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riverdweller · 12-31-2018, 02:22 PM

After much toiling over having a tow vehicle or not, I’m thinking about a fiat pop500 for a tow vehicle. Does anyone have input for me regarding towing a vehicle and what is your experience and what do you suggest for a vehicle? Which towing system do you prefer and why? How has you mileage, vehicle performance been affected. Would you do it again? I’m open to all ideas. Thanks Art

Pahaska · 12-31-2018, 02:43 PM

I tow a 2015 smart ForTwo. Hardly know it is back there. Costs 1 or 2 mpg, depending on terrain, more loss when hilly. The smart was a Car2Go here in Austin. A local dealer bought out the lot when Car2Go upgraded years. Mine had 15,000 miles and cost me $5000, tax and license included.

Later years of smart require a RoadMaster hitch. I have the Blue Ox hitch and prefer it to Roadmaster.

My tow bar has a surge brake. I don't think it is needed. The Ai stops the smart just fine.

The smart is a ball to drive. Like a big go-cart. I use mine more than my Genesis. I have towed the smart to Jackson Center and to Big Bend and climbed a mile-high to the Basin at Big Bend.

riverdweller · 12-31-2018, 05:32 PM

Thank you, I considered smart cars, I think they weigh about the same as the pop 500. Does your car use diesel or gas and is it battery assisted?

Pahaska · 01-01-2019, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverdweller

Thank you, I considered smart cars, I think they weigh about the same as the pop 500. Does your car use diesel or gas and is it battery assisted?

Mine is gas. The diesels are mostly in Europe. The electric version can not be towed.

I get 41 miles/gallon. Unfortunately, it is tuned for Europe where their regular is like our 93 octane. It doesn't complain with lower octane gas, though, it adjusts and loses some performance.

Hi Yo AG · 01-01-2019, 09:25 AM

The Pop is an excellent choice. We tow the Fiat Abarth behind our 2016 GT and love it. No noticeable change in gas mileage and we get to store plenty of stuff in it. And now for the best part, the Abarth is an awesome vehicle to drive, and a head turner where ever you go. Fitted it out with the blue ox hitch and added clear bra protection to keep the front end pristine.

riverdweller · 01-01-2019, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi Yo AG

The Pop is an excellent choice. We tow the Fiat Abarth behind our 2016 GT and love it. No noticeable change in gas mileage and we get to store plenty of stuff in it. And now for the best part, the Abarth is an awesome vehicle to drive, and a head turner where ever you go. Fitted it out with the blue ox hitch and added clear bra protection to keep the front end pristine.

Great, do you have an auxiliary brake system fitted to the fiat? Did you have the blue ox installed, or do it yourself?

riverdweller · 01-01-2019, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Mine is gas. The diesels are mostly in Europe. The electric version can not be towed.

I get 41 miles/gallon. Unfortunately, it is tuned for Europe where their regular is like our 93 octane. It doesn't complain with lower octane gas, though, it adjusts and loses some performance.

Thank you.

Hi Yo AG · 01-01-2019, 11:40 AM

Auxiliary brake system installed. Installation by Stolfus RV in West Chester PA. They did a great job. Could not have self installed as space is tight and it took the pros a day and a half to complete.

riverdweller · 01-01-2019, 06:56 PM

Do you mind telling me the approximate cost for the braking and towing retro?

bugsbunny · 01-01-2019, 08:57 PM

There was a fellow on here a few years ago that towed an Abarth. He has since moved on but had some good info. His handle was jerhofer. Here is a path to some of the info.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...re-133686.html

Bugs

Alex AVI · 01-01-2019, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Mine is gas. The diesels are mostly in Europe. The electric version can not be towed.

JOHN - Regarding towing electric - are all electrics (Smart or others) non-towable? I do not know the reason why it is not towable and really don't care why. Just wanted a go/no-go answer, since I too am looking at a Smart car from a friend who may be selling his soon. At least I will know what other options to weed out. Of course I prefer to tow a Tesla P100D (but this guy has a habit of daydreaming coz it's free)

riverdweller · 01-02-2019, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsbunny

There was a fellow on here a few years ago that towed an Abarth. He has since moved on but had some good info. His handle was jerhofer. Here is a path to some of the info.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...re-133686.html

Bugs

Thank you very much !

Pahaska · 01-02-2019, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

JOHN - Regarding towing electric - are all electrics (Smart or others) non-towable?

The reason the electric smart is non-towable is that there is no neutral available. Towing would spin the motor. I think this applies to all electrics.

Alex AVI · 01-02-2019, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

The reason the electric smart is non-towable is that there is no neutral available. Towing would spin the motor. I think this applies to all electrics.

JOHN - Thanks for info. I learn something new in this forum everyday.

Hi Yo AG · 01-02-2019, 10:56 AM

I believe the cost, all in with labor, tow bar brake,etc. was just north of $3k. Well worth it as you can see by the photos that bugs bunny directed you to.

Pahaska · 01-02-2019, 01:31 PM

I use a surge brake lever in the towbar, cabled to my brake pedal. Works well. The brake parts were included with my tow bar.

I have been asked several times what the cable protruding from the front of the smart is for. I tell them it is what I tow the car with. Surprisingly, a lot of people believe that the less than 1/8" stranded cable does just that.

Alex AVI · 01-02-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

I tell them it is what I tow the car with. Surprisingly, a lot of people believe that the less than 1/8" stranded cable does just that.

