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**GCinSC2** · 06-11-2019, 07:39 AM

Engine oil analysis is a sample of your used engine oil going to a lab and they analyze and report on wear metals, contaminants and iirc fuel in oil also.

A good way to get data on engine health might be a good thing. I’ve had several done on my Cummins.

Example https://www.genosgarage.com/product/cc2525/oil-filters

85MH325 · 06-11-2019, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

No and I've never heard of that. I'll ask about it.

And I'm going to PM you on that point also, because there are a few things that I can't say publicly on this engine issue.

I just had this one done at my oil change on my "new-to-me" '04 Interstate just to get a base line. Unfortunately, I don't know when last the oil was changed nor do I know what oil was used. Those are important in a chemical analysis because the lab knows what additives each oil has when they report.

But the over-all rating was good. I'll sample it again in another 5k miles.

InterBlog · 06-11-2019, 03:42 PM

Million Mile Sprinter is strongly in favor of this oil testing regime mentioned here.

Crap, I wish I had known earlier. Why did this not come up on the forums before now?! I've been here for almost five flippin' years, people!

On our new engine, we will be doing it religiously. It's 20-ish more bucks. Well worth it, if it yields any useful info of any kind.

Boxster1971 · 06-11-2019, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Million Mile Sprinter is strongly in favor of this oil testing regime mentioned here.

Crap, I wish I had known earlier. Why did this not come up on the forums before now?! I've been here for almost five flippin' years, people!

On our new engine, we will be doing it religiously. It's 20-ish more bucks. Well worth it, if it yields any useful info of any kind.

Probably because most on this forum are not that deep into their Sprinters. It has been discussed regularly on the Sprinter-Source forum. Here is one of the latest threads:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=73716

Good luck with your new engine.

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

.... It has been discussed regularly on the Sprinter-Source forum. ....

That thread is in the NCV3 section, which I never read. I've never seen it in the T1N section. I don't religiously keep up with that forum, but I'm probably there at least once every week or two, on average.

xrvr · 06-12-2019, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Million Mile Sprinter is strongly in favor of this oil testing regime mentioned here.

Crap, I wish I had known earlier. Why did this not come up on the forums before now?! I've been here for almost five flippin' years, people!

On our new engine, we will be doing it religiously. It's 20-ish more bucks. Well worth it, if it yields any useful info of any kind.

There used to be a forum......the sprinter forum. Might still exist.

xrvr · 06-12-2019, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Probably because most on this forum are not that deep into their Sprinters. It has been discussed regularly on the Sprinter-Source forum. Here is one of the latest threads:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=73716

Good luck with your new engine.

Yes that is the forum!!

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

... A proper pattern should show the flower pattern in the piston bowl only. With the flower pattern outside of the bowl shows that the injector timing was too advanced / or early.... And this is how a diesel engine died and the warranty was denied.

Back to this issue for an additional comment - of the 3 mechanics who have weighed in on this thing, the one who is actually replacing the engine told me that if it had been a bad injector, I would have heard it. It would have been an unmistakable sound.

My ears are on that thing constantly, and I heard nothing at all unusual (and I have Joel Sell's almost-daily Instagram posts to inform me what a proper-sounding T1N is like). Obviously, you can hear the engine in post #1 in this thread (with the video of it shaking), and there is no unusual undertone or pinging-type sound there. But of course, by the time that video was shot, compression was already lost on #1, so maybe it would not be still audible, if it had been there (which it wasn't).

The other two mechanics did not declare the flower pattern to represent anything diagnostic in and of itself.

FWIW. It's the usual thing - mechanics, like doctors, don't always agree on the diagnosis. They agree on the observations, just not what they signify.

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 05:09 AM

Speaking of that mechanic, I found this to be enchanting. A few days after I had Uber'd to the local airport and flew back to Houston, I had to return to Austin with my other van (Sienna) to unload the Interstate of my clothes, nine pairs of shoes, and other personal effects. (Nine pairs of shoes because I had to carry everything from casual to dressy and in between).

It was a Saturday and almost no mechanics were on duty - mine was not. I covered up the whole scene with photographs inside our engine and outside, just because sometimes we don't know until after the fact what we might need in the way of documentation. Better to photograph the hell out of the entire thing, in case some new facts are unearthed later and we need to go back and check something that had presented itself.

Anyway, look at this - I've been in plenty of repair bays, but I've never seen this before. See how the mechanic had fashioned hardware skids out of three empty antifreeze jugs, laid on their sides with openings cut into them. One right, one left*, and one general (*to segregate hardware removed from the right and left sides of the Sprinter front end respectively). Plus the injectors all laid out in a line on the table with grease pencil to mark which is which.

Organization bodes well for quality of work. Using empty jugs this way is brilliant.

85MH325 · 06-12-2019, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

The other two mechanics did not declare the flower pattern to represent anything diagnostic in and of itself.

FWIW. It's the usual thing - mechanics, like doctors, don't always agree on the diagnosis. They agree on the observations, just not what they signify.

Boy, ain't THAT the truth!

It would be interesting to know if the other four cylinders exhibited that same kind of pattern (or not.) If not, it would certainly indicate that something different was occuring in that cylinder for some time.

If they all exhibit similar patterning, then it's possible it may not be as important as evidence of causality.

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 05:14 AM

...and here we see a couple of the "out with the old, in with the new" pics the mechanic has been sending me, as he is doing this work. Smart phones are wonderful devices, aren't they?

