Leaking holding tank vents alert and newbie

[orlik]

We bought our 2017 Interstate GT in August of last year and this is my first post. We have enjoyed the AS when we are not returning it to the dealer for repairs. I, like many other newbies, have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and would like to thank all the contributors. I have made numerous improvements to our RV thanks to the knowledge base of this forum. I cannot imagine owning a fairly complex piece of machinery like the Interstate without a forum such as this that helps everyone. Now for the bad news. We just returned Friday from the dealer because both of the vents (one to the black tank and one to the grey tank) were leaking into the RV when it rained. I initially thought it was from the sealant around the base of the vent on top. After several water hose tests it was clear water was penetrating the RV from inside the vent pipe. Turns out this vent (Products 360) uses a funnel piece that is supposed to be installed in the vent pipe hole before putting the vent cover over the pipe. This funnel is very important. It collects water that may get into the pipe and funnels it down thru the pipe into the holding tanks. Without it water can leak into the RV. This is what happened in my case. Both vents were missing the funnel.

I found this leak by accident. I had been working with Nova Kool (fridge has never has cooled properly) and removed my fridge. The shelf under the fridge was wet. I initially thought it was condensation from the fridge (we had recently been on a trip) and just wiped it up. I had the fridge out for a few days working on it and noticed water on the shelf again. It had been raining hard and blowing and could see water leaking from the vent where the pipe penetrates the RV. Just a slow steady drip. I then thought I should check the other vent so I removed the access panel below the rear TV and sure enough it was leaking as well. According to the dealer tech the vent pipe was too long and the vent cover would not fit with the vent funnel in place. So he assumed the factory tech just tossed the funnel and put the cap on. The factory tech may have done this to other Interstates so this is the reason for the alert. Of course, this may have happened only to me but the dealer thought other vehicles were likely affected. This link will show how this vent should be installed:

https://360productsnorthamerica.com/...rv-geeks-video

It is very likely you will never know you have a leak unless you happen to be mucking around the areas I’ve mentioned on a day of heavy blowing rain. If it is raining and no wind it may not leak. Water has to get under the vent cap and into the vent pipe. Which will probably only happen if you driving in the rain or parked in a heavy rain storm. The easiest thing you can do now is remove the back panel and with a flashlight look at the floor. If water has been in there you may be able to tell. In my case I saw the puddle of water and noticed a small rust spot on the bottom of the RV floor skin. Water was also dripping down the side of the toilet/shower enclosure. If you have water there then your black tank vent will probably be leaking as well. To check the black tank vent is more difficult but you might be able to just remove the left air vent above the fridge and feel around to see if water is penetrating before removing the fridge. Obviously, rather than wait for rain you can do the hose test. However, it may take a little while before it starts to leak. If you do not have the Products 360 vent then you probably don’t have to worry about it. The video link above shows what the vent looks like.

Needless to say this is disappointing. Hopefully there is no significant hidden damage. Don’t know why I thought after we sold our sail boat I’d never have to worry about leaks again!

[InterBlog]

Wow, welcome to Air Forums! For a new poster, you hit that one right out of the park! It's really valuable information, and if it happened on one rig, it probably happened on others. Yet another workmanship issue that, if not caught early, could jeopardize the integrity of the affected vehicles.

[InterBlog]

There appears to be a database glitch - I had trouble on another thread, and now this one is repeated. Hopefully people will respond here and the mods will delete the duplicate.

[orlik]

I apologize, the double posting is my fault. Five hours after I originally posted I never saw it in the Forum thread so I figured I messed up and I recent it. Won't do that again.

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by orlik

We bought our 2017 Interstate GT in August of last year and this is my first post. We have enjoyed the AS when we are not returning it to the dealer for repairs. I, like many other newbies, have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and would like to thank all the contributors. I have made numerous improvements to our RV thanks to the knowledge base of this forum. I cannot imagine owning a fairly complex piece of machinery like the Interstate without a forum such as this that helps everyone. Now for the bad news. We just returned Friday from the dealer because both of the vents (one to the black tank and one to the grey tank) were leaking into the RV when it rained. I initially thought it was from the sealant around the base of the vent on top. After several water hose tests it was clear water was penetrating the RV from inside the vent pipe. Turns out this vent (Products 360) uses a funnel piece that is supposed to be installed in the vent pipe hole before putting the vent cover over the pipe. This funnel is very important. It collects water that may get into the pipe and funnels it down thru the pipe into the holding tanks. Without it water can leak into the RV. This is what happened in my case. Both vents were missing the funnel.

