Epoch Customer Service is Top Notch

[StogieMan]

I wanted to follow up on the two Epoch 460 Ah’s batteries with Victron Comms that we purchased and installed back in early November. I really like the batteries physical size, amperage, specs and they fit perfectly where I wanted them in our Sprinter Airstream Interstate. The Victron Comms were a major selling point as I wanted to take advantage of the DVCC function on the Cerbo GX.

Very early on I ran into charging issues that led me to search YouTube, Blogs and contact Epoch customer service. The three main issues that I was having are listed below:


1. The major issue that I and many others were having is that their manual suggests a 14.6 charging rate and a 13.5 float. If you set your parameters to these numbers - your Cerbo GX will start to throw high voltage alarms. Actually you’re going to start getting the alarms right around the 14.1 - 14.3 mark. Once you get these alarms it becomes a PITA to reset everything back mainly getting the batteries internal BMS out of the over voltage state. One battery might enter full charge protection or one battery may stay in this state longer. This causes some wonkiness when it comes to discharging etc. Either way it takes some work to get everything cleared up.

2. The Epoch battery app allows you to see both batteries along with their cell voltages etc. Overall pretty good app however, if you have two batteries or more in parallel connected to the Victron Cerbo GX - the app only shows one battery and you loose communication to the others. Again, this becomes a PITA especially if you triggered the high voltage alarm and you want to see if the batteries have reset and come out of the full charge protection mode. You’re unable to do this and it takes a while for the system to reset and get everything back on track.

3. Ok, so after some digging around and speaking with Epoch customer service, the solution is to set your charge voltage to either 13.8 or 13.9 for absorption and 13.4 or 13.5 for float. If you have the DVCC option checked on, you set the maximum charge voltage on the DVCC menu setting to 13.8 or 13.9 there. Ok, great so I did that and so have many others and the alarms stop going off. Easy enough to change the settings but this now leads to another problem. By doing this with the DVCC function enabled, your batteries now get stuck in absorption mode and won’t go into float. The Victron Comms for the Epoch 460 result in a single stage charge profile and don’t float and will just hold whatever voltage is set in the DVCC voltage limit. I contacted Epoch and they were aware and said to basically take it off DVCC mode and take off the Victron Comms cable to get it out of absorption mode. Well if you do that you no longer have Victron Comms and one of the main reasons why I bought them in the first place. I had to disconnect the Victron Comms and disable DVCC as I didn’t want them stuck in absorption mode. If you don’t use the Cerbo GX or care about Victron Comms then you should have no problems. Other than the Victron Comms issues - I’ve had no other problems with the batteries.


Now to be very honest, I’ve been ticked off regarding this situation and really blew my top when I saw on Epoch’s website the new and improved Epoch 460Ah V2 version with Victron Comms two months after purchasing the V1’s. Basically this one is suppose to solve all the issues that the V1’s had with Victron Comms, charging voltages charging and the bluetooth app. I contacted Epoch explaining my frustration and that the number one reason that I purchased them was for the Victron Comms that I now could not use. I explained my situation and asked if I would be able to either get these fixed with new BMS’ or trade these in for the new ones and pay for any difference. It wasn’t my fault that the V1’s were not ready for prime time with Victron Comms. To my surprise they were really cool about everything and said yes. They emailed me a labels to ship the old ones back for free, gave me a discount on the new ones for my troubles and free shipping on the new ones. I received my new batteries yesterday and I will be boxing up the first generation ones and drop them off at UPS.

Bottom line is that I’m glad that this worked out and very happy with Epoch’s understanding and customer service. They are standing behind their product as they should and did the right thing by their customer. If you’re looking to purchase the Epoch 460 batteries and want to incorporate them with a Victron Cerbo - make sure the you purchase the new V2 version. If not then you will fine with the V1 version if you just want more amp hours and simplicity. The new ones now have over the air firmware updates via the app for the BMS which is great to fix any future issues. The older ones don’t have this capability.

[os1r1s]

Spot on. I talked with them on Tuesday. I also have two V2s about ready to install. I'll be curious how yours works with the Cerbo and DVCC. He did mention setting the BMS to Epoch (as an option). That said, I'm following to watch your journey.