JOHN - I would wrap the tow bar with old coiled up blanket and tell them its your tow cable

Protagonist · 01-02-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverdweller

After much toiling over having a tow vehicle or not, I’m thinking about a fiat pop500 for a tow vehicle. Does anyone have input for me regarding towing a vehicle and what is your experience and what do you suggest for a vehicle? Which towing system do you prefer and why? How has you mileage, vehicle performance been affected. Would you do it again? I’m open to all ideas. Thanks Art

I'm not the first to tow a toad behind my Interstate, but I was one of the first, having bought my toad in December 2012. Since then I've logged almost 40,000 miles towing a Honda Fit behind my Interstate.

I originally decided to go the toad route because I live in the New Orleans metro area, where hurricane evacuations are a real possibility. Before I bought my toad, my daily driver was a non-towable Dodge Durango SUV. In the event of a hurricane evacuation, I would have had to leave one vehicle behind to be eaten by the storm in order to bug out with the other. Being a single guy with no kids, I'm the only driver in my household, and having a toad means being able to evacuate both vehicles without needing a second driver. Then, having bought a toad for that reason, it didn't make much sense to leave the toad at home the rest of the time.

Storage space in an Interstate leaves a lot to be desired, so I end up using my toad as a de facto trailer while on the road, using it to carry all of the outdoor stuff for my campsite— patio mats, lawn chairs, Cobb grill, shore power cord, fresh water hose, etc. so they don't take up my limited living space. Which is why I got a Honda Fit; it's a subcompact hatchback with up to 64 cubic feet of storage— but 2013 was the last model year that was towable 4-down, so I can't recommend the Fit today. When I get to the campsite, I unpack the Honda and set up, then the Honda is ready to use as a daily driver for day trips from the campsite until I hit the road again.

Fuel economy in my Interstate takes about a 1mpg hit when towing my Honda, which has a GVWR of 3500 pounds and a curb weight of 2700 pounds. Most of the time, it tows like it's not even there. I've towed in New Mexico in July and August without overheating, even on days spent gaining altitude the whole way to the Continental Divide.

I can recommend both Roadmaster and Blue Ox towing setups; the choice boils down to which one is easier to install on the toad. In the case of the Honda Fit, the choice was Roadmaster. The front bumper had to be replaced with one that the towbar could fasten to— most vehicle bumpers (except Jeep Wranglers) are not designed to resist pulling, only to resist pushing/impacts. And the Roadmaster replacement bumper mounted without drilling new holes in the frame, but Blue Ox would have required drilling. Plus the Roadmaster towbar baseplates are exactly in front of the bumper on a Honda Fit, so that they are the same height as the hitch receiver on my Interstate. The Blue Ox baseplates mount under the front bumper, and I would have needed to use a 2" drop hitch to keep the towbar level as it should be— and considering how easy it is to scrape the Interstate's rear bumper when the road dips, having a drop hitch to further reduce rear ground clearance wouldn't have been very desirable.

Since I knew I was going to be towing my Honda a lot, I opted for a permanently-installed supplemental brake system, the Roadmaster Invisibrake. It mounts under the driver's seat, and taps into the car's own power brake system using a built-in vacuum pump and a check valve. It is activated automatically by the Interstate's brake lights, so no brake controller is needed.

For the same reason, I tapped into the car's own brake lights for the supplemental brake lights/turn signals/taillights, using blocking diodes. So no separate towing lights are needed. The Interstate's 7-pin connector provides power to run the supplemental brakes and lights as well as keep the car battery charged so that the power brake system works— though admittedly in an area where there's a lot of stop-and-go traffic when you need to use the brakes frequently, it's still possible to deplete the car battery.

On one occasion the Roadmaster brakes failed (squirrels had chewed the wiring). However, the Interstate's brakes were up to the task of stopping the van/toad combination with only a modest increase in stopping distance. And no, that does not mean you can skip installing supplemental brakes. Your state's laws concerning trailer brakes also apply to toad brakes, and my Honda, at 3500 pounds GVWR, is over Louisiana's 3000-pound-and-over trailer brake requirement.

Boxster1971 · 01-02-2019, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

The reason the electric smart is non-towable is that there is no neutral available. Towing would spin the motor. I think this applies to all electrics.

John has it right. As fas as I know all current electric vehicles from manufacturers have a gear set that is always connected to the electric motor. Neutral is just a condition where no power is sent to the motor. I just bought a new 2019 Chevy Bolt EV for my city car. Just love it! It has safety features that make sure the vehicle is in PARK when you turn it OFF or when you open the driver's door when vehicle is ON.

Alex AVI · 01-02-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

John has it right. As fas as I know all current electric vehicles from manufacturers have a gear set that is always connected to the electric motor. Neutral is just a condition where no power is sent to the motor. I just bought a new 2019 Chevy Bolt EV for my city car. Just love it! It has safety features that make sure the vehicle is in PARK when you turn it OFF or when you open the driver's door when vehicle is ON.

MIKE - Congrats on new Bolt. I can't wait to buy my own personal 1st EV but not until it has a 400 mile range. But if the family need arises for a mostly city car (i.e. wife's minivan ends up needing her personal replacement) I too would seriously jump into an EV, especially if I find very low mileage one. Being an electronics engineer by training vs. mechanical engineer, an EV excites me more than internal combustion cars.