GF loves it and it returns 22 to 29 mpg on our routes.
Gotta love 400ftlb of torque, in a 5000lb SUV!

Now, onto this oil question...

To establish a base line, I changed the oil/filter with the MB correct M1 0-30 Synthetic, and a MANN filter, soon after we got the car, but according to the MB service records, it had been done at 53,000, so 3.000 or so miles on it, with the correct oil, according to the MB dealer...
At this moment I also added a Magnetic drain plug.

That original oil was sent to Blackstone, and the report was interesting...
It showed elevated metal... but particularly Iron, at 95PPM.
Note the testers comments in the attached report...... He basically stated that the metal was indicative of a 10k mile oil, not 3k mile.

I was concerned, so, after THAT MB spec 0-30 had been in the engine 4500 miles, I changed it again.
Note, that this oil did a 5 BIG adult loaded, with full luggage, 1200 mile dash to AZ for a wedding in May, and I estimate we were close to 1100lb of human and 300lb of baggage.... at high speed, in 100+ deg weather.

There was a little bit of fuzz on the drain plug magnet, but nothing too scary.
That #2 oil sample, was sent to Blackstone, and as the attached report shows, the tester indicated that the metal levels were better at 57ppm, but not optimal.

I had decided based upon living in CA, the heat, and absorbing Stephensons oil suggestions, I went with Mobil 1, 5-40 Full synthetic Turbo Diesel Truck Oil. My logic was that a thicker oil when hot, would help.
I am told, this oil is acceptable spec for our engine as its is C4 spec.

I ran this oil for 3800 miles, which was ALL short drives, of 15 miles or less, except a trip from CA to Phoenix, AZ, a round trip of 900 miles, which we did in January 2018, and averaged 29mpg at 75mph....

The Blackstone report makes interesting reading... apart from my mistake of stating the oil was 15-40 not 5-40.

I replaced the 5-40 with the same 5-40... I will report back what the report says in 3/4000 miles...

Hope this helps people...

[Keyair]

As a followup to my post above....
I also have as my DD, a 1984 Mercedes 190D, with 220,000 miles on the Odo now...

Please notice the attached picture of a ML320 Bluetec Oil filter and the filter that goes in my 190D.
The non turbocharged, 2.2 liter, 4 cylinder 190D made 71hp and 96ftlb when new...
That filter is the lower one... and MB suggested oil and filter should be changed @5000 miles.

The ML320 Bluetec, 3.0 Liter, Turbocharged V6 filter, making 210 hp and 399ftlb torque is the upper one..
MB says change @ 20,000 miles

Now absorb the differences... and yes, the filter paper on the 190d filter goes to the bottom of the metal canister.

[Keyair]

Yes, I'd like info on the upgraded Filter assembly for the Bluetec motor... post or PM me please!

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Now absorb the differences... and yes, the filter paper on the 190d filter goes to the bottom of the metal canister.

KEYAIR - very interesting read on your ML experiences, from the Ebay stuff to Blackstone results and the pics of the 190 & ML filters. Not knowing anything about the actual build of the 190 filter, just observing the pic seems to show a very similar filter for the 190D (if not identical) with the obvious heavier gauge outer mesh. Not sure that does anything to filtering anything given the large holes, but presume it is there to help mitigate filter collapse. Never seen one collapse but never ran one long enough to find out

If your point is need a much better filter for higher output motors, the point well taken. This filter for my S500 and that only has 9 qt. capacity, much bigger surface area than the Sprinter filter..

[Keyair]

Here is a link to the M1 TD oil I used... I meant CK4 rated, in my comment above.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/m...o-diesel-truck

It has the following ratings:
CK‐4, CJ‐4, CI‐4,
CI‐4 Plus, SN,
Caterpillar ECF‐2
and ECF‐3

Notable is the increased amount of Phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additives in this oil.

I buy it at our local Walmart, and pay about $25 for the larger container which I think is a gallon.
Obviously, our ML is not longer under warrantee, so I can do what I want, but based upon the Blackstone lab report, for me, the M1 5-40 TD oil is performing better than the 0-30 in the heat here...

If anyone who has read the Stephensons service opinion, the bit that caught MY attention was the part about how the oil gets boiled and basically evaporates out of the engine and into the breather...

If you really want to scare yourself into changing your oil more often and with good oil, look at this thread and particularly post #198....
Story is about a 2010 ML Bluetec, with full MB service history that suddenly seized at 80k miles...

https://mbworld.org/forums/diesel-fo...-seized-8.html

[Titus]

I use the plastic pan intended to go under washing machines when I change the oil. I put the oil drain container inside the plastic pan. I often get some oil that misses the drain pan, but it has always been contained within the washing machine pan (~30" square).

(I also use the same plastic pan on the kitchen floor when doing my homebrew bottling.)

