Lion Energy Lithium batteries in the Interstate?

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by iaqstuff

Wxbuoy, I included the green isolation manager in my latest revision. That isolates charging the lithiums via alternator using a limited on/off method.
You could also consider the DC to DC managers.
It's a matter of choice. Both methods have pros and cons.

Originally Posted by iaqstuff

Wxbuoy, I included the green isolation manager in my latest revision. That isolates charging the lithium's via alternator using a limited on/off method.
You could also consider the DC to DC managers.
It's a matter of choice. Both methods have pros and cons.

iaqstuff & Heckler56,

Thanks for the info! I am going with 3 Lifeblue batts and want to be able to get some charge while driving if needed. I like the idea of an On/Off switch to isolate the chassis batt as well. What kind di you use?

iaqstuff; If I remember correctly the 2013 Ai has the power distribution etc under the couch. If so, I envy you! When they put all that crap under the drivers side rear seat it made it a PIA to work on! You can't get to the wiring from the top and have to take the distribution panel off the front, but is is wired so tight there is not enough room to get past the panel to get at it.

view from top:


view from front around corner of distribution panel.

[Heckler56]

Wxbuoy, I bought a bunch of these switches on Amazon. The one is for solar and the other is for the alternator/chassis line. Since the photo I added a 3rd switch to shutoff power to the inverter (saves a parasitic draw boondocking). I also moved the inverter fuse next to the inverter (last thing I want to do is pull the distribution panel just to replace that fuse).

Nilight Battery Switch 12-48V Waterproof Heavy Duty Battery Power Cut Master Switch Disconnect Isolator for Car Vehicle RV and Marine Boat (On/Off),2 Years Warranty

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by Heckler56

Wxbuoy, I bought a bunch of these switches on Amazon. The one is for solar and the other is for the alternator/chassis line. Since the photo I added a 3rd switch to shutoff power to the inverter (saves a parasitic draw boondocking). I also moved the inverter fuse next to the inverter (last thing I want to do is pull the distribution panel just to replace that fuse).

Nilight Battery Switch 12-48V Waterproof Heavy Duty Battery Power Cut Master Switch Disconnect Isolator for Car Vehicle RV and Marine Boat (On/Off),2 Years Warranty

Thanks!! You are the man getting all that to fit in there! Our Magnum is removed since we put a larger one with the new batts and solar stuff under the couch. I was trying to figure out how to do what you did with relocating the inverter fuse and adding a cut off switch. Off to Amazon now to get some switches.

[iaqstuff]

Wxbuoy, I used the same switches. Use one for anything you want to isolate. I used 3, but could've used 4.
As the energy-related configuration changed in almost each year or model, it's difficult to make absolute statements about what's best in every case. Add to that, our initial use of the AI evolved over the years.
Like I originally posted - placing everything in a true "B" van setup is most perplexing.[emoji2957]

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by iaqstuff

Wxbuoy, I used the same switches. Use one for anything you want to isolate. I used 3, but could've used 4.
As the energy-related configuration changed in almost each year or model, it's difficult to make absolute statements about what's best in every case. Add to that, our initial use of the AI evolved over the years.
Like I originally posted - placing everything in a true "B" van setup is most perplexing.[emoji2957]

I went with 5 switches, so far. Solar, inverter, alternator/chassis batteries to house, coach batteries & radio.

[Justinfinity]

It's not about the battery; it's about the BMS - the Battery Management System. The BMS can be integrated into the battery or it can be an external component.

Personally, I don't like the Battleborn BIM device because the charging profile they built into the device essentially cripples the charge current available in an attempt to protect the alternator.

Look at my other posts about my Solar / Lithium / Alternator charging system.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Justinfinity

It's not about the battery; it's about the BMS - the Battery Management System. The BMS can be integrated into the battery or it can be an external component.

Personally, I don't like the Battleborn BIM device because the charging profile they built into the device essentially cripples the charge current available in an attempt to protect the alternator.

Look at my other posts about my Solar / Lithium / Alternator charging system.

