How cold is too cold for Atlas plumbing?

[Starliner]

At what point would I need to worry about the pipes freezing and thus bursting?

Thank you, I'm new to all this?

[Hannibal01]

Originally Posted by Starliner

At what point would I need to worry about the pipes freezing and thus bursting?

Thank you, I'm new to all this?

When the temperature of the water in your tanks and plumbing system reaches 32 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm not familiar with the Atlas but AS models are generally fully enclosed. That means that when the furnace is operating heat is distributed throughout the vehicle below and above floor level. Your tanks, pipes, and plumbing system in general are therefore heated and will not freeze as long as you maintain the temperature in your RV above 32 degrees....

[Starliner]

Originally Posted by Hannibal01

When the temperature of the water in your tanks and plumbing system reaches 32 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm not familiar with the Atlas but AS models are generally fully enclosed. That means that when the furnace is operating heat is distributed throughout the vehicle below and above floor level. Your tanks, pipes, and plumbing system in general are therefore heated and will not freeze as long as you maintain the temperature in your RV above 32 degrees....

I know what temperature water freezes but I'm assuming that a 26 gal. fresh water tank takes some time to chill down. If the weather report says that the overnight temperature will 30 degrees Fahrenheit dose that mean I have to keep the furnace running?

Thank you.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by Starliner

... I'm assuming that a 26 gal. fresh water tank takes some time to chill down. If the weather report says that the overnight temperature will 30 degrees Fahrenheit dose that mean I have to keep the furnace running?

Thank you.

I know you want a set number but I think that is unrealistic. There are rules of thumb but heuristics can land you on the wrong side of freeze damage. In my Tradewind, which is obviously different than your situation, a few degrees below freezing doesn't worry me much provided I have air flow to everything and my waste tanks are empty.


That said, I can give you a bit more information. First, the tank and its larger volume is not the issue for concern. The issue of concern is the most vulnerable link in the chain. So look at your system and see what area(s) is most exposed to cold and try to figure out how much internal heating is needed to offset that cold. Typically, this will be a patch of tubing, maybe around a valve. There may be things you can do to mitigate this exposure such as open cabinets. Or you may be able to install valves that allow you to have water in areas that are better protected while isolating the fixtures you cannot protect. On the other hand, the plumbing on your rig may give you exposures that you cant control for. Either way its better to know before hand. In the end, the problem is idiosyncratic to your rig.

As a side note, it is important to understand that the expansion damage comes from the state transition from liquid to solid and back. Once you pass through that it really doesn't matter how much colder the thing gets. For this reason, repeated cycles through the transition are more damaging than just a really hard freeze. That is counter intuitive and many people don't realize this is the case. Best of luck.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Starliner

I know what temperature water freezes but I'm assuming that a 26 gal. fresh water tank takes some time to chill down. If the weather report says that the overnight temperature will 30 degrees Fahrenheit dose that mean I have to keep the furnace running?

Thank you.

Don’t over analyze it, err on the side of caution.

There are many, many threads here on freezing temps, how cold is too cold, should you take a chance or not, etc.

Perhaps look at some of those, and be sure to read the relevant section in the materials that came with your Atlas.

It’s the small bits carrying water that are at most risk from freezing/cracking/bursting, as others have said.

If you don’t want to completely winterize, open the cabinets and run heat in there.

Maggie

[Hannibal01]

[QUOTE=Starliner;2553996]I know what temperature water freezes but I'm assuming that a 26 gal. fresh water tank takes some time to chill down. If the weather report says that the overnight temperature will 30 degrees Fahrenheit dose that mean I have to keep the furnace running?

Thank you. [/QUOTE.
Here are the three precautionary measures which you can take or you will risk having the water in your tank(s) and plumbing system freeze. Keep the furnace operational and maintain the unit's temperature above 32 degrees. Store your Atlas in a heated garage or storage unit. And of course remove the water from your plumbing system, and tanks. It's rather simple. Decide which of the three options is best for you, and implement it or them. If not, you risk damage to your AS. ...

[mike2016]

the water tanks on the Atlas / Interstate are not enclosed. in sub zero winter during camping / trips they must be warmed by the tank heaters. and the inside of the coach must be warmed by the heater as well.

we once camped in -20F with windchill overnight, we had the tank heater on, but didn't turn the furnace on while we sleep. we woke up to find out the water heater freeze protection valve kicked in, we lost fresh water until temp gets back to normal. it was just spitting out of the water heater drain valve when we turn on any faucet.

[Rocinante]

Your camper, your call, but don’t forget about dump valves, the macerator, the macerator hose, the outside shower faucet, etc. I don’t know whether water lines are exposed in an Atlas, but I’m confident that plenty of other water-related things are exposed. If it’s just a quick overnight adventure close to or just below freezing with daytime temps in the 50’s F, I wouldn’t get too worried beyond the basic precautions noted here, but if it’s much colder than that, I’d probably winterize and use my camper like a tin tent, relying on campground bathrooms for necessities. It’s an expensive camper, and repairing freeze damage would add significantly to the cost and the inconvenience. Again, your call and your money, so do what you like.

