EMS-PT30X Permanent install inside AI, Still portable, Quick connect/disconnect

[Alex AVI]

EMS-PT30X Permanent install inside AI, Still portable, Quick connect/disconnect. Functions as hardwired, yet removes/transfers in a jiffy.

[wachuko]

Can you explain what you did? What you had to modify? Looks like you removed the wood enclosure around water heater...

Details man! Details!

[Titus]

Looks nice, but am trying to figure out when you want to be able to easily remove it by simply unplugging it. Is there some situation when one would not want the EMS installed? Far as I am aware it does good in some situations but does no harm in any situation. Can/does it fail in a way that keeps it from delivering power when in fact everything is OK? And if so, how does one know that everything is really OK, and it is just the EMS that is wrong?

[wachuko]

Titus, guessing it is in case it fails to be able to bypass.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by wachuko

Can you explain what you did? What you had to modify? Looks like you removed the wood enclosure around water heater...

Details man! Details!

WACHUKO - Sorry I was so tired yesterday after an all night marathon wiring job, I feel asleep on couch watching college football
1. Remove wood enclosure to originally vacuum inside that area and check for any wiring tidying that I wanted to do. Got that done.
2. Disconnect shore power input connections into ATS (Hot, N, Gnd)
3. Connect shore power connections to new 30A standard outlet and box.
4. Mount new outlet/box on floor.
5. Open up EMS-PT30X to rotate it's plug 90° so it faces the floor when it is mounted sideways.
6. Disconnect ATS Gen input & ATS output to Power Center to route out of the way of the place where the EMS-PTX30 would sit and so the ATS can move up couple inches. Intentionally raise it only enough for EMS-PT30X to snugly fit and be secured even when travelling but without needing to fabricate more mounting brackets. The design of the EMS-PT30X watertight rubber seals is such that it sticks out the sides of its case. That provides more than enough friction hold onto the alu ATS box that it stays firmly in place under the worst conditions. It requires about 10-15ft.lbs. pull to slide in/out.
7. Slide EMS-PT30X under ATS box.
8. Reconnect ATS Gen & Output wires.
9. Cut short piece of 30A flex outdoor cord and install on ATS shore power input.
10. Install new 30A plug on short cord.
11. Plug into new receptacle/box mounted on floor.
12. Route new holes/notches on wooden enclosure as needed for cords. Left out for now to take these pics.

Originally Posted by Titus

Looks nice, but am trying to figure out when you want to be able to easily remove it by simply unplugging it. Is there some situation when one would not want the EMS installed? Far as I am aware it does good in some situations but does no harm in any situation. Can/does it fail in a way that keeps it from delivering power when in fact everything is OK? And if so, how does one know that everything is really OK, and it is just the EMS that is wrong?

TITUS - I have thought about this a lot before deciding to purchase portable vs. hardwired version.
1. Any EMS/Surge protection device is considered a "sacrificial component". Just like a fuse, it is designed to absorb the "hits" and get "destroyed" so the components downstream are protected.
2. If I wired in a hardwired device, I would spend the same effort and still only have a non-portable, non-easily-transferrable device. If the hardwired device got hit, you have bypass capability BUT in order to repair, you still need to either repair in current location or remove to repair on bench. It is so tight under that area, especially with my permanent mid-shelf, I don't ever want to contort my small 5'5" 145lb. skinny body in there. I can't imagine a 6'2" person having a better time. That was why it took a long time to install. And I did not want to undo h20 heater connections. That would've been just as tedious.
3. Prior to AI, we used to go to campgrounds in state parks tenting but with 20A power hookups. We still do when we are doing 4x4 off-roading. I don't have to buy a 2nd portable unit. 2 wood screws for decor panel & unplug unit for me to transfer to my F150.
4. If we go camping in winter where snow could be expected, we take the 4x4, especially up in Mt. Charleston 8,500ft. asl or Lake Tahoe. Not yet comfortable subjecting AI to those conditions until I get very experienced using it.
4. Considering it's location, even though it's inside, being close to seating area/galley, I honestly prefer the weatherproof enclosure compared to hardwired. I wished the other components in the electrical box had similar enclosures. Though, we avoid drinks aft of galley.