[StogieMan]

Originally Posted by os1r1s

Spot on. I talked with them on Tuesday. I also have two V2s about ready to install. I'll be curious how yours works with the Cerbo and DVCC. He did mention setting the BMS to Epoch (as an option). That said, I'm following to watch your journey.

Yup, if enabling the DVCC option I’m pretty sure that the Epoch’s BMS gets forced on as the controlling BMS by default as it should. Where you do have an option is to either use the Epoch’s internal shunt or if you have an additional Victron Shunt which I strongly recommend. I had my system set to Epoch’s BMS as the controlling BMS and the Victron Shunt BMV 712 as the default battery monitor. Another issue that’s not just specific to Epoch but most manufacturers internal battery shunts is the drifting of SOC. Specifically with the Epoch V1’s, the internal shunt did not detect amps in or out of less than 1 amp. This results in the Epoch SOC being off over time but the Victron shunt does a way better job at it and more reliable IMO. Attached is a screen shot of how bad the drift can get.

I do keep my mod thread updated and will post any info regarding this install there. Currently I have the new V2’s on a Victron charger slowly charging at 15 amps. With the V2’s they recommend 14.4 for absorption and 13.6 for float when using Victron Comms and this is how I set them up to charge. I’ve also attached a screenshot from their site. I usually let them sit on the charger for a few days to get all the cells balanced out. I have the V1’s discharging and trying to get them to about 25% so that I can box them up for shipping.

Right now I’ve started a twin bed conversion project along with a complete electrical rewire so these new batteries won’t be going in for hopefully a few weeks.

[os1r1s]

Thanks! I'll be using a Lynx setup for Distro/Shunt/Power-in. Are you using 4/0 from the batteries or 2/0? And are you relying on the built in t-class fuse or adding an MRBF?

[StogieMan]

I already have a Victron BMV 712 Shunt and a Lynx Distributor but since I’m redoing everything, I’ve decided to add a Lynx Power In, an additional Lynx Distributor and replace the BMV 712 Shunt with the Lynx Shunt. The Lynx Power in will get the 4/0 cables from the batteries and used as the batteries busbar as recommended by Epoch. The way that I had it setup before was that I installed an MRBF fuse on each battery + terminal and then went to the a 400 Class-T fuse that I had in place from my prior batteries. I didn’t want to rewire everything then so I just used it which was a bit of overkill. The plan this time is to still use an 300A MRBF fuse on each battery and remove the additional Class-T fuse. The Lynx Shunt also requires a 325A CNN fuse. Maybe a bit much with fusing but It helps me sleep better at night and it’s my money being spent.

The reason for the additional Lynx Distributor is that I have quite a few additional items that I’m installing and rewiring. Before I was pressed for space which I still am but by eliminating the jump seats will gain some space but prior had to install MRBF fuses at the end of the Lynx Distributor to gain additional connections. The Lynx Distributors will have two Victron MPPT 100/50’s (roof & ground arrays), two Victron 50A Orions XS’, Victron Multiplus Inverter 3K and two 12v fuse panels.

I was on the fence on converting to 24v but that would require additional equipment and replacement of the two Orion 50A XS’ that I already have. However, Victron is suppose to come out with an Orion XS 1400 watt soon during the 1st quarter. I’m also still on the fence and might swap out the Multiplus 3k for a 12V Quattro 5k if I can make the space work. I installed the prior system with 4/0 cable which is still in place and what the Quattro 5K would require. Again, they have a 24v 5k Multiplus II but will require buying additional equipment. Currently I have 6 AWG SOOW cable going from the inverter to the electrical panel. The Quattro 5K would require 2 AWG but I wouldn’t plan on enabling the Power Assist function on the Quattro so it would be limited to the 50A’s and keep the 6 AWG.

Another thing that I’m the fence about are master cutoff switches since these batteries already have on/off switches. If I do have the space, I might install one on each battery + cable going to the power in. Unlike the Lynx BMS the Lynx Shunt doesn’t have a way to shut off the system so If your batteries don’t have an on/off switch you need to figure out how to install one especially if you’re incorporating the Lynx Power In into a system.

