House Battery Detaches on Highway Today

[eyechip]

@Alex I think the factory installed is pretty much ok. It seems to be the extra lbs of the upgraded batteries causing the issue. But if upgrading I think every service center in the US needs to be notified and a retrofit established. Since no one else on factory batteries has come forth it's got to be pretty solid.

@tronadora Really interesting. The 8K mileage since the upgrade is almost EXACT as to mine upon failing. Also, to get to rivers I am bouncing on dirt roads a bit. Seems that our scenarios are nearly identical. Uncanny.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Tronadora

I don't think you have to worry (much) if you have the factory installed six rivets and the original weight 56lb batteries.

Originally Posted by eyechip

@Alex I think the factory installed is pretty much ok. It seems to be the extra lbs of the upgraded batteries causing the issue.

TRONADORA, EYECHIP - Respectfully, I have to disagree. If 10 extra lbs. per battety on cantilevered weight is the big cause of problems, then the original design is still very close to marginal. And supposedly AS will warranty upgrade the bracket on ANY unit (stock or modified) that shows failure signs. And ASLV had found stock units that were loosely held by the rivets. And again, they insisted on checking mine (stock, untouched). I would like to believe Joe Curland, Service Manager at ASLV was not lying to me about all these. BTW, from EYECHIPS pics, it appears his unit just has 6 rivet holes, not the new field installed holes seen on TRONADORA pics. So, what's the diff for same upgrade?

From an engineering design POV - a 17.8%(10lbs) safety margin for weight bearing cantilevered platform is risky. Maybe it's not illegal, but still risky. If I was on the prototype review team of this as an employee of HP, I would reject it unless it has at least a 50% (28lbs) margin. If I was designing it for my personal use, I would have a 100% (+56lbs) margin.

The other design flaw is the fact that it is attached to sheetmetal. That type of weight needs to be attached to the frame.

[joe rv guy]

Tronadora, did Adventures NW, Portland install your 6V battery upgrade? They installed mine, and now I'm wondering/worried. Thanks Joe

[Tony Lee]

National recall situation surely.

Mr Airstream will be along shortly ti request details

[Titus]

I would argue that even a 50% factor of safety is not enough, cantilevered or not. The increased g load when hitting a sharp bump would instantly 'eat up' this margin. While we have no way of knowing for sure, I'll bet many of the broken sewer pipes reported frequently on T1N Interstates as well as most other mechanical failures that we experience occur when hitting a bump. The rest of the failures probably occurred when the frame and body twisted when going over uneven ground. This twisting is also not addressed in the factor of safety. An empty battery case that is 'too stiff' could break off if the frame twisted and it didn't.

[JayP]

I would bet $1 (my maximum gambling amount) that after the rework on both of these aftermarket changes in this thread that they used a different rivet than OEM. They probably used a standard aluminum pop rivet, or whatever they had in their shop.

https://www.rivetsonline.com/documen...e%20rivets.pdf

Look at part number RV6676-0806.
1250 shear strength, 950 tensile
I think this is why we don't see batteries littering the highways.

I would pull off the remaining bracket and see what rivet was used.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

I would argue that even a 50% factor of safety is not enough, cantilevered or not. The increased g load when hitting a sharp bump would instantly 'eat up' this margin. While we have no way of knowing for sure, I'll bet many of the broken sewer pipes reported frequently on T1N Interstates as well as most other mechanical failures that we experience occur when hitting a bump. The rest of the failures probably occurred when the frame and body twisted when going over uneven ground. This twisting is also not addressed in the factor of safety. An empty battery case that is 'too stiff' could break off if the frame twisted and it didn't.

TITUS - +1 - this is part of my consideration for upgrading to lighter lithium AND giving up interior space to mount them. Spend my money on safer retrofit rather than trying to make the AS method safer (essentially doing their R&D for them)

Originally Posted by JayP

I would bet $1 (my maximum gambling amount) that after the rework on both of these aftermarket changes in this thread that they used a different rivet than OEM. They probably used a standard aluminum pop rivet, or whatever they had in their shop.

https://www.rivetsonline.com/documen...e%20rivets.pdf

Look at part number RV6676-0806.
1250 shear strength, 950 tensile
I think this is why we don't see batteries littering the highways.

I would pull off the remaining bracket and see what rivet was used.