[Boxster1971]

ALEX - nice work. It gives me the idea that I could wire in my hardware unit the same way so it could easily be removed if it got destroyed by a nasty surge. But in over three years of using my hard wired unit it's still working fine. I like the remote display with a by-pass switch I have now. Most of the issues I've had with external power have been low voltage. My Progressive EMS will cut power when below 104V. The remote display shows a code for the specific problem when it cuts power.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

But in over three years of using my hard wired unit it's still working fine. I like the remote display with a by-pass switch I have now. Most of the issues I've had with external power have been low voltage. My Progressive EMS will cut power when below 104V. The remote display shows a code for the specific problem when it cuts power.

MIKE - Yeah, all this work was probably my big guarantee that my EMS-PT30X would work forever. Which ain't a bad deal.

My last stay a month ago at Pomona KOA had an open ground. So, a major destructive fault is not out of the realm of reality.

BTW - checked circuitry inside the unit and I could easily wire a 2nd remote led display but I can see the leds display through the bottom notch cutout on the wood panel that protects the heater heater.

[Titus]

Alex
Thanks for the detailed explanation. We have no use for the EMS other than in Titus, so I hadn't thought about easy removability from that perspective.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Titus

Alex
Thanks for the detailed explanation. We have no use for the EMS other than in Titus, so I hadn't thought about easy removability from that perspective.

TITUS - Hey I did not know TITUS was the rig name. EYECHIP already named his NELSON and he only had his couple months. I guess I better get on the ball and find nice/suitable name for mine Didnt cross my mind til now.

[HHPJ]

Would you want an extraordinary EMS electrical Event, like a lightning strike, to happen inside or outside your AS?

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by HHPJ

Would you want an extraordinary EMS electrical Event, like a lightning strike, to happen inside or outside your AS?

HHPJ - I understand your question, after all I am an electrical engineer and designed/serviced computer mainframe power systems for 30 yrs. If you have not read through my prior detailed comments, here are my reasons for this work - I did so to have the advantage of portability because we can transfer from AI to my other vehicles, but keep it inside for safety and not forget at campground or getting stolen. At same time, it is wired just like an in-line hardwired device is wired. Every choice has risks - it is always a balancing act between the risks & benefits. For my use, this works really well. For your use, it seems it won't, so you don't need to consider it.

The way I see it, if at some future time your concern presents an overwhelming danger to my occupants, then I would think of putting it outside. But for now, I do have the OPTION to easily do both since I have already invested my time to do the re-wire. Not many can say that. At my whim, I can leave it inside all the time or I can leave at park hookup panel all the time, or I can even decide based on time of day, weather conditions, park location, and setup time available for me as to which mode I want it in. Or I can decide to leave it at home and buy a hardwired unit (smaller with remote display) and plug it in to the outlets I have already pre-wired by simply adding a plug/outlet to the new hardwired unit. This provides me options that the either-or-choice does not. I am in no way saying outside/portable or inside/hardwired is better than the other. That's for you to decide. That's why the manufacturer's offer both choices. I decided to take advantage of both.

[GCinSC2]

Just a discussion question.

If a surge protector takes a head on strike hit does it just go poof internally or is it a external explosion how do we cleanup this mess event?

And if it is the latter then why do mfgrs make the internal version?

First hand knowledge no BS please.

Gary

[rmkrum]

If you take a solid lightning strike everything electrical will be a) toast and b) most likely on fire. We took a direct hit on our big steel and concrete building. Air conditioning was high point on roof and immediately caught fire. Phone system power supplies surge protection had burned out, exploded parts rattling around inside. I would bet a surge protector will have a similar fate. You can only hope that the case will contain the damage.
Lightning is very unpredictable at best. We got lucky. Replaced air conditioning unit and phone power supplies. Nothing else damaged.

[Boxster1971]

I don’t think these EMS protection devices will NOT withstand a direct lightning strike. My brothers house was struck by lightning last year. Everything attached to the phone lines was toast, phones and DSL modem. It melted much of wiring in house and adjacent garage. It blew holes in concrete garage floor and started a fire in house. The house was destroyed. He now has a new home built on same site after the old one was demolished and removed. Fortunately no one was hurt. Lightning is more powerful than most people realize.

