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Old 01-01-2019, 05:27 PM   #21
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Been able to do some research. Looks like solutions are starting to emerge from vendors. Victron has a product line that can fit the bill, but one from Xantrex looks interesting.

http://www.xantrex.com/industry-solu...edome-gen.aspx
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:09 PM   #22
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McRider et al:
Just a heads up on that Xantrex web page. At this page they describe their battery technology in no less than three different ways: Lithium ion, lithium ion iron phosphate, and lithium iron.


http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Acc...lustration.pdf


I assume they intend to call it lithium iron phosphate, leaving all three descriptors on the same page to be in error to one degree or another.

Doesn't anybody proofread anymore ?
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:10 PM   #23
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McRider et al:
Just a heads up on that Xantrex web page. At this page they describe their battery technology in no less than three different ways: Lithium ion, lithium ion iron phosphate, and lithium iron.

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Acc...lustration.pdf

I assume they intend to call it lithium iron phosphate, leaving all three descriptors on the same page to be in error to one degree or another.

Doesn't anybody proofread anymore ?
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:23 PM   #24
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The Winnebago and Advanced RV use the Volta system. They now have three different conversion kits for the Sprinter.

https://voltapowersystems.com/wp-con...gy-storage-rv/
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:33 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
Been able to do some research. Looks like solutions are starting to emerge from vendors. Victron has a product line that can fit the bill, but one from Xantrex looks interesting.

http://www.xantrex.com/industry-solu...edome-gen.aspx
MCRIDER - Good stuff & plenty good reading. Lots more options, always good for consumers
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:48 AM   #26
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The Tesla Powerwalls are interesting, but I asked an engineer for the local successful solar installation company about them, and he said he is not ready to recommend them.

So Iím waiting a few years to see if there is some power wall-like derivative
coming from Porsche R&D via VW.
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:52 AM   #27
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Why?
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:37 AM   #28
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I hope folks know that the cells used in EVs are subject to thermal runaway and hence the various fires and such online. Better not deploy them without a ton of knowledge and at any rate, not inside the RV.

The cells we usually use LifePO4. These are very safe in comparison and do not have the potential for thermal runaway The reason they don't use them in EVs is because they don't have the same energy density of the little cells your see in Tesla batteries and such. For our application, that loss of efficiency is worth getting the much safer chemistry.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:51 AM   #29
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I hope folks know that the cells used in EVs are subject to thermal runaway . . .
Yep. That is why I have been holding off until I could do an undercarriage application in a sealed compartment. The energy density and light weight are just too appealing for a class B application to ignore. The Volta solution seems to be the best current option for the use of EV (Cobalt) chemistry all contained in a rigid structure with thermal and cell management.

It will be a real break-through when the Li-S chemistry makes it into scaled production. Higher energy density and much safer.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:00 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
Yep. That is why I have been holding off until I could do an undercarriage application in a sealed compartment. The energy density and light weight are just too appealing for a class B application to ignore. The Volta solution seems to be the best current option for the use of EV (Cobalt) chemistry all contained in a rigid structure with thermal and cell management.



It will be a real break-through when the Li-S chemistry makes it into scaled production. Higher energy density and much safer.


MCRIDER - agree the Volta solution looks appealing. Itís on my list as possible option for my next B-van. The cells in a Tesla pack are especially dangerous without a good thermal management system to keep them safe.

My new Chevy Bolt EV has a battery pack that is a bit safer than the chemistry in the Tesla. But it still has an elaborate liquid thermal management system to keep the pack cool or warm as needed.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:13 PM   #31
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Kinda hoping the Winnebago Volta would be ready for upcoming rv show in Quartzsite, AZ. Maybe I being too optimistic. But I still plan attend a few days and check things out.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:08 PM   #32
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Kinda hoping the Winnebago Volta would be ready for upcoming rv show in Quartzsite, AZ. Maybe I being too optimistic. But I still plan attend a few days and check things out.

Hi Alex,

Interesting to see that Winnebago/Volta is using the same NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) chemistry as the Victron HE batteries I used in my system and going to a 48V battery voltage, like I did.

What I want to see are "flat" (4" high) NMC batteries in 2'x4' or 2'x8' modules. That way they can be mounted in the frame, with proper protection.

Looks like the next 2-3 years are going to be dynamic for electrical systems in the RV industry.

Pat
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:25 PM   #33
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Hi Alex,

Interesting to see that Winnebago/Volta is using the same NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) chemistry as the Victron HE batteries I used in my system and going to a 48V battery voltage, like I did.

What I want to see are "flat" (4" high) NMC batteries in 2'x4' or 2'x8' modules. That way they can be mounted in the frame, with proper protection.