Hi

Umm .... errrr ...

If "only" charging at a 1C rate is an issue, I'd suggest you study up a bit ...

Even at that rate (1C) you are already starting to impact battery life. Going higher only shortens the life further.

Bob

[Justinfinity]

Look at the way the Li-BIM profile works. It shuts off the charge supply every 20 minutes or so. That means it is effectively cutting the otherwise available charge capacity by a substantial amount.

I have 2x200AH of Lithium battery capacity in my trailer, and they can be charged at 120AH each. I have dual alternators in my tow vehicle and consistently get 70A of charge current to my trailer's Lithium batteries. So, even after only a few hours of driving, I arrive at my destination with a 100% charge.

If I used the Li-BIM, it would double or triple the drive time needed to charge the batteries. I don't like the product. As I stated, it's all about the BMS. If you have a smart BMS you don't need a dumb Li-BIM.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Justinfinity

Look at the way the Li-BIM profile works. It shuts off the charge supply every 20 minutes or so. That means it is effectively cutting the otherwise available charge capacity by a substantial amount.

I have 2x200AH of Lithium battery capacity in my trailer, and they can be charged at 120AH each. I have dual alternators in my tow vehicle and consistently get 70A of charge current to my trailer's Lithium batteries. So, even after only a few hours of driving, I arrive at my destination with a 100% charge.

If I used the Li-BIM, it would double or triple the drive time needed to charge the batteries. I don't like the product. As I stated, it's all about the BMS. If you have a smart BMS you don't need a dumb Li-BIM.

Hi

ummmm ..... errrrr ......

Most alternators (regardless of what the data sheet implies ) will provide rated power for minutes, not hours. They also will only deliver that power at what is essentially "full revs" on the engine. Most modern engines are set up to run a lot closer to 1,000 rpm than 5,000. Net is you get < 20A out of your "70A" alternator on a typical drive.

Why does it work this way?

Well, the alternator is set up to charge the battery in the vehicle. In most modern cars, that's *maybe* a 30AH device. Figure 2X that in a lot of trucks. Just like in an RV, they don't count on you discharging it very far. 20 or 30A for half an hour should be *plenty* to charge your truck battery. Yes, there are other things like headlights that get into the mix. The modern LED stuff is pretty energy efficient ...

Next up, you have cables from the alternator up in front of the tow vehicle to the "way back" in the trailer. Typically they are number 10 wire. The loss in that wire is such than at 70A, the delivered voltage would be roughly zero volts. In addition , the fuse on the wire will pop at 20 to 30A. If it doesn't, the wire / plug will melt.

Bob

[Justinfinity]

You can stop with the "Umm, err".

Everything you say is old school.

I get consistent 70A charge to my lithium batteries on my trailer from the dual alternator setup on my tow vehicle, and I get it through 2/0 gauge cable run from my tow vehicle to my trailer. I don't run it through 10 gauge wire or the 7-way connector. Nothing melts.

[AdvToaster]

Originally Posted by Justinfinity

You can stop with the "Umm, err".

Everything you say is old school.

I get consistent 70A charge to my lithium batteries on my trailer from the dual alternator setup on my tow vehicle, and I get it through 2/0 gauge cable run from my tow vehicle to my trailer. I don't run it through 10 gauge wire or the 7-way connector. Nothing melts.

Are you running through a battery charger or just straight from the TV battery/alternator to the trailer batteries?

[Hawk-ination]

Hold on here.... this post is for Interstates, and there’s no need to get at each other’s throats at all.

Justinfinity and Uncle Bob, you are going a bit in the wrong way. We are not talking about adding a second alternator, we were talking about putting lithium batteries in an Interstate. There are concerns that members need to know and talk about as the extra pull off your alternator can cause it to overheat, fail, or worse. It’s good to have productive discussions about BIMs but we are talking a bit of a different animal than your trailer and truck setup. Some information relates, but still...