[Lotus54]

Back when I worked telecom, we had a lot of direct lightning hits- mostly on antennas.
It would blast right through all the lightning protection, get in to the power and trash the gear.
Sometimes we would be lucky. One site we had two solar regulators (shunt) one for each panel. lightning hit one panel, blew up the regulator, but the other one and panel kept working. Keeping the site up.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I don’t think these EMS protection devices will NOT withstand a direct lightning strike. My brothers house was struck by lightning last year. Everything attached to the phone lines was toast, phones and DSL modem. It melted much of wiring in house and adjacent garage. It blew holes in concrete garage floor and started a fire in house. The house was destroyed. He now has a new home built on same site after the old one was demolished and removed. Fortunately no one was hurt. Lightning is more powerful than most people realize.

Geez - typed this in too late last night. I meant to say that I don’t think these EMS devices will protect you from a direct lightning strike.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Just a discussion question.

If a surge protector takes a head on strike hit does it just go poof internally or is it a external explosion how do we cleanup this mess event?

And if it is the latter then why do mfgrs make the internal version?

First hand knowledge no BS please.

Gary

GARY - +1 on what RMKRUM & MIKE said. When I was in the field many decades ago, installing a mainframe for an un-named aerospace contractor - their big site was in the middle of the desert. It did not take a direct hit but close enough. It was the diesel gen that took the hit during our 1-week systems burn in period. The protection & isolation devices did their job of protecting the equipment ELECTRICALLY, but the resulting physical destruction, fire & projectiles generated by the disintegrating gen can not be prevented by those devices (whether installed inside or outside the building). A direct or even indirect strike but close enough to life & property, is likely to destroy & kill something, if not everything around it. Also, windows in the computer room shattered (close to the inside geographic center of building). The sonic blast & because computer room glass partitions are not as strong as outside windows - just blew up.

That was when we started to spec Lexan panels for Mission Critical Enterprise computing room environments The computers survived the surge coz it never saw any. But because all the windows were compromised and dust particles all over the place, a lot of the disc drive filters clogged up and consequently the disc heads landed on the platters & crashed because there was no air pressure to keep them afloat. If this scenario happened near any rv, whether the EMS was in the rv or 10ft outside on the campground pole, it would've been the difference of us being "dead now" or being "dead before now"

Since I know zippo about how much energy 1 single bolt of lightning carries, my Google search says - 5 billion joules over 10 micro secs or 500 Trillion watts. Contrast that to the EMS PT30X surge protect specs of ONLY 1,790 joules or 179 Million watts over the same 10 mic secs surge. So the average single lightning bolt carries 2.79 Million times more energy than what the EMS PT30X can handle. It is clearly not made for such surge. It is only made for the type of surges generated and propagated via energy company or infrastructure issues.

Analogy is the AI front bumper. You wont damage anything if you tap that parked car at the mall parking lot, but it may deploy your airbag. The airbag would still deploy on a head-on collision with a bullet train. But there would probably be no pieces of such AI to recover.

[rmkrum]

Lightning is pretty much the irresistible force in most situations. An EMS is really just a way to prevent smallish utility surges from zapping stuff.
For lightning, the only hope is to survive the experience with minimal injury. Hardware is a write-off when you get a direct hit. Even a close hit can induce a heck of a surge in wiring. It’s like a smallish EMP bomb going off nearby. Not that easy to survive under the best of circumstances. Mil-spec stuff might survive, consumer-grade will assuredly not.
For humans, if you are lucky, you will be deaf and your ears will ring for weeks on a close hit. Direct hit, you may never know what hit you, and survival is in doubt without prompt and expert medical intervention.
Mother Nature is not a nice person...

[GCinSC2]

Then maybe a decent practice in a thunder storm would be to disconnect from shore power completely.

A bit distracted here at home, we’re in Florence watch. In the path but a bit inland.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Then maybe a decent practice in a thunder storm would be to disconnect from shore power completely.

A bit distracted here at home, we’re in Florence watch. In the path but a bit inland.

GCINSC2 - That may be a BEST practice also. Good suggestion, hopefully I have presence of mind to remember. Best to you in riding out Florence. This a big one.