[Zach05855]

The tanks and water lines on the Atlas are exposed. All the waste lines and valves are also exposed.

Take a look under your atlas and there are plenty of water lines that will freeze.

Any temps below 32f...you are asking for trouble.

[Hannibal01]

Originally Posted by Zach05855

The tanks and water lines on the Atlas are exposed. All the waste lines and valves are also exposed.

Take a look under your atlas and there are plenty of water lines that will freeze.

Any temps below 32f...you are asking for trouble.

Let me respond to your comments, and provide everyone with the same technical information that was provided to me by the Jackson Center technical staff several minutes ago. The Atlas Touring Coaches are enclosed. The plumbing and pipes above and below floor level are heated by the propane furnace. The tanks have an independent heating system consisting of "heat pads" which are part of the 12v system. The Atlas is distinctly different in that respect to AS travel trailers. If the temperature in an Atlas falls below 32 degrees Fahrenheit the pipes/plumbing system will freeze regardless of whether or not the tank heat pads are functioning and operational. Heat pads, or no heat pads, his Atlas Touring Coach must maintain an ambient temperature above and below floor level above 32 degrees by whichever of the three recommendations provided, or risk damage to his vehicle....

[LilPeanut]

JC can say what they want but I am 100% certain the underside, lines and tanks are NOT enclosed. They are exposed to outside temps. When you are stopped and camping, it is more likely you can keep things warm. The tank heating pads only keep the tank at its current temp, they will not heat up the tanks.

The real problem is while traveling. You have constant wind that sweeps away any heat being emitted by the rest of the underside of the rig and things are more likely to freeze.

Winterize. If not, put some cheap vodka in the water tank to lower the freeze point. Then flush the toilet with antifreeze. Shower elsewhere or pump out after every shower and pour antifreeze down the shower drain and pump that through the macerator.

Run the furnace while traveling (use the generator). Travel south. Keeping the slide in also helps conserve heat inside if it gets real cold. Do not run low on propane or diesel. That would be bad.

[Zach05855]

Originally Posted by Hannibal01

Let me respond to your comments, and provide everyone with the same technical information that was provided to me by the Jackson Center technical staff several minutes ago. The Atlas Touring Coaches are enclosed. The plumbing and pipes above and below floor level are heated by the propane furnace. The tanks have an independent heating system consisting of "heat pads" which are part of the 12v system. The Atlas is distinctly different in that respect to AS travel trailers. If the temperature in an Atlas falls below 32 degrees Fahrenheit the pipes/plumbing system will freeze regardless of whether or not the tank heat pads are functioning and operational. Heat pads, or no heat pads, his Atlas Touring Coach must maintain an ambient temperature above and below floor level above 32 degrees by whichever of the three recommendations provided, or risk damage to his vehicle....

So this just goes to show that the folks at JC are clueless.


I own an ATLAS, and have spent hours under my Atlas and I can 100% say that the tanks and lines are exposed. They will freeze and the minimal heating pads may give you a few degrees leeway but the lines are not heated .

[Starliner]

Thank you to everyone who replied. I appreciate all of you. I've decided to play it safe. Although this will be a single night at Yosemite with temps just below freezing I'm going to have my Atlas winterized. I don't want to risk damage. This isn't going to be any inconvenience since I'll be staying at the Ahwahnee Hotel and I've been assured they have indoor plumbing.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by Starliner

Thank you to everyone who replied. I appreciate all of you. I've decided to play it safe. Although this will be a single night at Yosemite with temps just below freezing I'm going to have my Atlas winterized. I don't want to risk damage. This isn't going to be any inconvenience since I'll be staying at the Ahwahnee Hotel and I've been assured they have indoor plumbing.

The Ahwahnee Hotel is beautiful. We've not stayed there, but we've certainly eaten in their restaurant. (We have a goal of eating in the restaurant of whatever historic hotel is in whatever national parks we happen to be visiting on a given trip. It's a fun project, haha!) You will, we are sure, thoroughly enjoy the experience, and it's wonderful that you can both winterize and not be inconvenienced by that. Win, win, win.

[Streamside]

Originally Posted by Zach05855

So this just goes to show that the folks at JC are clueless.


I own an ATLAS, and have spent hours under my Atlas and I can 100% say that the tanks and lines are exposed. They will freeze and the minimal heating pads may give you a few degrees leeway but the lines are not heated .

This has just convinced me to never buy an Atlas. Living in Colorado and traveling through the state one could experience freezing temps almost anytime of the year. This sounds like a design failure at airstream and I am surprised that this flaw has not been addressed.
I own an 07 27fb and with the exception of the exterior faucet and shore water hookup (which can be isolated and drained) everything else is insulated and is heated by the furnace heat. I’ve been in sub freezing temperatures for days with no issues.
Best of luck with your vans and atlases

[Starliner]

This is a follow up post nine months on from the original. Last winter I took my Atlas on a number of really wonderful adventures to Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada Mountains. I realize this wasn’t exactly the Arctic, the temperature never dropped into the single digits, but my Atlas preformed like a champ. As long as the interior temperature is above freezing I don’t see the cold as being any problem.