Front clip protection & Window tint

[rmkrum]

If it is 3M film, the installer should be leaving the 3M logos on the film to prove it. He should have told you to clean the logo off with alcohol swabs. If not, I’d be very suspicious.

Our local installer does exactly as I described...

[InterBlog]

My husband recently paid to have an 80% tint put on his daily driver. It was not 3M crystalline - it was what was available at the time and place he used.

I can already tell that it is no better than nothing whatsoever. It's only April, temps around 80, and I cannot comfortably place my hand on the inside surface of his windshield. Perhaps there is a visible light modulation that could be described as microscopically pleasing, but there is absolutely no heat reduction that I can discern inside the vehicle.

I don't know what 3M is doing, or intending to do, with this marketing strategy. If their product does work, why aren't they ramping up? Instead they are throttling its distribution. The installers I spoke with told me that their licensing agreement is just too onerous for them to bother with it. That plus the higher price severely restricts the pool of buyers.

Why invest what had to have been considerable R&D to build a better mousetrap, and then encumber it severely? I don't get it.

[Boxster1971]

Perhaps automobile films are not 3M's primary money making market. They do a large business in commercial building films.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/building...-solutions-us/

[rowiebowie]

You can search for local authorized installers of 3M Crystalline here:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/automoti...find-a-dealer/

3M Crystalline certification is listed to the left in a red box. For the Houston zip code 77001 it shows several 3M authorized installers, but only the first one shows Crystalline certification (Auto Film Specialists on 126 West Gray Street Houston TX 77019).

Unfortunately, neither of the two Corpus Christi dealers listed in my area (including the one who installed on my front cab windows) show the Crystalline certification.

Guess I'm going back to my installer with some questions.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

You can search for local authorized installers of 3M Crystalline here:...

Yup. But what they do NOT disclose on that website is that it might only be ONE GUY who travels from installer to installer to do jobs as they are ordered. So to list multiple installers is misleading. These businesses don't all have their own techs - at least some of them are subcontracting to an exterior installer.

This is the game that was being played in Houston, at least to an extent. That's why my target installer didn't know that the 3M Houston guy got transferred to Chicago until after his deal was basically done.

[MISGM]

I applied the 3M Crystalline film to my 2018 AIGT (windshield and side windows) seven months ago. To label it as just a "tint" is a gross disservice to its' true capabilities. The film "tint" is barely noticeable but the "thermal rejection" quality of the film is unbelievable. I have over 7000 miles on my AIGT already with many of those miles facing directly into the sun without the discomfort experienced in vehicles without the windshield/window treatment. I'm sure that in addition to thermal rejection (which makes air conditioning less of a task) , I'm probably getting a healthy dose of UV protection to everything in the cabin of my AI (including the wife and me!).

The folks that applied my film had a demo box in their shop that featured a heat lamp behind various competitive films. You were able to evaluate the degrees of heat rejection from the 3M and its competitors and judge the available levels of tinting for appearance/visibility in sunlight and nighttime situations. Il soon realized that most tints do not compete with the heat rejection properties of 3M ( and among those using Nano technology in their tinting film..3M is at least on par or better)

I did some personal research on 3M Crystalline and its' rival in regard to thermal breakdown and discolorization of the film over time based on anecdotal evidence and decided on 3M as my choice. NOTE: I can detect periodically what I call a "prism rainbow-like" effect in certain geometries of sunlight that is fleeting in duration (However, that could be related to my red/green color blindness interacting with the physical world as my wife doesn't seem to notice it..)

BTW...3M Crystalline is used extensively in commercial buildings with large glass atriums and windows for its heat rejection and tinting properties. I did have the front clip product applied at the same time. The shop had to do it twice to meet their standards (love it) because it requires control of temp/humidity during the application and curing process. My AI would not fit completely into the shop because of clearance issues with the Satellite Dome at the very rear of my RV. A little ingenuity with some tentage to seal the rear of the RV and the overhead door opening for environmental control in the shop area solved the problem. Seven months now and still chip free and the nasty bugs, dirt, and pollen just pressure wash right off!!!!

"I WAS NOT PAID/COMPENSATED TO PROMOTE 3M OR FRONT CLIP PRODUCTS"

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by MISGM

I applied the 3M Crystalline film to my 2018 AIGT (windshield and side windows) seven months ago. ...

For a moment there, I got excited by the phrase "I applied" but lower down you note that you hired someone.