JAYP - Sorry. Not according to ASLV Service Manager. I was at the shop in person 2 days ago and had a private talk with him. Of course I can not verify this. Hopefully EYECHIP preserves the evidence in case of potential liability issues. Also, the rivet shear & tensile numbers won't matter if it rips out from the sheet metal. The rivets may not be the weak point, the sheet metal may be the weak point

[eyechip]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

TITUS - +1 - this is part of my consideration for upgrading to lighter lithium AND giving up interior space to mount them. Spend my money on safer retrofit rather than trying to make the AS method safer (essentially doing their R&D for them)

JAYP - Sorry. Not according to ASLV Service Manager. I was at the shop in person 2 days ago and had a private talk with him. Of course I can not verify this. Hopefully EYECHIP preserves the evidence in case of potential liability issues. Also, the rivet shear & tensile numbers won't matter if it rips out from the sheet metal. The rivets may not be the weak point, the sheet metal may be the weak point

Alex, My feeling (and the feeling of a few friends and the guy who came out to help me on the highway is that the sheet metal IS the weak point. Yes, I saved everything...not the battery though obviously as it was pretty battered and I was worried about it leaking. Further, the second battery is also showing signs of ready to detach which is why we strapped it really well. I will try to get pictures of that one next week for everyone.

I have a meeting with a general RV place near DC next week to look at things as I simply can't find any Airstream Service anywhere within reason to touch it until mid-December.

[jhenry]

I have to weigh in on this discussion. First of all did you do your home work on the upgrade? Second was it factory approved? I up graded to 2 heavy duty 6-volt batteries in my 325 a very noticeable difference in weight, the battery tray was factory so I took out the whole tray and had a new reinforced bottom welded on, compensating for the added weight. Also every morning before your trip do you do a walk around your rig? Something to think about? In my mind You did an upgrade or had it done for you, so if you did not like the way it was done that's the time to speak up. Take some responsibility!

[eyechip]

Originally Posted by jhenry

I have to weigh in on this discussion. First of all did you do your home work on the upgrade? Second was it factory approved? I up graded to 2 heavy duty 6-volt batteries in my 325 a very noticeable difference in weight, the battery tray was factory so I took out the whole tray and had a new reinforced bottom welded on, compensating for the added weight. Also every morning before your trip do you do a walk around your rig? Something to think about? In my mind You did an upgrade or had it done for you, so if you did not like the way it was done that's the time to speak up. Take some responsibility!

@jhenry. I assume you are directing this to me. Yes, I do walk around each morning and I always peer under to look for any hanging wires or parts. I never noticed any obvious signs with the batteries and a few weeks before did happen to go under the vehicle and things looked fine. As well it had just been serviced for many things at Colonial and they never noticed anything.

But no, I do not crawl under the vehicle each morning. This was not an older used unit, nor a kit made at home as a DIY which might facilitate this. It is a brand new $150K rig tested as best in class and widely driven around the country by others. I paid for the assurance of that and deserve to not have to check every part and parcel by crawling under it each day.

As far as installation I was perhaps too trusting of an Airstream Service center that has performed hundreds of these. As well that never before has anyone posted this happening before. I can't monitor every part of this rig to assure some sort of safety compliance. While I can stay woke to the obvious I will also have to leave certain aspects of this to what is ultimately work done by certified service centers and the promise of a best in class $150K machine.

When a plane crashes because of a faulty system or part there are always a few that will blame the pilots for not seeing it ahead of time. The reality is that as much as a good pilot can walk around and check systems there is, as well, onus on the manufacturer to build a safe product. The human element is only as good as the aircraft, or in this case the rig.

With that said I have never complained here about Airstream or Airstream Vegas. Sh$#t happens. We discovered this potential issue and solutions are being worked on by everyone. That is how we progress and make our investment better and safer to ourselves and those around us.

[jhenry]

My intention was not single you out but to inform you of my experience. Things Happen but sometimes we can reduce our exposure and damage.After 30 years as a professional firefighter I tend to want to prevent things like this event happening to others.Thanks for sharing this problem you have made others aware of hazards that can befall us.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by jhenry

My intention was not single you out but to inform you of my experience. Things Happen but sometimes we can reduce our exposure and damage.After 30 years as a professional firefighter I tend to want to prevent things like this event happening to others.Thanks for sharing this problem you have made others aware of hazards that can befall us.

JHENRY - thanks for sharing your experience. We all want to stay safe. The battery tray being discussed in this thread is under a Sprinter van behind the rear wheels. Upgraded or standard Airstream is making a mistake installing these batteries by riveting a tray to very think sheet metal that is only a panel enclosure under the van. This location was never intended to carry the weight of these batteries. I predict Airstream will be changing this design as more failures are reported. I have over 30 years experience as an Aerospace structural engineer and was also a licensed Mechanical Engineer for 20 years. This battery tray installation is flawed.

