Generator living in the interstate

[Lily&Me]

“Airstream Interstate has Nobody. And if the Airstream Interstate eventually gets Somebody to assume this role, they better not be a member of the "never slept in" crowd, because that's just NOT a compelling story on any level. There has to be an explicit presentation of how the product enhances the lives of those who buy it. “


Airstream Interstate has all of us...posting about what we do and how we do it, where we go, what we like and don’t, etc., and I dare say we here have contributed more than a little to the surge in popularity of not only Interstates but Class B’s in general.

When we bought ours in 2007, they were fairly new, and we were told these were made and marketed for jazzed up, glammed up, non-camping excursions and activities.

We intended to travel and camp in ours, and did , the occasional boondocking coming in baby steps several years down the road.

One’s intended purpose and use for their respective Interstate varies quite a bit, as evidenced right here on this thread.

Everyone has their own idea of what is ideal for them, and that’s okay....different strokes for different folks, and Airstream Interstates don't have to be the be-all, end-all for all people.

People who don’t like what Interstates offer, will choose something else.

Maggie

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

Airstream Interstate has all of us...

YEESSS !! . . . I have learned so much more from the expertise & everyone here 👍, I don't need the stinkin' Russos or FitRV 🤣 (though admittedly, I like those guys, but all their fancy vids could not convince me to buy anything other than AI).

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

This is absolutely not a winning strategy.
.

.

Statistical Surveys Inc. (SSI) reported that Winnebago Industries Inc. led the segment through March with a 37.2% market share followed by Erwin Hymer Group North America (30%) and Thor Industries Inc. (13.1%)."



Someone over on Class B Forum also said something interesting that relates to this... I suppose I knew this, but it wasn't until his comment that I consciously realized that the Interstate has no de facto brand ambassador. From poster BBQ:



"WGO have the FitRV and tons of Lichtsinn videos.



RT have the Roadtrekking Mike Wendell.



Hymer have the We're the Russos."



Airstream Interstate has Nobody. And if the Airstream Interstate eventually gets Somebody to assume this role, they better not be a member of the "never slept in" crowd, because that's just NOT a compelling story on any level. There has to be an explicit presentation of how the product enhances the lives of those who buy it. If all that story consists of is driving from Point A to Point B, it might as well be the story of my beater Toyota Sienna.

I don’t think that is their strategy, it just happens to be their demographic.

As far as other brands capturing more of this B van “wave”, frankly they are innovating and adding both features and floor plans while AS sits back and changes the interior to create the TB model. As I said in a post a while ago, AS better get their game face on or they’re going to get overtaken by the herd.

Last, who would their ambassador be? Given their “typical” clientele, would anyone watch YouTube videos of people driving from their house in [insert name of cold place here] to their house in [insert name of warm place here] while staying in hotels along the way? They would get 10 subscribers if they were lucky. The people mentioned above as brand ambassadors embrace the RV lifestyle and spend most (or all in the case of the Russo’s) of their time living that lifestyle. I don’t know many (any) people doing what they do in an Interstate. As you say, if the story is driving A to B, it might as well be a car, truck, etc. Nothing special about that where you would convince the “average Joe” that they need a $170,000 vehicle to perform that task......

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

...
Last, who would their ambassador be? .....

In all likelihood, that person or people would need to emerge spontaneously as they have for other brands, in order to be perceived as even half-ways genuine. The new marketing of the 21st century means that ambassadors converge on products - products don't launch search campaigns for ambassadors. The rules have all changed. When someone like James Adinaro rips a Travato from stem to stern on account of its insufficiency for his purposes, it still doesn't reflect poorly on WGO because, well, it's just James, and people want to watch the show no matter what he does that might seem counter to the brand. The brand doesn't suffer - this is part of the way the new marketing rules work. The main thing is that everyone knows that James, who is obviously a genuine person, is a rocket scientist who chose a Travato over SOB, and rocket scientists are perceived to be smart, so a lot of other people are thinking, "Be Like James." And WGO leads the B herd very strongly. These things are not unrelated.

I realize this is major thread drift here but it's also very interesting, and a new topic that we hadn't broached previously.

Who do you think should emerge as the analogous Airstream Interstate ambassador in the online realm? What would that person, or couple, or family look like? How would they be different from the others who have become household names among the van crowd? How would they be similar? Maybe it needs a new thread.

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

We may have done different travels. In Texas, a large number of what are advertised as "RV parks" are really good old fashioned trailer parks (maybe it's that way everywhere?). There might be 100 permanent trailers in there (the aforesaid plywood boxes) with 6 spaces set aside for over-nighters passing through. Which means that the prevailing clientele tends to be better in the nearest Walmart parking lot.

