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Old 01-20-2020, 07:48 PM   #1
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DPF DEF Delete

Has anyone here deleted the DPF system?

Check engine light went on and found that have bad DEF heater. Not about to spend $2500 to repair and out of warranty anyway.

And if so how much, what tuner, exhaust system?
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:47 PM   #2
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Has anyone here deleted the DPF system?

Check engine light went on and found that have bad DEF heater. Not about to spend $2500 to repair and out of warranty anyway.

And if so how much, what tuner, exhaust system?
The DEF heater has nothing to do with the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). The DEF system injects the Diesel Exhaust Fluid in the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction).
https://www.dieselforum.org/about-cl...el/what-is-scr

Had same issue on my Interstate last year - was also out of warranty. Replaced the DEF heater before winter set in. Not much different than having to replace the catalytic converter on a gas vehicle. I had to replace both the main battery and cat on my 2001 Prius before I sold it last year.

If you try to eliminate the emissions systems on your Sprinter it will likely become very troublesome. It will also cost more than just fixing the DEF heater. Depending on where you live it would not pass required emissions tests. Resale value will be reduced or even making it impossible to sell. It could just become junk.

Finally it is illegal and most tuners have been shut down in USA by EPA.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:57 PM   #3
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Not to mention it fouls the air for drivers behind you. Do you have such little care for others? the DEF and DPF keep the air clean, so I respectfully ask you to keep it functioning. If you don't want to mess with it, get a gasoline powered RV. If you're worried about the cost, fix it yourself. If you play with diesel, sometimes you have to pay.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:38 PM   #4
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For the love of god please don't remove critical and essential pollution controls from your sprinter. You choose to drive a diesel (like I do), it comes with costs in exchange for the benefits. It is what it is.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
The DEF heater has nothing to do with the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). The DEF system injects the Diesel Exhaust Fluid in the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction).

https://www.dieselforum.org/about-cl...el/what-is-scr



Had same issue on my Interstate last year - was also out of warranty. Replaced the DEF heater before winter set in. Not much different than having to replace the catalytic converter on a gas vehicle. I had to replace both the main battery and cat on my 2001 Prius before I sold it last year.



If you try to eliminate the emissions systems on your Sprinter it will likely become very troublesome. It will also cost more than just fixing the DEF heater. Depending on where you live it would not pass required emissions tests. Resale value will be reduced or even making it impossible to sell. It could just become junk.



Finally it is illegal and most tuners have been shut down in USA by EPA.


So how much did it cost to fix yours?
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:12 AM   #6
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Info on the DEF heater so we're on the same page:

The DEF heater is generally in the DEF tank and prevents freezing when temperatures are below 20 F or so (the ideal solution of 32.5% Urea freezes at 12 F) when in operation and it quickly thaws the tank and lines after the vehicle is started when below the freezing point. Though DEF solutions expand (7%), nearly as much as pure ice (9%), the tanks and lines are flexible so no damage occurs. DEF is part of SCR technology and reacts with NOx, the precursors to Ozone and "Smog" but SCR also allows the engine to be optimized so the particulate filter and combustion work more efficiently. You can get a new heater online for as little as $250 and install it yourself without too much trouble.

Now you can reason that if your vehicle never experiences freezing temperatures, you don't need the heater, but there will be knock on effects to a non functional SCR.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:11 AM   #7
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I would get rid of those systems. These systems are what makes trucks so expensive and unreliable. If you are rich and can afford to buy a new truck every 100k miles then keep the stuff on there and sell the truck right out of warranty. If you can delete these systems in states that don't check emissions then go for it. Often times the EPA never balances the equation from end to end like the ethanol boon doogle that uses more oil to produce than it is worth. Solar farms and wind farms that have much higher environmental impact than they are telling you. You have to weigh environmental harm to economic hard ship. Pollution systems that decrease reliability and increase cost should not be allowed. The government should help find new ways to reduce pollution with little impact to the consumer. Instead they impose impossible standards and you are left holding the bag. I would not own a diesel truck unless it is all mechanical. I am not sure I would take one if you gave it to me since they are such a pain to deal with. It is like owning an Italian sports car. 1 day driving it a week in the shop.