I have toyed with the idea of purchasing CR90 film from an after-seller. I predict that this practice of reselling is not allowable under 3M's guidelines but as I said on another thread, with eBay, all things are possible.

If LB_3 and I could figure out how to do it, then I'd wager that a less-than-perfect DIY job would be better than NO job at all, which is what I'm potentially facing right now. There are vids on YouTube of how the installation is done. I'm confidant that we could do it. Not at all confidant that we could make it look professional, but it might be an 80/20 solution.

[rowiebowie]

So, we know 3M Crystalline is a special product. Does anyone know what degree of special training it takes to install?

I've seen Youtube videos showing it's "heat-shrink" characteristics for covering curved surfaces, but shops have been doing rear windows in cars for years and the good ones got the process down years ago.

The shop I used is well respected, has been in business for 30 yrs., has the 3M crystalline heat lamp displays, and filled out a 3M crystalline warranty card for my cab side-windows install. They did not leave any watermarks, nor was I expecting them to leave me with a final step to remove it just to prove the product was what I paid for. Crystalline is expensive, but not to the point where I expect a trusted installer (that I've used before) to rip me off and install a lesser product.

So, what should I ask when I go back to the installer that won't make them feel I'm accusing them of fraud (which I'm not)?

I just would just like to solve the riddle of why it is so hard to become an "authorized" 3M crystalline installer and what risk my shop or my warranty is exposed to if they are doing work without "official certification". And why would 3M sell the tint to an uncertified shop?

[InterBlog]

Based on my severely-limited experience, which mostly consists of other people’s anecdotal reports, you should be able to tell in about another week when our temperature begins spiking. Either you will feel a significant heat reduction, or not.

[rowiebowie]

I just don't have enough experience with the un-tinted -vs- the tinted windows since we bought our Avenue in cool Fall last year and have only made a one 3-day trip with the tint in early April. But as I posted earlier, on the one sunny day where the sun came in the driver's side window for a short while, I felt heat on my leg where the sun hit my dark jeans.

Before the tint, I had felt some heat on my bare arm, which I don't feel anymore with the tint. However, I would expect almost anything to do that much. The heat on my jeans after the 3M Crystalline was a surprise.

[TayaraTravel]

That is the installer I used. I was satisfied with the results. I can't say if there was a watermark; the van is not handy to check right now.

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

You can search for local authorized installers of 3M Crystalline here:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/automoti...find-a-dealer/

3M Crystalline certification is listed to the left in a red box. For the Houston zip code 77001 it shows several 3M authorized installers, but only the first one shows Crystalline certification (Auto Film Specialists on 126 West Gray Street Houston TX 77019).

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by TayaraTravel

That is the installer I used. I was satisfied with the results. I can't say if there was a watermark; the van is not handy to check right now.

Yes.

But when I called your installer, I could not inspire them to return my call.

So then I went with the Angleton outfit instead.

And then the Angleton outfit told me that the Houston installer suddenly got shanghai'd to Chicago.

So I suspect it was the same individual working out of both locations.

Your original installer may have been the guy who got transferred to Chicago, in other words. He had been a subcontractor to both storefronts.

[InterBlog]

This 3M thing continues to evolve as a comedy of errors.

Having no success addressing the forward problem, I tried to instead solve the inverse problem.

In other words, instead of working my way to a solution by starting with the local vendors, I regrouped and started with 3M corporate. Logic 101.

But they don't seem to understand how their own product is being sold. They told me to go to their vendor list. They think that each one of those listed entities is actually is doing their own installations. Ummmm, nope. They are using common subcontractors, at least in some areas.

But can I communicate how things work in the real world? It's proving to be a dicey proposition. Once again, I've gotten nowhere, at least so far.

[Tobbun]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

They are using common subcontractors, at least in some areas.

But can I communicate how things work in the real world? It's proving to be a dicey proposition. Once again, I've gotten nowhere, at least so far.

So I think I have 3m Crystalline on mine... but I didn't do the watermark check. There were four locations listed on 3m's site. The closest to me was Premier Autosports - 509 N. Interurban St. Richardson, TX 75081 (855-705-7470). They had the 3m display board and that little 3m light test thing... I missed the whole check the watermark thing so I wasn't looking/asking for it. They did the front windshield and the two front doors. I notice a difference and overall happy with the price and work.

[InterBlog]

At this point, given the info I have at hand, it looks like I might have to go to either Austin or Corpus for the work.