My answer is "due diligence." There are plenty of RV park reviews that will give you the "lay of the land." For instance, the RV park right here in Dripping Springs has a one-star average review and every review mentions it is marginal and packed with full-timers. The worst I have ever encountered was a result of a breakdown and no one bothered us or our rig. The second worst was mud when I stopped at a place I had not checked out.

I find Google earth to be my best tool. I take a good look at every place I plan to stay and the alternatives in the area. The permanent folks are all too obvious.

The worst area I have encountered in Texas is west on I-10. Parks are chock full with oil workers and wind farm workers. Last time coming east, I made an early day stop at Balmarhea for a night and then overnighted at Junction, not needing to stop in the problem area. Actually, I don't worry about working folks bothering me, just that there are usually no or very few spaces open.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

YEESSS !! . . . I have learned so much more from the expertise & everyone here 👍, I don't need the stinkin' Russos or FitRV 🤣 (though admittedly, I like those guys, but all their fancy vids could not convince me to buy anything other than AI).

Collectively we might represent some kind of a start, and we probably give some folks a warm-fuzzy on where they can go to get problems fixed -- once they've already decided to buy (or persevere with) this brand.

But we are not even remotely as visible to the wider world as these specific emergent characters I'm talking about. There's literally orders of magnitude in the difference. LB_3 and I have been doing some impressive van work for the past 3 years and by that basket of magic tricks, I have accumulated a whopping 144 Instagram followers (not that I've tried to reel them in, obviously). TheFitRV has 5,241. LOL, our very own John Jackson (Notstock) has 25,400, but he's not an ambassador for anything other than his highly successful own brand.

By marketing standards, we don't even constitute a tiny blip on the radar. And not only that, we probably turn as many buyers away as we convince to join, on account of the brand problems that we keep discussing openly.

[Mansderm161]

This was my first RV, and as I mentioned before, Im not into "roughing it," but most of my family lives in Texas out in the middle of nowhere. I'm plugged in at my parents with 90 degree heat and the air going constantly. My rig is covered, and I mean covered with both dead and live bugs. Will not come back this late ever again. But I really like my AI, I find it very comfortable to sleep in, I dont mind the noise of the AC. My cat is doing well in it also and my planned round trip is about 3 weeks. Saying all that, I dont think its designed to dry camp, you can do a short overnight, but otherwise you will spend a fortune for running the generator or run your batteries down, or probably live uncomfortably without the modifications mentioned in other blogs. I've read my manual at least 3 times, but have learned so much more from everyone who participates on this site. I dont think we deter buyers by being open. There is no perfect brand. I did a lot of research before buying and bottom line is there are so many moving parts that are constantly being shaken and rattled on the road that you will have problems. I just look at it as part of the adventure and from this forum and meeting others at the airstream rally in myrtle beach, I have concluded that we are an amazing group of critical thinkers and problem solvers. And I did stay one night at a Texas "trailer park". Any airstream is going to stand out like a sore thumb and the AI more so with the giant mercedes logo, but everyone was nice and it was very quiet after 10pm.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

By marketing standards, we don't even constitute a tiny blip on the radar.

I'll give you a sobering anecdote from the leadership of one of the largest AS dealers in the country. They're giddy that their numbers are up 20% over last year. Absolutely thrilled. So much so, they feel they're doing just fine, no need to do anything different, just stay the course. I suspect the attitude at the factory is similar, so don't expect much of a push.....

[busb2]

It seems to me, The AI is an upscale focused high end niche product, not a broad market aimed RV. The price point alone will limit market share. The marketing approach seems to be working just fine. Demand is growing despite the obvious lack of effective quality control, and a very poor dealer service network. Each of my three, purchased new,units was delivered with obvious problems. Having said that, I have not found a better class B other than custom made units costing even more. My first AI, a 2009, I sold for two thousand less than I paid for it new, after keeping it four years. My overall experience has been good, but I do use the unit for traveling between houses in Florida, North Georgia, and Colorado staying at full hook up facilities along the way. I like driving the thing, seeing the Country along the way, and I hate airports, hotels and the commercial flying experience.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Mansderm161

Saying all that, I dont think its designed to dry camp, you can do a short overnight, but otherwise you will spend a fortune for running the generator or run your batteries down, or probably live uncomfortably without the modifications mentioned in other blogs.