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Old 01-21-2020, 08:17 AM   #8
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Emission controls account for less than 4% of the gross cost of trucks and it plus the ongoing maintenance represents the cost to the consumer for the privilege of dumping exhaust into the air for someone else (behind them) to breath and get in their eyes and nose. Since individual polluters do not bear the environmental cost of their acts, regulations are required to ensure those costs are distributed to those that pollute.

Removing and advising others to remove pollution controls is short sighted and selfish.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:27 AM   #9
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So how much did it cost to fix yours?

About the same $2,500 you mentioned. The DEF tank is right above the Airstream installed electric step under the sliding door. They will have to drop the step assembly to get at the DEF tank. The tank must be removed as the heater assembly is on top of the tank.

I had my Check Engine light come on in the late summer. Kept driving it with no issues until my next service in the fall. I needed to get it fixed for the winter in Maryland as it freezes the DEF occasionally. I donít know what happens if DEF is frozen and canít work properly. It would likely go into Limp mode.

Good luck,
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:10 AM   #10
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Got ours replaced just last week, for $2k.
Iím mostly miffed to be grossly overcharged to put DEF back into the tank at $5 a quart!
They charged $50 for 2 1/2 gallons when I can buy the same amount for $12.50 at Wally W. or $3 a gallon bulk at a truck stop!
Am waiting for the service mgr to call me back.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:03 AM   #11
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Diesel truck repair, best retirement plan on earth. There is one born every minute. Next best is CVT transmission repair.



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Old 01-21-2020, 12:59 PM   #12
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On my 2014 model the cost last was $1547. I removed the step before taking in which saved $200.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:06 PM   #13
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Got ours replaced just last week, for $2k.

Iím mostly miffed to be grossly overcharged to put DEF back into the tank at $5 a quart!

They charged $50 for 2 1/2 gallons when I can buy the same amount for $12.50 at Wally W. or $3 a gallon bulk at a truck stop!

Am waiting for the service mgr to call me back.

That invoice shows they charged you for 10 - 1/2 gallon bottles of OEM Mercedes DEF that come in those fancy bottles with the shut-off valves. That would be 5 gallons of DEF - the tank capacity. Still expensive at $10/gallon. The smaller packaging is always more expensive.

You should ask them for the empty bottles as the can be refilled and are very convenient for topping off the tank. They are over $18 each at EuroParts. You got them for a good price.

https://m.eeuroparts.com/Parts/50101...lon-0005830107
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:39 PM   #14
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uh-oh

"DPF DEF Delete
Has anyone here deleted the DPF system?

Check engine light went on and found that have bad DEF heater. Not about to spend $2500 to repair and out of warranty anyway.

And if so how much, what tuner, exhaust system?"

Looks like you asked on the wrong forum. I am sure there are other forums (sprinter/dodge/mb) where you may find answers to your questions. Yes, you can do dpf/def/egr deletes to your vehicle.(Not sure about def delete, but certain about dpf/egr deletes and tuners). Probably improve mileage too.I know these are done on diesel pickup trucks often.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:46 PM   #15
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For the love of god please don't remove critical and essential pollution controls from your sprinter. You choose to drive a diesel (like I do), it comes with costs in exchange for the benefits. It is what it is.
I got the spiel that I could eliminate my DEF system on the GMC Denali.... and promptly called the state inspections office where I found out that I might get away with it IF it was a farm truck that never was ticketed for failure to have an inspection sticker, but that to pass an inspection I would have to reinstall it. I went to the dealer and reported the name of the business which offered to do that work. They are still in business. No longer offer "shortcuts" and apparently got.a real education regarding emissions regs.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:33 PM   #16
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Whatever you choose to do, at least be informed of the potential consequences.

From the EPA website:

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clea...se-resolutions

""The (Clean Air) Act and its implementing regulations also contain various requirements concerning testing, reporting, recordkeeping, warranty, labeling, tampering, defeat devices, and vehicle and engine maintenance and alterations. EPA enforces the vehicle and engine provisions of Title II of the Clean Air Act and regulations at 40 C. F. R. Parts 85, 86, 88 through 94, 600, and 1033 through 1068.