My husband looked at this and said, "Huh - he removed it with the transmission still attached - I guess that makes sense, although I hadn't given it any thought before."

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Boy, ain't THAT the truth!

It would be interesting to know if the other four cylinders exhibited that same kind of pattern (or not.) If not, it would certainly indicate that something different was occuring in that cylinder for some time.

If they all exhibit similar patterning, then it's possible it may not be as important as evidence of causality.

None of the mechanics have commented to me on *how long* they think would be required for that pattern to develop, even if it were a unique pattern.

So in other words, if something unusual had happened to this engine for whatever reason, could this solely represent that ACUTE condition, or can that pattern only happen because of a CHRONIC condition?

Answer unknown, or at least not agreed to.

There's no doubt whatsoever that SOME kinds of engine metal markings can happen extremely fast (witness my #1 piston with a fissure straight through it). But beyond that, I have no further compelling information at this point.

85MH325 · 06-12-2019, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

None of the mechanics have commented to me on *how long* they think would be required for that pattern to develop, even if it were a unique pattern.

So in other words, if something unusual had happened to this engine for whatever reason, could this solely represent that ACUTE condition, or can that pattern only happen because of a CHRONIC condition?

Indeed... my curiosity is about whether that patterning was happening across all five cylinders, or just in the one that failed. If it was happening across all five, it may not be as indicative of "something" as if it were just in the one.

The old Sesame Street saw... "One of these things is not like the others!"

Of course, if it only occurred in the cylinder with the cracked piston, you'd still need to find an authoratative source to interpret what, if anything, that it means... but it would be a clue as to what to investigate further. Even then, there's probably nothing that could have been done differently, but... you know... "Enquiring Minds Want to Know!" Curiosity is insatiable.

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Indeed... my curiosity is about whether that patterning was happening across all five cylinders, or just in the one that failed. ....

Ambiguous. I had trouble photographing the other 4 cylinders because the other pistons were pushed down into the engine block. Importantly, the appearance of the pattern (visual intensity) varies depending on the angle of the photograph, flash setting, etc. The pattern is easiest to see using a low camera angle, and almost disappears when the camera is perpendicular to the scene. With the other pistons being pushed down, what resulted = no view whatsoever using the more-telling low camera angle. So it was hard to hold these variables constant, even though I was conscious of the fact that I was trying to get the most accurate photos possible.

The pattern appears strongest on #1 (which obviously was the easiest to photograph because of its position). But there appear to be splotchy patterns on #2 and #4 as well. As for what that signifies, I don't know.

InterBlog · 06-12-2019, 08:53 AM

Oh, BTW, just to make the point once again about how closely the algorithms are tracking our self-generated internet content, this meme appeared in my Instagram feed yesterday:

wachuko · 06-12-2019, 09:54 AM

^^

InterBlog · 06-13-2019, 12:14 PM

BTW, our mechanic refuses to reinstall this shiny brass device (aftermarket oil drain valve). He informed me that he is leaving it in my cup holder. If we want to take on the liability of reinstalling ourselves at the next oil change, we can.

Fair enough. He doesn't believe these are sufficiently reliable to use.

wachuko · 06-13-2019, 12:18 PM

I use a magnetic plug instead... was eyeing those valves... if only for the ease of draining with a hose and without the need of tools to open the valve...

Guess I will stick with the magnetic plug then... it only takes a couple more seconds to remove and get my hands and concrete splashed with hot black staining engine oil...

There have been reports of the valve opening while in motion... I see folks using a tie wrap or wire to secure them... The plastic lock they provide does not seem to be secure enough.

Let me see if I can find the photos of alternate ways to secure them...

Edit: two examples attached

InterBlog · 06-15-2019, 05:58 AM

THURSDAY: Last-minute work meeting called in Austin on Friday 9 a.m. Because of the Boeing Max issue, no flights available from Houston. Had to drive my Sienna.

FRIDAY: Completed the meeting, headed over to Freightliner to get the Interstate. Staff agreed to let me park my Sienna inside their fenceline until I could make arrangements to get it back to Houston.

Checked the Interstate engine myself thoroughly, for about 30 minutes before leaving. Valves clicking like my dog's toenails as she mad-dashes across our ceramic tile floor, but I don't know what a brand new T1N engine is supposed to sound like, so I accept this.

Got about 12 miles down the road, temp starts spiking VERY quickly, like BOOM, dash LCD information strip glaring at me with uncharacteristic orange malevolence and flashing HI, HI, HI (meaning engine temperature is too high).

Immediately bail onto shoulder of highway (dangerous!). Phone mechanic to let them know I'm returning.

Drive back very slowly, no high turbo. Unpack everything back into the Sienna and leave the Interstate with them.

On my way back to Houston Friday afternoon: Mechanic struggles to find the problem, can't believe there's anything wrong with the engine. First thinks it's too much oil (no, I told him, I checked it myself THREE TIMES before leaving their parking lot - it was correct to within the ounce). Etc. He goes back to work on it.

Calls me about an hour later to tell me that the engine had been shipped to him from the manufacturer with the wrong dipstick placed in it. Because of that, the oil had been grossly over-filled. He re-road-tested it for about 30 miles, including high turbo, and found no further evidence of overheating.

SATURDAY: Today we will try again to collect it. Husband will be chasing, in case anything else happens.