Looks like the next 2-3 years are going to be dynamic for electrical systems in the RV industry.

Pat
PAT - HI. Have not heard from you in awhile The Powerwall 3 fits closely to your dimensions (45″ x 30″ x 6″) but last I read, their initial offering will still be Li-Ion 14kwh for that footprint. I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:36 PM   #34
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I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
I have two Powerwall 2s in my house; I was one of the first to have the second generation Powerwalls installed. They've been great for both backup and time of use load shifting. The latter has really paid off in spite of the charging and storage losses.

The Powerwall units and the Tesla vehicle packs are a more traditional lithium ion chemistry, and they are subject to thermal runaway, but fires are rare despite what has been publicized. If you look at fires on a per vehicle mile basis, you'll find that ICE cars are more likely to go up in flames. Tesla has a pretty solid thermal management system for the packs.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:19 PM   #35
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PAT - HI. Have not heard from you in awhile The Powerwall 3 fits closely to your dimensions (45″ x 30″ x 6″) but last I read, their initial offering will still be Li-Ion 14kwh for that footprint. I am focusing on Tesla because my first want for that pricepoint is for my stick house. And my rationale is the rv solutions can/will only follow once the residential solutions are perfected/optimized/standardized. With over +300 days of sunshine in Vegas, it is a logical next step for my house as prices reach affordable levels. I agree, interesting energy products should keep us 'humming' (no pun intended) many years to come
Alex,

I looked at the Powerwall and decided, as you did, that it's not a RV use product; yet. Best I can tell it is designed for grid tied or grid assist use only. The giveaway was the requirement for PV inverters for the solar panels. I did note on Tesla's web site that an off grid version of the Powerwall is "Coming Soon". If it's designed for off grid use, a DC solar charge controller will probably be added to the package. (That's just a guess.)

No telling what Musk is going to come up with next. Building a reusable, 1st stage booster rocket that will return to earth an land on its butt sold me on the guy. NASA would have never had the balls to try that.


Pat
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:08 PM   #36
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Alex,

I looked at the Powerwall and decided, as you did, that it's not a RV use product; yet. Best I can tell it is designed for grid tied or grid assist use only. The giveaway was the requirement for PV inverters for the solar panels. I did note on Tesla's web site that an off grid version of the Powerwall is "Coming Soon". If it's designed for off grid use, a DC solar charge controller will probably be added to the package. (That's just a guess.)

No telling what Musk is going to come up with next. Building a reusable, 1st stage booster rocket that will return to earth an land on its butt sold me on the guy. NASA would have never had the balls to try that.


Pat
PAT - would that be the version they are testing all over Aussieland on a Tiny House being towed by a Tesla X ? That why I think they up to something really good for us rv'ers. Yep, MUSK is a pretty gutsy dude. Need risk takers to advance tech
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:26 PM   #37
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Ah, that explains why when I searched for Powerwall 3 all I got was Aussie sites. I'm looking forward to learning more.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:27 PM   #38
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I have two Powerwall 2s in my house; I was one of the first to have the second generation Powerwalls installed. They've been great for both backup and time of use load shifting. The latter has really paid off in spite of the charging and storage losses.

The Powerwall units and the Tesla vehicle packs are a more traditional lithium ion chemistry, and they are subject to thermal runaway, but fires are rare despite what has been publicized. If you look at fires on a per vehicle mile basis, you'll find that ICE cars are more likely to go up in flames. Tesla has a pretty solid thermal management system for the packs.
OHMMAN - is that a nickname or your real name? It's pretty cool either way, especially since I am old school electronics nerd going back to discrete soldered wire circuits in high school back in early 70's. Great to hear from Powerwall owners, even though it's not for rv's (yet)
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:40 PM   #39
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PERKS of living in Vegas - get to attend all the conventions - INTERBIKE, Adult Film Oragamy, Consumer Electronic Show, etc, even the AS dealer convention. This from this week CES, it the NOVUS electric carbon fiber motorbike powered by Li-Ion and DD hub motor putting out 200nm torque. That puts it in the 2.0 sec category 0-60 mph. Watch out, Mr. TESLA MUSK Taking some tech queues from bicycles, the 2-wheeler moto-herd is advancing. Ohhh, it only $40,000
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:37 PM   #40
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Well, maybe not all over Australia because the whole rig would fall to bits on some of our roads.

Interesting that people are installing battery systems in their houses - and they are doing it in Australis too. Interesting because even in Australia with our good sunshine, and fairly good government subsidies and higher electricity prices that make solar panels a very good investment, adding batteries to the system just doesn't add up financially because the payback period is too long to guarantee a positive return on investment
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