EPA may seek civil penalties or injunctive relief (including remediation of the violations and projects to offset excess emissions) for violations of the Act and regulations, and may bring cases in federal district court or through an administrative process. Enforcement actions include cases against a variety of parties, including manufacturers, importers, distributors, and consultants.

Violators are subject to civil penalties up to $45,268 per noncompliant vehicle or engine, $4,527 per tampering event or sale of defeat device, and $45,268 per day for reporting and recordkeeping violations. 42 U.S.C. ß 7524; 40 C.F.R. ß 19.4. The EPA often uses the Mobile Source Civil Penalty Policy to arrive at an appropriate civil penalty for vehicle and engine enforcement settlements."
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I got the spiel that I could eliminate my DEF system on the GMC Denali.... and promptly called the state inspections office where I found out that I might get away with it IF it was a farm truck that never was ticketed for failure to have an inspection sticker, but that to pass an inspection I would have to reinstall it. I went to the dealer and reported the name of the business which offered to do that work. They are still in business. No longer offer "shortcuts" and apparently got.a real education regarding emissions regs.
In my county here in Colorado they will not renew your registration unless you have passed immersions. They also have automated / mobile emissions measurement stations they setup and they can also determine if you are out of compliance simply by you driving past the parked / mobile sampling station.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:14 AM   #18
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Some might consider this to be academic and not relevant, but for perspective, I'm wondering just how much NOx is actually prevented by these ever-problematic DEF systems, given that someone raised the cost-benefit question.

The vision of a Sprinter belching out vast quantities of pollution in the absence of the emissions reduction systems is not quite accurate. Up until 2010, this wasn't a priority for the EPA. Our 2006 Sprinter has no such emission controls system on it - it was built that way. This is true of every older Interstate owner on this forum.

For large stationary diesel engines (AP 42 Section 3.4), the EPA's accepted emission factor is 3.2 lb/MMBtu (0.024 lb/hp-hr). If I had time this morning, I could translate that into grasp-able terms, but I've got to get to work.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:29 AM   #19
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Some might consider this to be academic and not relevant, but for perspective, I'm wondering just how much NOx is actually prevented by these ever-problematic DEF systems, given that someone raised the cost-benefit question.

The vision of a Sprinter belching out vast quantities of pollution in the absence of the emissions reduction systems is not quite accurate. Up until 2010, this wasn't a priority for the EPA. Our 2006 Sprinter has no such emission controls system on it - it was built that way. This is true of every older Interstate owner on this forum.
And is further ameliorated by the few actual road-miles motorhome-vans see as opposed to service vans which make up the bulk of new-van deliveries, and the daily miles they operate, at least in the US.

My van, since new in 2004, has driven about 6700 miles/year. That's about 1/10th of what such a van in a commercial service would drive in that time.

But of course there's no way to have different engine smog standards by use or mileage on a particular van. Quite frankly, if the DEF/particulate system was as trouble-free as the catalytic converters on gas engine exhausts have proven to be, I'd have bought one already. As it is, I'll stick with my old, relatively clean, reliable OM-647 T1N for a while.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:42 AM   #20
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NOx emissions are reduced by 85-90% for an individual engine through the combination of Exhaust Gas Re-circulation and Catalytic Reduction using Urea (DEF). In areas that remain non-compliant with EPA clean air standards, the difference by having the bulk of the fleet of medium and large diesel engines with operating EGR and SCR is significant (15-50%) as indicated by the EPA MOVES emissions modeling.

NOx in the air finds its way to NO2, a primary component of the brown haze you often see in non-compliant areas. It reacts with water to form Nitric Acid the main eye irritant in smog.

If you don't want to pay to own and maintain emission equipment, sure get an older vehicle. Newer vehicles come with the owner responsibility to do their part and bear their portion of the cost of generating and preventing pollution for the rest of society. Those who disable, remove, or render inoperable the emission system are cheating, it's as simple as that.
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