Austin is a shorter drive. Yoo-hoo!! @Pahaska!! Would you like to be a guinea pig on this one, and tell us whether the Austin installer is worth their salt?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by TayaraTravel

We did as mentioned above put 3M on our cab windows and have been happy with the results.
...

By "above" you probably meant another thread, which I am not going to look up right now, but you didn't put CR-90. You couldn't have, because your installer doesn't sell it and has not done so for years.

I just talked to the person who I suspect did your job. I had called that vendor before and gotten nowhere, but 3M corporate actually came through with a different phone number for me. I reached a Cajun who clearly knew what he was talking about, and who has clearly installed 3M Crystalline on multiple Sprinters in the past. He said they quit installing CR-90 years ago because customers were just too unhappy with the results. It didn't cut enough of the heat to make the financial investment worthwhile. They don't even keep it in stock any longer.

This is the first I've heard tell of that complaint. But, based on the demonstrated knowledge of the man I reached, I've got an appointment this coming Monday for CR-70 on the cab. I'm nervous about the night driving aspect, but there's one way to find out if it's a problem (I avoid night driving like the plague anyway, so I'm hoping it's not too much of an imposition).

And oh, BTW, I'll be eating it on the price. I'll be paying about what you paid. I don't think there's any way around this, if I want to stay in Houston and get it done some time this season. LB_3 and I concluded that we are not going to proceed with air suspension any time soon (if at all) and so that's one of the reasons why I'm more flexible now on the $$$$$ price for this tint upgrade.

I'll try to post some before-and-after pics.

[rowiebowie]

This just gets curiouser & curiouser.

[InterBlog]

Curiouser and curiouser, with plot twist after plot twist.

I forgot to ask Cajun dude if he could fix a rock chip for me on Monday before applying the 3M. No matter - I figured I'd just get it done in advance. Yesterday I scheduled a mobile repair guy to come to the house, but he bailed on me this morning. Yikes, I hit the internet to find an alternate before noon on Saturday, which is when many businesses close. I found some guy with a very small auto glass outfit in a light industrial park a few miles north of me.

Advance moral of this story: Always chat people up. There's no telling what you'll learn.

I told this guy that I wanted my rock chip sealed because I'm having the windshield tinted. He does tints, but not 3M. He told me it wasn't legal and I said I know that, but I'm willing to roll the dice because there's the possibility of claiming a skin cancer prevention exemption. He said that yes, people do that, but he won't proceed with a tinting job unless people bring him a doctor's script in advance of the job, because some of the liability is on him. If a driver with a tinted windshield wrecks, the injured party can claim that the tinter is partially responsible because they reduced the visual acuity of the driver with their illegal tint job.

OK, that's the first I heard of that issue.

He went on to ask me why I'm paying to put an expensive tint on a 12-year-old windshield. I basically said that new windshields are also expensive, especially for oversized vans, and my pockets are not infinitely deep. He said, "I could replace it for $285 installed." I said, "What?! Dealers charge far more than that!" He said, "Of course they do. Then they subcontract to me at $295 a pop which is my dealer price, and they turn around and charge their customers $700-$800 for the job." I said, "But that's passenger car prices. This is a big van." He said, "It's just the same as a FEDEX van. It's not a big deal; I do them all the time."

I then asked him about MB vs. aftermarket glass. He said they all come from the same source. MB just puts their logo on some of it, along with the logo of the original manufacturer. In his opinion, it's all the same quality.

We already knew that the seal was starting to go on our 12-year-old windshield. I've already had to patch the corners (blog post here). Ergo, given the $285 quote, we decided to first replace the windshield before investing in the tint (old windshields can't be lifted and successfully re-seated, reportedly). So hopefully the windshield will get done on Monday and then I'll reschedule the tint for shortly thereafter.

[TayaraTravel]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

By "above" you probably meant another thread, which I am not going to look up right now, but you didn't put CR-90. ....

I seem to remember 70 on the windshield and 40 on the cab side windows. I don't really perceive the 70 as being dark. We go from an untinted car to the van and there is no big change, except glare is reduced. I do notice that the mirrors seem darker at sunset. We rarely drive at night, so it's not a problem.

[rowiebowie]

Interblog, I remember many years ago you could get windshields with or without UV protection. The only reason I mention this is since all our RV's started from a basic van, could it be your old windshield lacks the protection?

Maybe your glass guy can tell you if he thinks your new windshield may perform better than your old one (even before the tint). Of course I would expect the difference to be minor.