I respectfully and kindly request you consider taking your discussion (argument) to a different post as this one totally got hijacked. No need to get snippy on this one. I’d rather see constructive discussion personally.

[Justinfinity]

Originally Posted by AdvToaster

Are you running through a battery charger or just straight from the TV battery/alternator to the trailer batteries?

Happy to discuss it constructively, just not on this thread.

[Justinfinity]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

Hold on here.... this post is for Interstates, and there’s no need to get at each other’s throats at all.

Justinfinity and Uncle Bob, you are going a bit in the wrong way. We are not talking about adding a second alternator, we were talking about putting lithium batteries in an Interstate. There are concerns that members need to know and talk about as the extra pull off your alternator can cause it to overheat, fail, or worse. It’s good to have productive discussions about BIMs but we are talking a bit of a different animal than your trailer and truck setup. Some information relates, but still...

I respectfully and kindly request you consider taking your discussion (argument) to a different post as this one totally got hijacked. No need to get snippy on this one. I’d rather see constructive discussion personally.

I completely agree with you about keeping things civil.

The points I originally made still stand and still apply whether it's a motorhome or a trailer:

1. The Li-BIM is a weird crippled product and people accept it without understanding that it essentially forgoes one of the chief benefits of a Lithium battery, namely, a high charge acceptance rate.

2. There are more sensible ways to protect an alternator, such as a more intelligent charging profile and BMS.

3. A DC-DC charger can control the current in a more intelligent manner but it also can be unnecessarily limiting (depending on the size of the charger). For example, if your alternator can output 60A continuously, and you have a 30A DC-DC charger, you may have have needlessly limited your charge capability. Since Lithium batteries can (and usually should) accept higher charge current, now you may be harming your $1000 lithium battery while trying to protect your $100 alternator.

4. Also, for example, the Victron Cyrix Li-Ct ($75) can provide the desired functionality and protection, in a properly designed system. I used one in mine. You can add a momentary switch that connects the Lithium batteries in order to start the vehicle if the vehicle starter battery fails. It's a great "get home" safeguard.

5. Sizing (and fusing) wire appropriately for current is always applicable in any application, whether motorhome or trailer. Don't try to do this through factory/stock wiring. Include properly sized wiring, fuses, and switches in your build.

6. Even in a single alternator application, the vehicle/starter battery provides built in protection for the alternator because it can act as a load dump in a properly designed system.

7. Companies such as AM Solar provide a number of alternator charging kits customized accordingly to the size of the alternator, desired charge current, battery chemistry, etc. They have also published a number of helpful videos. I don't work for AM Solar.

8. Finally, although it might be a perfectly viable option for some applications, I did not suggest anyone add a second alternator. I merely mentioned, in passing, that I have dual alternators in my tow vehicle.

End.

[Hawk-ination]

Not to be the forum police but thanks for explaining your response. I’ve had the same concerns about adding the Li-BIM manager to my upgrade.

Short argument on similarities and difference between a tow vehicle and an Interstate. They do function the same, but we have integrations to our coach batteries which you do not. Not major differences, but still concerns those of us with Interstates need to think about.

I am pretty thrilled to have received my (oh...my fiancé’s...maybe...) Christmas present yesterday. Decided to go with the Battleborn batteries. Couple reasons why. First, I was debating on the Black Friday deal, so the price difference, although somewhat still a considerable amount, wasn’t as much of a consideration. I really appreciate everyone who commented on their Lion batteries. I was very close to ordering them, but the stud mount and internal mount gave me a bit of reservation, especially with the vibration they take in the back of the Interstate. It probably would have been totally fine, but just sharing my reasoning. Last point, I personally really like supporting an American made product.

They are well packaged and received them in perfect shape. Didn’t take very long either considering how much is getting shipped by mail these days.

Now for the install...wish me luck!
Can’t wait to see how long we can go without plugging in!

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

Now for the install...wish me luck!
Can’t wait to see how long we can go without plugging in!