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

I use the plastic pan intended to go under washing machines when I change the oil. I put the oil drain container inside the plastic pan. I often get some oil that misses the drain pan, but it has always been contained within the washing machine pan (~30" square).

(I also use the same plastic pan on the kitchen floor when doing my homebrew bottling.)

TITUS - Great idea and I have an extra one too. Because our laundry room is upstairs, I never see it when I in garage. Now it's down there by the oil change kits. That's better than me laying down plastic tarp or shipping blanket under oil container. Does the oil make the homebrew go down smoother ?

[vintageracer]

The manufacturer says change oil at 20K miles.

The manufacturer has mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, structural engineers and a great lunch facility to feed their creativity and expertise yet EVERYONE here on this and most any other forum knows much better than the experts who design, create, test and manufacture these engines when is the proper time to change oil and the what is the best type of oil to run their vehicle.

The armchair owners absolute knowledge of what it the right thing concerning oil change intervals and oil type/viscosity which NEVER matches what the manufacturer says to use with all their millions of Dollars spent to create that engine and therefore really does know what is required to keep that engine running properly with many years and many miles.

WHY IS THIS?????

[switz]

Perhaps the engine failures after the 50,000 mile warranty is over is with only two oil changes does not come out of the pockets of the vehicle's design team's personal pockets. The engine needs to last only as long as the warranty. Then shaft the customer...

[Hawk-ination]

Aftermarket brands and parts replacement are covered by federal law under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. A manufacturer cannot limit a warranty based on the brand under this act.

Specs and brands on fluids have gotten to be tricky in the past ten to twenty or so years. Keep in mind there aren't a lot of oil makers. Brands, yes, but actual oil "factories", no. Only a few bottlers. Probably quite a few of the same type products getting different labels slapped on different colored bottles. Doesn't mean one shouldn't make sure the specs cover what is required from the manufacturer though.

Just one thought, I have yet to see any parts/engines reported failed due to a fluid (and particularly spec) issue in my 17 years of being in the parts business. Take it for what it's worth. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's usually parts failure or cost that is the death of most modern engines. We run 300,000 miles quite consistently on our fleet vehicles too. The oil is changed religiously though.

Just FYI, our MB dealer suggested 10K oil changes when I checked last month.

I was taught in the past that it's not necessarily the oil breakdown as much as it is the filter media filling up more and more and filtering less and less as the oil gets contaminates added as it flows through the engine and system. As it fills up, it's filtering capability becomes less and less. All engines will distribute a certain amount of metal filings and contaminates in normal operations. I'd question leaving them flowing around for 20K miles, with probably a full filter that is not filtering them out much any longer, but to each is own.

It's good to make an informed decision so good discussion regarding what works with individual thoughts and results so far.

[Titus]

I would have more confidence in a 20,000 mile oil change interval if I thought it was developed by the engineering disciplines mentioned. But I suspect it was developed by sales and marketing as a way to improve the competitiveness of a Sprinter in commercial applications. Engineers likely response to this idea was 'relatively few Sprinters are likely do fail due to loss of oil control if the oil change interval is stretched to 20,000 miles'. I would be curious to know if any engine design changes were made when the change interval changed from 10,000 miles in my 2012 to 15,000 to 20,000 miles now. I suspect that engine failure mode data showed these interval increases were an acceptable risk compared to the perceived marketing advantage gain. Apologies to all forum readers who are in sales and marketing

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

I would be curious to know if any engine design changes were made when the change interval changed from 10,000 miles in my 2012 to 15,000 to 20,000 miles now.

TITUS - I agree with you. 10k miles was used as the standard Oil Change Interval on that engine for awhile. MB moved to 14k miles around 2013 on that engine. MB cannot (or will not) point to any engineering differences in the engine's different MY production that allow them to go longer, other than from increased confidence in their engine performance data and historical failure data. Couple that with the new synthetic formulations seems to have given them the confidence to push the extended OCI. However, 20k is still considered an EXTENDED OCI. Driving under 'extreme conditions' is always a caveat emptor that MB points to that will override that extended OCI.

The Mercedes-Benz OM642 engine is used in many other MB models (E, C, G, S, R, ML models) and Chrysler cars (300), Jeep Cherokee & Commander. But under those different models, the predominant OCI is 10k-15k. Which leads me to believe MB uses the 20k OCI as mostly a commercial marketing tool for the Sprinter. (as you also stated). If you couple the "driving under extreme conditions" (which includes driving in city traffic in the NV & AZ southwest desert at 115-120 degressF) and the Sprinter manual stating "Mercedes-Benz recommends that you change the engine oil before the start of the cold season (which would apply to many cold weather states), it is easy to see that most will end up having to replace their oil well before the 20k if one diligently adheres to the letter of the MB manuals.