Of the two models, the GT is the least dry camp friendly, mainly due to its larger dual-compressor fridge. Some AS dealers sell and install a dry camping package that adds 2 more AGM house batteries, and honestly I think the GT should come that way from the factory. People have a hard time just making it through the night with the 2 batteries that come standard, and to me that's a design flaw.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by busb2

It seems to me, The AI is an upscale focused high end niche product, not a broad market aimed RV. The price point alone will limit market share. The marketing approach seems to be working just fine.

I so totally agree. Whether it is a strategy by AS or it fell into that niche, I am personally fine with that. From what I see in this forum, majority of AI owners would not be content with just being 1-unit in a theoretical 75% market share (if that were to happen). I would not want to be in that crowd. Having something in limited volume (even though very similar to other brands) brings it's own 'panache' to our ownership. There's also that better relationship with Jackson Center, as examples of SCOTTP, LEWK, and myself where working directly with Jackson Center to effect a fix was possible when the dealer network faltered. That's pretty tough to do if I owned a 'W' with their 37% market share. Besides, I would not be caught driving a 'W'. IMHO, That brand just conjures up a different lifestyle picture.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Who do you think should emerge as the analogous Airstream Interstate ambassador in the online realm? What would that person, or couple, or family look like? How would they be different from the others who have become household names among the van crowd? How would they be similar? Maybe it needs a new thread.

I have a candidate for you. A gentleman on another social media site takes his family "somewhere" nearly every weekend. Local lakes, parks, into the snow, you name it. While they aren't the "50% that never sleep in it" crowd, I think they represent the "next generation" of AI buyers. Previously, AI's were mainly purchased by A) retiree "snowbirds" or B) wealthy "50 somethings" (AS's data, not mine). What I'm seeing as the economy continues to stay strong is younger families getting into these coaches....30 and 40-somethings with a 1-2-3 young kids. Maybe someone in this grouping should be your ambassador, as their usage not only fits the AI capabilities, but they more accurately represent the new generation of AI buyers....

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

....As I said in a post a while ago, AS better get their game face on or they’re going to get overtaken by the herd. .......

This is more true than most people probably know. There are two rules that can never be broken if a business is to survive: (1) cash is king (no matter what the level of profitability, it is always cash flow that determines survival) and (2) innovate or die.

Someone gloating about a 20% sales increase while their market segment is up 37.9% doesn't understand either principle. Those numbers indicate that business performance went down, not up.

Of course, the makers of the Interstate are somewhat padded against outright failure by the diversity of Airstream itself. But Thor is a public company. Public companies are legendary for their ability to trim under-performing business units. And failing to at least keep pace with the market is the very definition of under-performing.

[Alex AVI]

Having worked with Silicon Valley & Aerospace industry for 35yrs, all the while living in different time zones of the US, I fully understand the axiom "the herd is coming". I also know what "herd mentality" does, both good & bad. And "innovate or die" was a constant part of my life in hi-tech. Our division was getting outsourced to India because the herd was innovating that way . . . until customers started complaining. Then companies started innovating back this way.

So my question is - what exactly is the herd's innovation & technological breakthroughs that AS seems to be falling behind?

Let's start with the MB chassis. AFAIK AS still plans to use MB EXT High roof Dually for the 2019 AI. Unsure of engine choices but safe to say it wont be any different than the other house manufacturers. All the current safety features + VB Air + E&P hydraulic leveling + 4x4 can now be had all integrated in one unit. This is still considered the best platform to build the class B on.

Then if we go house furnishings side, for most of us, short of a full custom furniture job from Advanced RV, the interior standards of my AI is pretty luxurious. I have neighbors who have much, much higher automotive standards expectations than me (i.e. AMG & Bentley owners) and we have taken a ride to a few tailgating sports events and they are very impressed. Granted even with VB, they didnt like the rough ride in rear, but it is a truck after all.

So, we are left with the electro-mechanicals. The solar contoller upgrade is necessary. MB should have offered TPMS option. An extra cooler or bigger freezer would be nice. And for the biggies, some need extreme boondocking capabilities and add full lithium, 4th solar panel. Nice if quieter A/C and gen exists. Most of these are not issues brought on by lack of innovation on AS. It is lack of innovation by the manufacturers of these appliances (Dometic, Cummins, Magnum, Sun, etc). The 2018s now implement Firefly multiplex technology. While problems & bugs popped up, it is still big innovation that used to only exist in Prevost-level pricepoints. Same with total integration of VB, E&P, 4x4. Most manufacturers do not even offer a full time rearview monitor. They keep the old rearview mirror in place, like it would do me any good. Many also do not offer the 9-seatbelt option, even with jumpseats in place. Many do not even offer the retractable side step, though I wish it was much wider. And as problematic as it has been for many, the power shade option is still an excellent innovation. Argue implementation all you want, most would want this innovation if it works reliably.