For now these are just my initial plans and can/will change on demand depending on if I can make it work.



https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2...msterdam-2024/



Pic of the prior setup fusing. The MRBF fuses are under the protectors.

[os1r1s]

I'm planning to add the 6006 cutoff switches at each battery. When I talked to Epoch, they talked about the BMS not liking activity on the circuit when its off. I don't have any more information than that. I also want to be able to remove one at will (warranty or service). The reason I am thinking about adding the MRBF fuse is to protect the 5ft run from the battery to the Lynx power-in. I could also just add the fuses to the Lynx power-in, but then the switch and 5ft run would only be protected by 400A. Also, Epoch suggested it would be much easier to replace an MRBF fuse than having to take apart the battery case. I am planning to fuse the Lynx Shunt at 325A like you. I can see a reason the draw (or charge) should be that high.


Can you tell me a bit more about your dual Orion setups? I'm considering one myself. My situation is a little different (Travel Trailer and Truck), but I'm sure I could learn from your experience with that.


Also, how many connections were you able to put on each of the distributor slots? I don't really want to add a second one, but it seems like it would make it very tidy. I have about 6 connections now.

[kb0zke]

StogieMan, I went with the 24V on my previous SOB. I was on the fence, too, and got talked into going the 24V route. Worked fine, but I suspect that it cost me a few hundred dollars over the 12V route. I'm going to go 12V this time around, partly for money and partly for space.

[StogieMan]

Originally Posted by os1r1s

I'm planning to add the 6006 cutoff switches at each battery. When I talked to Epoch, they talked about the BMS not liking activity on the circuit when its off. I don't have any more information than that. I also want to be able to remove one at will (warranty or service). The reason I am thinking about adding the MRBF fuse is to protect the 5ft run from the battery to the Lynx power-in. I could also just add the fuses to the Lynx power-in, but then the switch and 5ft run would only be protected by 400A. Also, Epoch suggested it would be much easier to replace an MRBF fuse than having to take apart the battery case. I am planning to fuse the Lynx Shunt at 325A like you. I can see a reason the draw (or charge) should be that high.


Can you tell me a bit more about your dual Orion setups? I'm considering one myself. My situation is a little different (Travel Trailer and Truck), but I'm sure I could learn from your experience with that.


Also, how many connections were you able to put on each of the distributor slots? I don't really want to add a second one, but it seems like it would make it very tidy. I have about 6 connections now.

The Orion XS setup story has been a work in progress. I first started out with one older Victron 50A Buck Boost and then went to two in parallel. Both worked great but the only PITA with the older buck boost was that you needed a PC to program it by connecting a cable to it. Tough to get to it to do any updating and no Victron communications whatsoever. I ended up adding a second Victron Smart Shunt programmed as a DC meter to be able to see the alternator info on our GX device. This worked out but not an ideal setup.

Of course they came out with the new 50A Orions XS with all the bells and whistles including easy programming and Victron Comms so I installed two. I already had the wiring in place so that it was pretty much a drop in replacement. One thing to note is that the Orion XS does produce some heat so I ended up adding some fans and Victron Battery Sense’s to them to monitor the temp. With a travel trailer I don’t think that yours will get that hot and require that but I run both a full throttle when on the road.

Victron Orion XS Install information here on posts #’s 199, 200 & 222
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...234941-10.html


As for the Lynx Distributor, I was able to add six connections to it with a double ended MRBF fuse holder. Yes, it won’t look that clean like with an additional distributor but it will work fine. Below is a an Explorist Life video on how to do it and I also linked on how I did mine.


My additional MRBF Install on post # 180 & 181
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...234941-10.html


Explorist Life MRBF Fuse Install:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9n01vuGDgM

[StogieMan]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

StogieMan, I went with the 24V on my previous SOB. I was on the fence, too, and got talked into going the 24V route. Worked fine, but I suspect that it cost me a few hundred dollars over the 12V route. I'm going to go 12V this time around, partly for money and partly for space.

Haha, it all depends on the day and how I’m feeling. I keep flip flopping on 12v vs 24v. I’m constantly going through all the pros and cons in my head and one day I’m good with the 24V and the other day I say 12V.