You can't go wrong with Battle Borns. The terminals are the only complaint on my two Renogy (older style) batteries and it is a big complaint. I think BB got it right with the beefy tabs that you can bolt through and crank down as tight as you wish.


With our 2 x 100AH lithiums we can go two days easily (similar compressor fridge to your 2014) without driving or pluggin in and that includes using the microwave occassionally. Probably 3 days if we conserved battery use. That is with no solar.


However, everthing is 12v (except the microwave of course) so we don't leave our inverter on unless running it or charging. If we left our inverter on continuously, it would definitely be a bite out of our battery capacity. Haven't tried leaving the 3000W inverter on yet, but it does draw 32 watts (2.5 amps) so we'd lose 1/3 of out battery capacity (60 amps) in just a single day.

[Hawk-ination]

Good of you to share that information. Might be talked about more in the trailer section but haven’t seen a lot of people talk about their capabilities unless they have gone all in with solar, inverter, BIM, etc.

You bring up a great point in the 2.5 Amps the inverter draws. Funny, I’ve read that statistic but when you do the math, it does end up draining a third of your battery in a day as you said. Makes perfect sense but hadn’t really calculated that out or absorbed what it meant until you put it a 24 hour term. It’s amazing the power consumption we take for granted or need to be mindful of.

Haven’t made the leap into upgrading our inverter yet. It’s such a space hog and have to consider it will take up a lot of our valuable space that there is so little of. Might limp by until next spring when it is warmer to work in the back of the van.

I totally wouldn’t blame anyone for going with a different brand of battery but glad to have that piece of mind on the tabs. It’s very evident the Battle Born battery is well made. After seeing the burnt solar controller from a loose wire in an Irene Fitness video, it made me think twice about having a weak link in the system. Another deciding factor why I went with Battle Born.

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

Good of you to share that information. Might be talked about more in the trailer section but haven’t seen a lot of people talk about their capabilities unless they have gone all in with solar, inverter, BIM, etc.

You bring up a great point in the 2.5 Amps the inverter draws. Funny, I’ve read that statistic but when you do the math, it does end up draining a third of your battery in a day as you said. Makes perfect sense but hadn’t really calculated that out or absorbed what it meant until you put it a 24 hour term. It’s amazing the power consumption we take for granted or need to be mindful of.

Haven’t made the leap into upgrading our inverter yet. It’s such a space hog and have to consider it will take up a lot of our valuable space that there is so little of. Might limp by until next spring when it is warmer to work in the back of the van.

I totally wouldn’t blame anyone for going with a different brand of battery but glad to have that piece of mind on the tabs. It’s very evident the Battle Born battery is well made. After seeing the burnt solar controller from a loose wire in an Irene Fitness video, it made me think twice about having a weak link in the system. Another deciding factor why I went with Battle Born.

Two BB with conservative management worked for me for 7 days. I isolated parasitic draws with on/off switches so I only had the frig or freezer running and the occasional water pump. It meant on/off switches for the radio and inverter power. Each will drain 0.5ah.

[Hawk-ination]

Pretty impressive numbers. The parasitic draws take a toll on the battery charge quite more than anyone would think.

Has anyone rigged up heating pads with their lithium system in the Interstate yet? I jumped on the buy button and now see the Battle Born options For heating pads are $200 plus. Didn’t realize regular battery warmers would get to hot and are not recommended. Maybe I should have looked harder at the new battery that comes with the heat pad included...

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

Pretty impressive numbers. The parasitic draws take a toll on the battery charge quite more than anyone would think.

Has anyone rigged up heating pads with their lithium system in the Interstate yet? I jumped on the buy button and now see the Battle Born options For heating pads are $200 plus. Didn’t realize regular battery warmers would get to hot and are not recommended. Maybe I should have looked harder at the new battery that comes with the heat pad included...

Here is how I thought about it. My BBs were going inside. I don’t plan to use the AI during the winter but if I do: 1) if hooked up to house electrical I will run a little milk house heater. 2) if traveling I would be running the furnace. 3) heating pads would draw precious power from the batteries.