I found this leak by accident. I had been working with Nova Kool (fridge has never has cooled properly) and removed my fridge. The shelf under the fridge was wet. I initially thought it was condensation from the fridge (we had recently been on a trip) and just wiped it up. I had the fridge out for a few days working on it and noticed water on the shelf again. It had been raining hard and blowing and could see water leaking from the vent where the pipe penetrates the RV. Just a slow steady drip. I then thought I should check the other vent so I removed the access panel below the rear TV and sure enough it was leaking as well. According to the dealer tech the vent pipe was too long and the vent cover would not fit with the vent funnel in place. So he assumed the factory tech just tossed the funnel and put the cap on. The factory tech may have done this to other Interstates so this is the reason for the alert. Of course, this may have happened only to me but the dealer thought other vehicles were likely affected. This link will show how this vent should be installed:

https://360productsnorthamerica.com/...rv-geeks-video

It is very likely you will never know you have a leak unless you happen to be mucking around the areas I’ve mentioned on a day of heavy blowing rain. If it is raining and no wind it may not leak. Water has to get under the vent cap and into the vent pipe. Which will probably only happen if you driving in the rain or parked in a heavy rain storm. The easiest thing you can do now is remove the back panel and with a flashlight look at the floor. If water has been in there you may be able to tell. In my case I saw the puddle of water and noticed a small rust spot on the bottom of the RV floor skin. Water was also dripping down the side of the toilet/shower enclosure. If you have water there then your black tank vent will probably be leaking as well. To check the black tank vent is more difficult but you might be able to just remove the left air vent above the fridge and feel around to see if water is penetrating before removing the fridge. Obviously, rather than wait for rain you can do the hose test. However, it may take a little while before it starts to leak. If you do not have the Products 360 vent then you probably don’t have to worry about it. The video link above shows what the vent looks like.

Needless to say this is disappointing. Hopefully there is no significant hidden damage. Don’t know why I thought after we sold our sail boat I’d never have to worry about leaks again!

Hi orlik,

We're very sorry to learn about the leak you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customer_support@airstream.com*

Thank you.

[Alex AVI]

ORLIK - Welcome to the Forum and at same time, very sorry for the trouble you had. This is horrible to hear an entire generation of AI have this potential hazard. This is truly a hazard because there are many electricals that could short due to hidden water leaks. I hope all is fixed in your rig. Thank you for the HEADS UP WARNING. I am certainly going to check my vents now. Would like to add some tech data for others.

Lippert has made 2 gens of these units and in 2 versions
GEN1 in OEM & Aftermarket versions
GEN2 in OEM & Aftermarket versions

The video link supplied by ORLIK shows GEN1 Aftermarket. Video clip below in white & pic in black.



On my 2018, the rig is supplied with GEN2 OEM. I would assume all AI would have the OEM versions UNLESS it was a very old AI that was modified to the 360, then they would have to use the Aftermarket version. Pics below of my Gen2.



On the GEN2, it would be much easier to check if funnel is installed. All one has to do is pop out the top lid (Part B - held by 5 snap-clips). One should be able to see through the grates if the funnel is there or not.


On GEN1, I do not believe the top lid is removable. You either need to remove entire unit which means scraping off the SikaFlex and unscrewing the entire unit/base OR have a light/inspection mirror or teeny inspection cam peeking through the grates. Pretty sure the mirror/cam method should reveal funnel without complete removal. Good luck.

[emelaich]

We had the same problem on our '17 FCFB; days of rain and no leaks yet when the wind blew, drops started showing up in the bathroom ceiling along one of the riveted seams. Turned the hose on and water everywhere in the same spot.

Got up on the roof and pulled both 360 vents; on one, there was NO sealant between the pipe and the roof; on the other, gaps in the sealant between the two.

We removed the silicone caulk--yes, everything on the roof of our '17 is caulked with silicone, factory original--but this is easily removed with 3M's specialty adhesive remover. Amazing stuff!

Once the vent pipes were caulked between the ABS pipe and roof with Sikaflex, we put a strip of butyl tape on the base of each 360 vent and screwed these down with new, stainless steel screws as the galvanized ones that came with the unit were already beginning to show signs of rust. Additionally, the factory screws were torqued to the point of the bases being somewhat deformed, probably accellerating the potential for leakage. After these were in place, we put a dab of Sikaflex on each screw.

BTW--the little 'funnel' pieces inside don't seem to do much on or off the pipes as they're not sealed to it, just placed inside, so if water gets between the funnel and the pipe, it still goes down the pipe. One of the pipes was cut somewhat jagged, so the fit was less than ideal but it's just a vent... Retested with the hose and no leaks; hard rain around the first of Dec, no leaks, several windy showers since, no leaks.

I like the look of the redesigned 360 vents; perhaps we'll install a pair in a couple of years as the originals are already showing some 'checking' of the PVC after two seasons in the Texas summers.

BTW--our refit with pix is on Airstream Addicts, just search under 'sewer vent leaks'. Hope this comes in handy for what seems to be a somewhat epidemic problem.

Thanks!

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by orlik

I apologize, the double posting is my fault. Five hours after I originally posted I never saw it in the Forum thread so I figured I messed up and I recent it. Won't do that again.

Not your fault. I'm pretty sure the database was re-set to an earlier version on that day (I saw it, or something like it, happen in front of my eyes). Large databases sometimes either corrupt or get manipulated such that they roll back to an earlier point on the time continuum as a way of rectifying the error. Everything done in the intervening time gets erased. Somehow your thread was later resurrected, which suggests a deliberate process, but not everything was restored. This platform appears to be owned by a young tech whiz who lives in Dallas. Beyond that, I know very little about it, or how it works.

[Titus]

Can the lid be removed from the lid base without damage, so that one can look through the screen and see the funnel? And/or can you remove the lid base from the collar after removing the lid? Or do you have to remove the entire assembly to see if the funnel is installed? My 2013 vent cap does not look exactly like the current 360 (and far as I know it does not leak) but it may be an older style of 360.

[orlik]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

ORLIK - Welcome to the Forum and at same time, very sorry for the trouble you had. This is horrible to hear an entire generation of AI have this potential hazard. This is truly a hazard because there are many electricals that could short due to hidden water leaks. I hope all is fixed in your rig. Thank you for the HEADS UP WARNING. I am certainly going to check my vents now. Would like to add some tech data for others.

Thanks for posting the extra tech data. I'm not familiar with the different models that might be installed, but I'm sure your information will be helpful to others. The dealer installed two new vents. It was raining when we returned from the dealer and there were no leaks. So I hope all is well. I just checked our vents and it appears we have the GEN2 model you described.

[orlik]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Not your fault. I'm pretty sure the database was re-set to an earlier version on that day (I saw it, or something like it, happen in front of my eyes). Large databases sometimes either corrupt or get manipulated such that they roll back to an earlier point on the time continuum as a way of rectifying the error. Everything done in the intervening time gets erased. Somehow your thread was later resurrected, which suggests a deliberate process, but not everything was restored. This platform appears to be owned by a young tech whiz who lives in Dallas. Beyond that, I know very little about it, or how it works.

Thanks for filling me in. I also received note form moderator and was informed that because I posted with an embedded link the post had to be reviewed before making its way into the forum, which was why there was a delay. I think all is well now. The other post has been deleted.

[orlik]

Originally Posted by Titus

Can the lid be removed from the lid base without damage, so that one can look through the screen and see the funnel? And/or can you remove the lid base from the collar after removing the lid? Or do you have to remove the entire assembly to see if the funnel is installed? My 2013 vent cap does not look exactly like the current 360 (and far as I know it does not leak) but it may be an older style of 360.

Titus, Perhaps Alex can chime with a little more input but I think it would help if you posted a picture of your vent so we can see what you have. I'm not sure when AS began using the 360 Products vent.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

Can the lid be removed from the lid base without damage, so that one can look through the screen and see the funnel? And/or can you remove the lid base from the collar after removing the lid? Or do you have to remove the entire assembly to see if the funnel is installed? My 2013 vent cap does not look exactly like the current 360 (and far as I know it does not leak) but it may be an older style of 360.

TITUS - Using the diagram I provided
Part B = Lid
Part C = Lid base
Part D = Funnel
Part E = Collar (not applicable to OEM version, only in aftermarket i stalls)
Part F = Base (vent base)

If Gen1, you most likely need to remove entire assembly as it is one unit (from all indications & pics & install instructions from Lippert).