[Gene]

I don't think you have to be a licensed engineer to question supporting batteries by attaching the box to sheet metal instead of to a frame member. I think this is a serious design flaw by Airstream. The modification in Las Vegas seems to have followed the original design flaw. Both companies share responsibility. It appears the dealer is accepting responsibility, but, as is all to frequent, Airstream is trying to avoid it. It is important to find out if Airstream has recently changed the design of the battery box, possibly to save money. It would not be the first time the company has made cost cutting changes without thinking things through.

If this is a frequent modification, I think everyone who has had it done should park their Interstate until it can be fixed. With this happening twice, it sounds like it will happen again. I have no idea how many of these modifications have been made, but two out of 100 or even 200 is a lot when weighed against the risks involved. I would hate to be behind a bouncing battery on the road and was glad to see at least one cable held the battery. Now that Interstate owners have notice about this, they may have some liability if they chose to drive with this condition.

And what about the stock installation? The difference in weight is not all that much as has been discussed here, so it seems the stock installation may be dangerous, just less so. Are there other such events, either with modifications or stock? Remember, people upgrading batteries is very common and Airstream should have known that and designed the battery box to handle greater weight.

It is fortunate that the batteries bouncing along have not broken and sprayed battery acid around. I knew someone who had a battery explode under his hood and sprayed acid. For the next year he was replacing wires and other things as the sulphuric acid ate its way through stuff. It is bad for objects, even worse for people.

For those who have had this happen, document everything along with many photos in case you need prove any claims. For those who have Interstates, sounds like a good idea to check out the battery box. I know the right rivets, properly installed, hold things together well, but bolts (and welding especially) should be stronger. Maybe I'm wrong about bolts, but I would think welding the box to the frame would be the best way to do it. I realize there is a lot of stuff to fit somewhere in a van, but having the batteries underneath sure makes it unlikely many people will ever check the box.

It seems lucky no one was hurt and little damage was done compared to the nasty possibilities. I hope eyechip finds a good shop to fix the problem.

[Alex AVI]

EYECHIP - As usual, many really good posts & response from the folks here. I just want to add - I am in town for awhile, no trips scheduled with AI (though itching to go somewhere). So if you need someone to check out something physically in AS LV, feel free to use me as your gopher. While I can not speak to AS LV on your behalf, you can use & abuse me to be your ears & eyes. Joe Curland seems ready & willing to do what it takes to make you whole. Best to you!

[eyechip]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

EYECHIP - As usual, many really good posts & response from the folks here. I just want to add - I am in town for awhile, no trips scheduled with AI (though itching to go somewhere). So if you need someone to check out something physically in AS LV, feel free to use me as your gopher. While I can not speak to AS LV on your behalf, you can use & abuse me to be your ears & eyes. Joe Curland seems ready & willing to do what it takes to make you whole. Best to you!

Alex, thanks so much, dude. Things should be fine and Joe has been very responsive and showing a great deal of concern. Once I find the person to make the repairs and retrofit and battery replacement I will talk to him again to see how his new system worked (if he did one yet). As well, going to ask him if he can send me one of his retrofit kits to speed things up with my repairs. He has expressed more than a willingness to pay for anything I need with a quote from the service person I choose.

I do wish I had done this back here before though and not in Vegas. Not because of their work. But because I know if I lived in Vegas, Joe would have taken care of doing these repairs right away no matter their back log. Now I am stuck with a low priority with anyone on the east coast as it was not their upgrade. Just finding someone to get it fixed is turning out to be the hardest part. I have an appointment with a general RV repair place in the DMV tomorrow so we will see. Lesson learned...always get upgrades done near your home.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by eyechip

RV repair place in the DMV tomorrow so we will see. Lesson learned...always get upgrades done near your home.

EYECHIP - Yes, so true. So sorry lesson learned the hard way. But no one got hurt, so thats good. Which is why I value having a dealer close by and having an on going relationship with them. I hope your search for a service provider goes well

[eyechip]

Welp, an update. I finally got a local place in DC to service and they are ready to replace the battery and install the retrofit that Airstream Las Vegas created as a response to the faulty installation. I set this all up two weeks ago.

Airstream Vegas was fine in saying they would pay for the repairs and they have been forthcoming in that regard. But, what has riled me up is a complete lack of response in the very simple task of sending the retrofit for this local firm to do the work.