I have been taking my MB cars (and now the Sprinter) to Fletcher Jones Imports in Las Vegas since 1999. They have been an excellent & trustworthy service provider for me for 20 yrs (though pricey). They tailor their maintenance schedules not just by what MB recommends, but by what the local conditions dictates. This is what they post in their "Quick Guide to Metris & Sprinter Maintenance"

"When to Come in for Service A and Service B -
Your Mercedes-Benz “A” Service is usually performed by Master-Certified Technicians after the first 10,000 miles or 1 year of ownership—whichever occurs first. Afterward, the schedule changes to every 20,000 miles/2 years for 2009 or newer Sprinter Vans. Several routine repairs and maintenances are carried out during Service A, including:
- AdBlue® Replacement (for diesel vehicles only, such as the Sprinter)
- Fuel Filter Replacement
- Oil Filter Replacement
- Mercedes-Benz Synthetic Motor Oil Replacement"

They use that 1st yr or 10k oil to assess the condition of the oil at that point. Then regardless of how it is, 2 yrs is the most they would stretch it to regardless of how low the mileage is.

[Alex AVI]

Well, today, in prep for my Moab & Bryce trip tomo, I discovered that the 1st Service Interval expected by the Sprinter ECU is no more than 2 yrs, regardless of mileage. I was going to do my 2nd oil/filter change after the trip (approx. 11,000) but since I plan to have MB do Service A & B at least while under warranty, will leave the oil/filter change to them.

My mileage - 10,001 miles
MB MFD date - 10/2017 (no day noted)
Message - Service A due in 29 days

So for me, under my current usage, 20,000 miles ext. OCI is moot since I would hit the 2 yr mark well before the 20,000.

[Titus]

I don't recall ever getting a '# of days' reminder to Service A. Mine has always been a '# of miles' reminder. But we average 15,000 miles per year, so we would reach 10,000 miles well before we reach 1 year.

Exception might have been during our initial ownership (too long ago to remember). Sprinter was mfg'd in 2012, Interstate date of mfgr was Oct 2013. We bought it in April 2014 with <100 miles on it. Did my first oil change in May 2014 at 3600 miles.

Warranty beginning was reset to April 2014 when we bought it, but I'd guess the ASSYST setting dates back to 2012.

[InterBlog]

Rather than hatch a new thread, I chose the most in-depth older one to append with some new information.

Let me state the obvious - the world has changed profoundly since this late-2019 thread was developed. Every post I write is with a heavy heart these days. A gallon of diesel is now $5.30 in Texas, about $6.40 in the northeastern U.S., and a few pennies under $7.00 in California. Headlines are also warning of looming DEF shortages.

And turbo-diesel engine oil is no longer available in my neck of the woods (greater Houston metro), which is the subject of this post, because we all need to know what to do about that particular shortage.

Let me tell you the story of the few hours it took me to get hold of oil change supplies today.

I first called MB’s parts department because I have, for years, bought oil and filters from them. More expensive, but with the amount of time and money that we have put into our Interstate over the years, I don’t worry about it.

I was told that they would sell me two filters, but no oil. They were reserving what little oil they can get for use in vehicles brought to them for engine work.

Ok, then I went through the Internet searching the metro. Nobody had any gallon jugs, but a few of the usual suspects (such as O’Reilly) had a quart here or there of Mobil Turbo Diesel Truck Oil, which is the other brand formulation that many of us default to. No retailer had enough in stock for me to do a full oil change, but I figured I would start hoovering up individual quarts, and keep going until I found enough.

I set out for MB first. As I was about to pay for the filters, I made a joke about being told on the phone that no oil would be sold to me for the foreseeable future. The cashier said, “Wait a minute - a little bit just came in.” Lo and behold, 9 precious quarts were suddenly in inventory. Our Interstate takes 9.5 quarts, but I will make up the difference using a compatible product.

So then I thought I would cruise by O’Reilly, Autozone, and Walmart just to snag a quart for completion and maybe two more for make-up, in case I need them on the next long trip.

But by the time I got to O’Reilly, another shopper had cleaned out the few quarts that they’d had on the shelf when I had phoned to check 90 minutes before, so I was empty-handed there, and at the other two stores mentioned above as well.

MB told me that they are currently backordered by 600 quarts of diesel vehicle motor oil (Edit: And that’s just on the consumer side, not the service side). What’s happening all over America right now is that magic word again - allocation. Each retailer is getting allocated teeny tiny fractions of their backorders - today it was a fulfillment representing 1.5% of their stock on order, in MB’s case. Which went back out the door with me within minutes of its arrival.

Meanwhile, as all this time-wasting drama was unfolding, my husband dug around on the internet trying to identify an alternate motor oil product that is best suited to turbo diesels, and that IS available in the market right now. He found that the Mobil product called European Car Formula might be the best option.

So, the question is, does anyone else have any opinions on that, if we take both MB and Mobil Turbo Diesel off the table as formulation choices due to the shortages?

My rare and unexpected haul today: