Interstate Battery issues

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by TheHoff

original Atkins solar display and controller. (BTW-the solar controller is behind the coach fuse box if you ever want to upgrade it).

Sounds like a very good and economical solution.

FWIW, I think you will greatly improve the performance of your solar panels if you upgrade your solar charge controller. The Atkinson won't turn on until your house batteries are below 12.7v. Depending on who you believe, that's already 20-30% depleted!!! I can't tell you the number of times I've gone out to my coach (parked on a storage lot) and found the house batteries at 12.7v, the chassis at 12.5v, and the solar is OFF on a nice sunny day!!! Enough of that. I just bought a MPPT charge controller and will install it when I get a bit of "free" time (i.e. sneak away without the taskmaster noticing.....). With the new controller, it will always be "on" as long as the sun is shining and will float my batteries high enough that the BIM will stay closed so both the house and chassis batteries will be maintained by the solar. If you believe the 20-30% number above, that says just by changing solar charge controllers I should get 20-30% more energy from my batteries.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by TheHoff

Then I placed 2 100watt Suaok semi flexible 12 volt solar panels on the roof ($169 each). Using MC4 connectors and MC4 Y connectors and 8 gage wire, I connected the original solar panel and the two new panels in parallel using the original roof wiring and original Atkins solar display and controller.
.
.
I have up to 9 amps of solar charging during the day and it isn't even summer yet.

I was thinking about this a bit more and referring back to the schematics in the Interstate owner's manual and I think you may have a problem. According to the schematics, there's a 10A fuse between the solar charge controller output and the battery bus bar (hot side). Each of your solar panels can generate between 5.5 - 6.0A, and you've wired them in parallel (so you're adding current from 3 panels). You have the potential to generate over 15A in the summer when the sun is high and blow that fuse......

[Teamaron]

Outside of the solar issues.

So if replacing batteries should one go with 6v in series or stay 12v parallel as is?

And which batteries are recommended?

[BurntAsphalt]

Originally Posted by Teamaron

Outside of the solar issues.

So if replacing batteries should one go with 6v in series or stay 12v parallel as is?

And which batteries are recommended?

I wanted to do the two 6V golf cart batteries in series but the battery box in our 2011 was too small to accommodate those. Be sure to check the dimensions of the battery box and batteries before making that decision.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Teamaron

Outside of the solar issues.

So if replacing batteries should one go with 6v in series or stay 12v parallel as is?

And which batteries are recommended?

Well, you've opened up one of the "holy debates" now. Might as well have asked what type of oil to use......

The consensus seems to be you get better bang for your buck with 2 6v batteries in series. Reasons listed are the 6v "golf cart" batteries are typically all "true deep cycle" batteries with very thick plates and last a long time, they tend to run longer before needing to be recharged, and they tend to cost about half what the 12v "deep cycle" batteries cost. Folks seem to swear by the Trojan brand at Sam's Club. The main trouble RV'ers have with them is fitting them as they tend to be taller than 12v'ers.

The ONLY downside I've seen listed with going the 6v route is if one of them happens to go bad, you're screwed, but if one of the 12v batts goes bad, you can just disconnect it and run on the remaining one. Also, if the chassis batt is the one that kicks the bucket, with 2 12v'ers running the house, you can grab one and use it for the chassis until you get a replacement.

You roll the dice and take your chances......

[lewster]

Do you know how many times I have heard this 'conventional wisdom' about one 6VDC golf cart battery going bad and being left in the lurch with an unusable power source??? ....................about as many times as I hear from 'old timers' that batteries should never be left on concrete.... WTF?????

Let me give you my professional experience over the last 17 years in the RV service business. I HAVE NEVER HAD TO REPLACE A SINGLE 6VDC LIFELINE AGM GOLF CART BATTERY THAT HAS GONE BAD IN A SERIES OR SERIES/PARALLEL ARRANGEMENT ..........and I have installed over 100 banks of Lifeline golf cart batteries during that time period. There are many reasons for this but the primary is the way that Lifeline AGMs are constructed.......being pressure packed into the battery case so that the plates are completely secure and present almost no opportunity for shorting as found in liquid cells.

If you intend to use ANY type of 6VDC batteries in an Interstate and retain the stock battery positioning, then AGMs are mandatory. In the battery world, you definitely get what you pay for and although Lifelines are more expensive than what ever garbage Wal*Mart or Interstate sells (I know that will not sit well with some, but almost every battery that I replace is a low quality 'cheapie') they typically last well past 5 years (their warranty period) and some as long as 10+ years when properly charged and used.

Unlike an 'oil thread' the above is not opinion, but based on 17 years of experiential use and data.

Use what you like, but don't rely on rumor and innuendo to come to your purchase decision!

And BTW, I don't sell Lifeline batteries unless they are being used in one of my installations, so this is NOT a commercial plug!!!

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

Well, you've opened up one of the "holy debates" now. Might as well have asked what type of oil to use......

The consensus seems to be you get better bang for your buck with 2 6v batteries in series. Reasons listed are the 6v "golf cart" batteries are typically all "true deep cycle" batteries with very thick plates and last a long time, they tend to run longer before needing to be recharged, and they tend to cost about half what the 12v "deep cycle" batteries cost. Folks seem to swear by the Trojan brand at Sam's Club. The main trouble RV'ers have with them is fitting them as they tend to be taller than 12v'ers.

The ONLY downside I've seen listed with going the 6v route is if one of them happens to go bad, you're screwed, but if one of the 12v batts goes bad, you can just disconnect it and run on the remaining one. Also, if the chassis batt is the one that kicks the bucket, with 2 12v'ers running the house, you can grab one and use it for the chassis until you get a replacement.

You roll the dice and take your chances......

[TheHoff]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

Sounds like a very good and economical solution.

FWIW, I think you will greatly improve the performance of your solar panels if you upgrade your solar charge controller. The Atkinson won't turn on until your house batteries are below 12.7v. Depending on who you believe, that's already 20-30% depleted!!! I can't tell you the number of times I've gone out to my coach (parked on a storage lot) and found the house batteries at 12.7v, the chassis at 12.5v, and the solar is OFF on a nice sunny day!!! Enough of that. I just bought a MPPT charge controller and will install it when I get a bit of "free" time (i.e. sneak away without the taskmaster noticing.....). With the new controller, it will always be "on" as long as the sun is shining and will float my batteries high enough that the BIM will stay closed so both the house and chassis batteries will be maintained by the solar. If you believe the 20-30% number above, that says just by changing solar charge controllers I should get 20-30% more energy from my batteries.

I am aware of this upgrade . After 4 hours of looking everywhere and speaking trio two dealers, I never could find the Atkins solar controller, so I returned the MPPT charge controller I had purchased. After several more emails and calls, I did get a service rep at Airstream to respond to my question after another week, he emailed me and said the Ccontroller was mounted behind the Curcuit breaker box which have to be removed to to get to the controller. Since my new system was up and running to my satisfaction, I put that on the back burner for a while. I do like the fact that the Atkins display is in the display area and I can see it easily. I couldn't figure where I wanted to mount the MPPT unit so I could see it.

[TheHoff]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

I was thinking about this a bit more and referring back to the schematics in the Interstate owner's manual and I think you may have a problem. According to the schematics, there's a 10A fuse between the solar charge controller output and the battery bus bar (hot side). Each of your solar panels can generate between 5.5 - 6.0A, and you've wired them in parallel (so you're adding current from 3 panels). You have the potential to generate over 15A in the summer when the sun is high and blow that fuse......

Well thank you for noticing that��. what would you suggest? put a larger fuse it the 10 amp position? I am aware I could generate as much as 15 amps with all 3 panels in full sun, particularly at altitude.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by lewster

Do you know how many times I have heard this 'conventional wisdom' about one 6VDC golf cart battery going bad and being left in the lurch with an unusable power source??? ....................about as many times as I hear from 'old timers' that batteries should never be left on concrete.... WTF?????