If Gen2 OEM version, all above parts appear to be pre-assembled from Lippert. Just snap Part D funnel under 360, apply supplied sealant/tape under base, install over stack pipe, screw in, SikaFlex base & screws.

If Gen2 Aftermarket version, all above parts have to be put together and sealed using sealant by installer. Either OEM or Aftermarket version couldve still been used on a new stack vent pipe. But either way, based on strength of sealant used between the parts, it may prove difficult to separate them once sealed/stuck together. So even though the parts could've been put together by installer, they may now be one unit. Only Gen2 Part B (Top Lid, not Lid Base) could be removed after everything is stuck together.

[Alex AVI]

PITA to pop off the top lid. Those 5 snap clips are stiff. I felt I was going to break the clip arms and/or slice my fingers in process. But they did not. Best way is to use your entire hand (mine are small, larger hands would be better grip) and cup entire bottom 5 clip arms. Use thumb to bend one to disengage. Then the other 4 gets easier. DO NOT USE ANY TOOLS OR RISK DAMAGE. Then use bright line to check for presence of funnel.

[wachuko]

Orlik, welcome to the forum! And thank you for creating the awareness on this... will check mine as well.

Alex, thank you for the additional level of detail on what we have in the 2018's

[djz]

I have a 2020 Globetrotter 27FB. On one of my trips to the Outer Banks last year we had several days of rain with heavy winds. I was getting a leak above the toilet coming down from the ceiling seams. I would get about 1 cup of water about every 6 hours when it rained but only when it was windy. After reading the above I decided also to check the vent funnels. I have the Lippert 360 Siphon on both the black and grey vent tanks. I had to remove the screen cap five clips as described in another thread and look down into the vent screen with a flashlight. I was able to see that the funnel was not attached to the screen lid. It is clearly stated in step 5 in the Lippert instruction manual that the funnel needs to be glued to the screen cap. If it was glued correctly to the screen lid then all water that enters the vent screen gets caught in the funnel and goes directly down into vent pipe. A very simple fool proof design if installed properly. To get to the funnel I had to remove the Sikaflex around the vent and its screws and remove the entire vent assembly. What I found was very disturbing. The funnel was sitting on top of the vent pipe about two inches below the screen. Since the pipe was cut short the funnel could not reach the top of the vent screen. So what was happening in a windy rain, water would come through the screen and without the funnel being attached it would blow past the sides of the funnel and be trapped in between the vent pipe and the sponge gasket around the vent pipe. There was also no silkaflex on top of the sponge gasket so water could easily penetrate. There would be no need for silkaflex on the sponge gasket if the funnel was glued to the top. Water would never find a way to that gasket. So when it rainy windy conditions water would find its way over the funnel and past the sponge gasket and into the frame of the trailer.

In summary, there were 2 major problems. First and very important as mentioned the funnel needed to be glued to the screen cap so all water must go into the funnel and cant go around it. The second problem was that once I glued the funnel to the cap I found the tail piece of the funnel was not long enough to fit into the vent pipe. Likely this was because the Airstream installer cut the vent pipe too short. Fortunately, a short piece of 1 inch schedule 40 PVC fit inside of the funnel to extend the tail piece of the funnel and make up the gap. I glued the PVC and it fit perfect into the funnel and the other end of the PVC was cut long enough to fit directly into the vent pipe. This made sure that all rainwater had to go into the screen of the vent pipe and down the vent pipe to solve the problem. Along the way I had to carefully remove ALL the silkaflex with a sharp razor blade and replace with new silkaflex. I can now sleep at night knowing I found the cause of this leak. I hope this helps others to avoid any near disasters. Note that I camped several times in the rain and never had a leak until we had windy conditions. This may be the same for others so I encourage you to check.

This is a very serious problem because I am sure I had lots of water running down inside the Airstream. My vinyl floors now have stretched from front to back and have a ripple which may have been caused from moisture.

[djz]

Hi

I forgot to include the picture that showed the original placement of the funnel on the vent pipe when I took off the cover. Note it is sitting on top of the vent pipe that was cut short and is about two inches below the screen. When water came down past the screen and missing going into the funnel it was trapped and eventually seeped past the rubber sponge gasket and into the trailer.

[chris_kelly]

Hi - I posted this to another thread but thought I’d cross post over here too.

Welcome your thoughts on what vent is better than the lippert ones we have now.

Water leaking from one AC ducted air vent
https://www.airforums.com/forums/sho....php?p=2677344