Now, I STRONGLY agree that AI should offer an extreme boondocking option, all solar, all electric, delete gen, delete propane. But realize, you have now removed 2 alternate power sources from the rig. Yes, gen is dependent on propane. But it still does not change the fact that in the absence of sun, propane & gen saves the day.

Also, I have not heard of many backpackers carrying solar-electric-induction cooktops or lanterns in extreme multi-day treks. So, their preferred portable propane appliances would have no connectivity to AI once back in homebase. Worse case scenario, if your MB diesel engine dies, your AGM batteries run low, no sun coz its been raining for 7days, and generator wont start, you have propane to keep you alive until search & rescue arrives While propane & gen are VERY old school, even for a tech guy like me, I like having more power options, even with a lot of it's flaws. During my field work days, a backup power source was not enough. Multiple-redundancy was mandatory. And the less they are dependent on each other but redundant (i.e. solar/battery & propane/gen), the better.

Given all these, is AI really behind the innovation curve? IMHO my answer is NO. I would argue they are being selective with which innovations to offer and that this is a conscious effort rather than a lack of innovations to offer. People, myself included, just want more for less. At a certain pricepoint, you reach that ceiling. Next step is to go full custom Advanced RV where you get everything you want, nothing you don't want, and at a very steep premium. By virtue of the fact that only a very few opt to buy Advanced RV tells me a lot of us still consider their innovations not worth the price of admissions or not meeting their needs, irrespective of financial ability.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

Given all these, is AI really behind the innovation curve? IMHO my answer is NO.

My view on this is AS has set their marketing hat on the catch phrase "best in class". They want to be the luxury brand of B vans, and charge accordingly. A few years ago, that was true. Today? Other brands have caught up, and in some areas surpassed them.

I'll take the Coachmen Galleria Li3 as my candidate for my case. Fit and finish are at least equal to the Interstate (I was shocked when I spent time in one at a recent RV show). All the same features and options on the chassis (safety, convenience, etc). Fusion infotainment system. Firefly multiplex wiring. Truma hot water system.

Now let's look where the Galleria Li3 surpasses the Interstate ('18 model year):
- 2000W Xantrex Pure Sine Inverter (powers ALL coach outlets, including the microwave)
- Auto gen start
- Lithionics 600Ahr battery system
- All hardwood cabinets (not plywood w/ veneer)
- Manual blinds that work (not as fancy as powered, but THEY WORK!)
- Exterior hookups are all up and out of the way (no LP port waiting to get torn off on a curb!)
- Extra wardrobe
- Induction cooktop
- Larger galley (they build their interior all the way to the back doors)
- Better solar controller (they don't say what they use on the Li3...they use GoPower on the AGM model).

Not all of these are tech related. In fact, at least one is the REMOVAL of some very ill-conceived tech (the power blinds).

Now the kicker: You can get one of these for $20-30k LESS than the AI. Case in point: 2019 Coachmen Galleria 24T Sprinter Diesel 4x4 RV W/ Li3 Lithium Batt Class B - $136,999.

That's a 4x4 WITH the Li3 package for $30k less than the MSRP of the Interstate.

Taken as a whole package, what I saw at the most recent RV show and what I'm seeing advertised on competing web sites, the quality of materials, design, technology, components, and implementation by the "herd" has gone up dramatically while the AI has stayed relatively flat (some have argued the quality of the AI has gone down due to sloppy workmanship). I don't see where AS can keep hanging their hat on "best in class" and make it stick. I think they lost their advantage. Heck, if you want to check out a B van even more luxurious than the AI, take a look at the '18 American Coach Patriot (https://www.americancoach.com/2018-american-patriot), at $60k less than the MSRP of the Interstate! Wow.....

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

. . Heck, if you want to check out a B van even more luxurious than the AI, take a look at the '18 American Coach Patriot (https://www.americancoach.com/2018-american-patriot), at $60k less than the MSRP of the Interstate! Wow.....

OK, well I actually had done so. From their "Build Your Own Motorhome" configurator - MD4 Ext Lounge, same silver, same floorplan as my AI, only 2 options given - DELETE Front Overhead and add 28' HDTV $1945.00 (REALLY?) and Screen Door Package $2545.00. Only 100 watt solar, NO VB Air, NO E&P Hydraulic Levelers, NO 4X4, NO Tommy B., awning has no finishing front/rear end caps, NO chin dam under standard air dam, NO lower skirting behind rear wheels & rear bumper hence hitch mount would not be covered, NO 9-seat belt option = $155,370 MSRP. That ain't $60k difference. That's around $30k +/- . Adding those BIGGIE chassis mods after buying the 2018 Patriot will put it above AI without the beneft of factory installed/approved. The front & rear ends of Patriot looks pedestrian compared to AI.