I'm just the messenger Lew. That was the only "negative" I read in many posts on the whole "12v vs. 6v" discussion. I have zero experience with 6v batteries, so it's good to know they never fail......

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by TheHoff

Well thank you for noticing that��. what would you suggest? put a larger fuse it the 10 amp position? I am aware I could generate as much as 15 amps with all 3 panels in full sun, particularly at altitude.

Hopefully Lew will chime in on this because he's the resident expert on Interstates and solar, but given Airstream used 12GA wire to/from the Atkinson, I'd replace the 10A fuse with a 20A and be done. According to the ABYC (which I know Lew references for his work), 12GA is suitable up to 25A for short wire lengths like what we're talking about (< 6ft), so you should be fine.

[Mollysdad]

Before everyone gets out the credit card, does AS say this is normal for the batteries to be dead in two weeks? (Whenever a service rep says, "It's in spec" tells me they don't care or have a clue) My car sits in the driveway for two weeks and the batteries aren't dead and it's not plugged in.
I understand there are constant drains like the propane detector and the CO detector which cannot be legally switched off, but two weeks?
I'd be pulling off the +terminal off the battery when I parked it before I redesigned the solution.

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by lewster

Do you know how many times I have heard this 'conventional wisdom' about one 6VDC golf cart battery going bad and being left in the lurch with an unusable power source??? ....................about as many times as I hear from 'old timers' that batteries should never be left on concrete.... WTF?????

Let me give you my professional experience over the last 17 years in the RV service business. I HAVE NEVER HAD TO REPLACE A SINGLE 6VDC LIFELINE AGM GOLF CART BATTERY THAT HAS GONE BAD IN A SERIES OR SERIES/PARALLEL ARRANGEMENT ..........and I have installed over 100 banks of Lifeline golf cart batteries during that time period. There are many reasons for this but the primary is the way that Lifeline AGMs are constructed.......being pressure packed into the battery case so that the plates are completely secure and present almost no opportunity for shorting as found in liquid cells.

If you intend to use ANY type of 6VDC batteries in an Interstate and retain the stock battery positioning, then AGMs are mandatory. In the battery world, you definitely get what you pay for and although Lifelines are more expensive than what ever garbage Wal*Mart or Interstate sells (I know that will not sit well with some, but almost every battery that I replace is a low quality 'cheapie') they typically last well past 5 years (their warranty period) and some as long as 10+ years when properly charged and used.

Unlike an 'oil thread' the above is not opinion, but based on 17 years of experiential use and data.

Use what you like, but don't rely on rumor and innuendo to come to your purchase decision!

And BTW, I don't sell Lifeline batteries unless they are being used in one of my installations, so this is NOT a commercial plug!!!

And since Lew forgot to answer one of the previous questions, if you're upgrading to larger AGM batteries, you really don't need the constraints of the battery box that's located under the curbside sofa in previous models. The box can be removed, and the vent closed off.
Lew does an excellent job of securing the batteries in place without the box.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Before everyone gets out the credit card, does AS say this is normal for the batteries to be dead in two weeks? (Whenever a service rep says, "It's in spec" tells me they don't care or have a clue) My car sits in the driveway for two weeks and the batteries aren't dead and it's not plugged in.
I understand there are constant drains like the propane detector and the CO detector which cannot be legally switched off, but two weeks?
I'd be pulling off the +terminal off the battery when I parked it before I redesigned the solution.

The owner's manual says to disconnect the batteries if storing the coach for "long periods" and top them up every 30 days via a charger, so your solution is right in line with their recommendation.

I think folks that are having issues are not doing that (myself included), and trying to figure out ways around it. Many are also trying to figure out how to configure their coaches for better boondockability (<- new word! ).