1. Contacted Joe at Airstream Vegas to send me the retrofit 12 days ago. No problem, on its way.

2. Thereby set up an appt. with my local person for last Friday.

3. Requested a tracking number from Joe for days for which I got a constant response that his "guy" was out sick and he can't find it but it's positive on its way.

4. It never came by Friday. Went to the service guy here and talked to him and he was clear, "I am not installing this battery without the retrofit...this is a mess they made in thinking this original system would hold and I will not be a part of someone getting hurt when it falls out again." Agreed of course. We talked about alternatives like installing under the sofa which I am not a fan of.

5. I left and he said he will try his best to get this done next week (this week now) if I can get the retrofit soon.

6. I kept after Joe at Airstream Vegas. He kept giving me vague responses and today after numerous messages texted me that his "guy" had pneumonia and he was going to try and find out more. I begged him to send me another one and I will pay for the overnight. He response was simply, "I will get it today." Whatever that means.

7. Nothing more. No tracking number. No response as he promised. Nothing.

I had a planned a trip next week to head south and now, after a month of this nonsense am still waiting. I found a local person I like for the repairs (that is good) but Airstream Vegas is a mess in following through with the most basic of all requests: Sending the damn retrofit. I mean, how hard is this? He promised, he said he did, he refuses to send me a tracking number after 12 days and I am now left without choices or time.

This is not a repair they needed to do. This is not even a thing that would take more than 10 minutes. All they had to do was package and send the damn retrofit part.

Sorry, but Airstream Vegas is a mess. They installed an upgrade that could have killed someone and left me liable and they can't even do a simple task in 12 days of shipping a part for repair.

I have been more than reasonable in all of this. No more.

[Alex AVI]

EYECHIP - oh boy, that is just so horrible how they handled this. Even I am embarassed to hear this, from my local dealer that I have to work with. So sorry for you going through this.

[InterBlog]

Bets placed on the fact that they don't actually have a retrofit apparatus to send, and THAT is why you are getting the run-around, NOT because someone is too busy to take ten minutes to overnight a package.

Airstream figured they'd procure the apparatus in time to send, such that the process would appear seamless as viewed by outsiders. But then when it didn't get produced, they were left holding the bag on their original promise. This is a common tactic in service industries and it semi-works right up until the point where it backfires and they are revealed as the lying illegitimate children that they really are.

It happens all the time. In a former house, I installed a new interior doorway and had to patch a piece of hardwood floor between the two rooms. The floor was a commercial grade of solid white oak which was difficult to source. Several times I was told "it's on its way" but I knew it was a lie. I called them out on it and said, "Look, stop BS-ing and just be honest and admit that you never had it in the first place." They did. And then I waited three months with a hole in my floor until a suitable product could be located.

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by eyechip

I was not sure how to title this as it is a pretty serious occurrence and so bizarre as to fail the title test of explanation and whimsy.

Basically though, this is what happened:

Today, on I-284 in Chicago, one of my House Batteries came out from it's rack and was dragging on the interstate in heavy traffic while doing 65MPH. I heard the screeching and managed to get over quickly to find it dangling by the wires and completely wrecked from a half mile of bouncing on the pavement. It's amazing it still hung there after this.

I was completely baffled. I first called Colonial and they were pretty shocked but awesome to offer as much assistance as they could. They got me hooked up with CoachNet and gave me all the info so that I could get someone out to assist.

I then texted Airstream in Vegas as they installed these upgraded batteries when I was there in August for the mess with my Fusion system. They were shocked as well and insisted they were installed exactly as to Airstream's system and assured me they would take care of everything to replace.

The roadside technician came out and was also shocked...he never saw this before. But after looking at the attachments and system for this his quote was "This is what Airstream does to secure these? My god, it's crap and flimsy and I am surprised this is not happening more." He got the destroyed battery off, tied up the loose cords, and secured the remaining battery with straps.

I am now without power. Even my Fusion is shutting down every hour for a few minutes since this occurred. I am making my way home to arrive on Wednesday and will have everything replaced and fixed somewhere (I am damned if I have to drive back to Colonial in NJ AGAIN and I really NEED a good tech in the DC area)

The warning here is that we assume these batteries are secure and the system is safe. It may not be and do not assume it ever. I am going to talk to who ever does the repairs about a secondary backup that will at least protect from instant detachment like this.

I am just grateful that I was able to get over quickly and it did not detach and cause an accident. I can not imagine a motorcycle or small compact car hitting one of these on the highway.

Will try and attach photos in a separate post. Has anyone else heard of this happening with the AI?

Hi eyechip,*

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