You know I was going to come back with counterpoints, my friend. I like healthy debates, it makes all of us more attuned to what's out there.

2018 Patriot front end


2018 AI front end


2018 Patriot rear end - is this what you want to see on your ass-end after spending over $100k? And what's up with those ugly bulky rear camera contraptions I see with other class B's ?


2018 AI rear end


If you can not spot obvious continuity issues with missing chin dam & rear skirting & bumper skirting & awning end caps (just from cosmetic perspective) then I give up. But the missing pieces under the chassis you cannot see, cannot be easily added without much headache and added labor costs after the fact. But if a false sense of economical savings will be a determining factor, then again I give up .

EDIT: NOTICE MISSING Parktronics sensors on front, rear, and side bumpers. Try adding those afterwards.

[Pahaska]

With due respect for those with non-extended Interstates, I would not want an interior that extends to the rear doors. With no external storage, the space at the rear is invaluable to me. I especially appreciate the under-floor box that holds my leveling blocks, air compressor, extension cord, and a lot of other essentials.

When I converted my lounge to twin beds, I cantilevered the heads of the beds past the battery box and water heater so that I have plenty of space for essential items such as windshield covers, patio rug, folding chairs and the like. There is space behind the beds to hang clothing on hangers oriented front to back. This compensates for the wardrobe that is too shallow to properly hang clothing.

I think it would be great if Airstream would cantilever their twins and give the twin bed folks back the underfloor box. That might persuade me to upgrade years at some point.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

You know I was going to come back with counterpoints, my friend. I like healthy debates, it makes all of us more attuned to what's out there.

No worries.

I used the Galleria as my "case in point" for the herd catching up, and the American Coach as being really luxurious. Your counterpoints seem to focus on the AC, but you reference points not relevant to "luxury" (at least, not what I attribute to luxury, like 4x4, VB air, awnings, bumpers, etc). I was referring to things on the interior like cushy seats that look REALLY nice, super nice cabinetry, fancy schmancy shower head like AS has in the Atlas, more fully finished dash with nice center piece added, etc. To me the AC just looks more like the interior of a high end corporate jet. While not for everyone, I think it looks really nice. I'd love to see one in person and see if the fit/finish/quality is as good as it looks in the pics.

As to the cost, I was clear when I said as compared to the AI MSRP, because AI's are discounted far less than these other guys. '18 Patriots are available all over the place for $105-110k. Good luck finding an '18 AI TB w/ VB Air and levelers for less than $180k+, and I'm pretty sure I could add VB air and levelers to the AC for a LOT less than the $70k difference in price.

This would be an awesome discussion around a campfire in the evening with a nice single malt scotch (or adult beverage of your choice).

[Lily&Me]

I like my compact 22’, and have learned to do very well without the extra storage some of y’all have.

It’s my experience that the more space we have, the more stuff we find to fill it.

Maggie

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

With due respect for those with non-extended Interstates, I would not want an interior that extends to the rear doors. With no external storage, the space at the rear is invaluable to me. I especially appreciate the under-floor box that holds my leveling blocks, air compressor, extension cord, and a lot of other essentials.

When I converted my lounge to twin beds, I cantilevered the heads of the beds past the battery box and water heater so that I have plenty of space for essential items such as windshield covers, patio rug, folding chairs and the like. There is space behind the beds to hang clothing on hangers oriented front to back. This compensates for the wardrobe that is too shallow to properly hang clothing.

I think it would be great if Airstream would cantilever their twins and give the twin bed folks back the underfloor box. That might persuade me to upgrade years at some point.

Yeah, I've gone back and forth on that John. When I was first looking at B vans, I pretty much dismissed anything without decent rear storage like the AI "trunk". Now into my 2nd year of ownership, and I can fit most of the "stuff" I need under the couch/bed (rug, ladder, camp chairs, tools, fishing gear, etc), and I think I'd rather have more "organized" storage inside the living quarters. I still would want the under floor storage box though. I'm with you, and that thing is the cat's pajamas.

I've sat in my coach and wondered what I'd change on the inside, and how, to make it my "ideal" rig. My first thought is always "I'd make it shorter", and to do that, my first "casualty" would be the trunk. With the rig about 2' shorter, next I'd remove the seat behind the driver and turn that area into storage, and I'd also add the wardrobe that they no longer offer where the rear TV is. Yeah....that would be close to what I want....

EDIT: What Maggie said!