One of the issues I struggle with is Airstream is THIS close >< to a working solution and just a small bit of tweaking will finish the job, allowing me to reliably maintain ALL batteries (house and chassis) for long periods with just the solar or plugged into shore power. My intent is to make the small changes needed to close that gap (less than $200 all in). Maybe future Airstreams will do that for us.....time will tell.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

And since Lew forgot to answer one of the previous questions, if you're upgrading to larger AGM batteries, you really don't need the constraints of the battery box that's located under the curbside sofa in previous models. The box can be removed, and the vent closed off.
Lew does an excellent job of securing the batteries in place without the box.

On the '17's, the batteries are in sort of a hanger arrangement under the coach (driver's side, by the genny exhaust, no box around them, just open to the elements). I'm not sure how much adjustment there is in those brackets, so it may be super easy to put some larger ones in, or it may be a total nightmare.

[Teamaron]

I think the first thing I'll do is have the 12v lifelines tested as they are less than 3 years old and probably have some amount of prorate left in them.

I do leave the coach plugged in to shore power all the time.

What's the best way to 'test'? Or just take to authorized lifeline dealer?

Definitely want to go with the best replacement and not skimp.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Before everyone gets out the credit card, does AS say this is normal for the batteries to be dead in two weeks? (Whenever a service rep says, "It's in spec" tells me they don't care or have a clue) My car sits in the driveway for two weeks and the batteries aren't dead and it's not plugged in.

I understand there are constant drains like the propane detector and the CO detector which cannot be legally switched off, but two weeks?

I'd be pulling off the +terminal off the battery when I parked it before I redesigned the solution.

The batteries will be dead in a lot less than two weeks if it doesn't get good sunshine on the solar panel. The biggest constant drain is the Magnum Inverter/Charger, it is a constant 0.4 amps. Total drain is a constant 0.5 amps. That is a lot more than the car in your driveway.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

I'm just the messenger Lew. That was the only "negative" I read in many posts on the whole "12v vs. 6v" discussion. I have zero experience with 6v batteries, so it's good to know they never fail......

No worries!!!! It was not meant to be personal........

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Teamaron

I think the first thing I'll do is have the 12v lifelines tested as they are less than 3 years old and probably have some amount of prorate left in them.

I do leave the coach plugged in to shore power all the time.

What's the best way to 'test'? Or just take to authorized lifeline dealer?

Definitely want to go with the best replacement and not skimp.

Most auto supply stores (Autozone, NAPA, Pepboys, etc) have load testers so just take them to your local store and have them test them for you. They likely won't have a replacement, but at least you'll know how much life they have left. If you happen to live near a marine supply store, they might have a load tester AND they might have a decent selection of replacements, so a quick phone call might save you some driving.....

[TheHoff]

Again, thanks for your thoughts. I pulled the circuit breaker panel and indeed did finally find the Atkins solar control unit. For future reference, it is located behind the left lower quadrant of the removable panel the circuit breaker box is mounted on, and there is plenty of room to install a new MPPT controller unit on that panel.
There were no fuses either on the positive or negative side of the controller unit as the wires went to their respective terminal bus. One good thing was that I found a very loose wire on the Positive bus bar that I tightened, not related to the issue at hand.
If anyone has any other info, let me know. So far the instillation is working flawlessly. We will see what happens when I get above 10 amps of solar. The Atkins unit is rated for 25 apms, well above my potential solar output of about 20 amps, which realistically not achievable.
I'm just guessing here, but I think since Airstream offers a solar upgrade option , the entire system is already designed for for additional panels of 200 watts output, and, like I did, you just add the panels and hook them up on the roof. I have no way of verifying that except that is working as if that were the case. My Interstate is a 2016 model.

[Zil]

Im with Lew. There is no reason for a six volt battery to fail on it's own. They are heavier built than any 12 volt I have come across. And I use four, series/parallel. But, I do like Duracell from East Penn, available at Batteries plus and also Sam's Club.