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Old 01-26-2020, 01:36 PM   #61
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There are many things that go wrong on a diesel that cost $2500 plus. Probably in a gasser also.

But no, I would not expect the DEF system to be one of them. I thought DEF would be perfectly reliable by now.
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Old 01-26-2020, 01:47 PM   #62
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Hedging my bet, I did get the Ford 8yr/125,000 mile extended warranty. Normally I don't get extended warranties. I suppose that getting the extended warranty doesn't speak well of my confidence in the truck, but I'm going to be retiring soon and am looking to minimize unexpected expenses. Ford extended warranties aren't too bad if you shop around on the Internet. If you take what your dealer offers you're likely paying way too much or you're not getting an actual Ford extended warranty. My Autonation dealer tried sell me an in-house warranty. No thanks.

So far, the truck has been very reliable. Maintenance is DIY and I don't consider it to be any worse than my wife's Hyundai. In some ways, it's easier doing maintenance on the truck since I don't need to jack it up or run it up on ramps to change the oil.

Getting closer to back on topic, I wouldn't have a problem buying a diesel RV if I knew I was going to be doing a lot of mountain passes. Someone suggested that driving a heavy RV or truck/trail with a gas engine is like having a job while driving the same rig with a diesel engine is like taking a vacation. My truck is truly easy to drive. I point it uphill and it does its thing.
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Old 01-26-2020, 02:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
Emission controls account for less than 4% of the gross cost of trucks and it plus the ongoing maintenance represents the cost to the consumer for the privilege of dumping exhaust into the air for someone else (behind them) to breath and get in their eyes and nose. Since individual polluters do not bear the environmental cost of their acts, regulations are required to ensure those costs are distributed to those that pollute.

Removing and advising others to remove pollution controls is short sighted and selfish.
You sound rather hysterical friend. You need to calm down. Try breathing into a paper bag. " Polution " in today's crazy world is the most subjective issue bar none. The solution to pollution is dilution, a scientific fact.
One Sirocco blowing across the Mediterranean pushes more air born particulates into Europe than all their cars could produce in a year.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:06 PM   #64
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If you can afford a Sprinter you can, most likely, afford to keep the DEF heater working properly. I also imagine that you can afford overpriced Mercedes DEF fluid in tiny little bottles. If you CAN'T afford these things, you probably can't afford the ticket from having your emission system out of compliance. 🙄
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:36 PM   #65
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Def elimination

Yes, You can eliminate you diesel emissions, you can also burn your garbage in a 55 gallon barrel so you don't have to pay for garbage pick-up.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:41 PM   #66
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Good for you!!!
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:12 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by panamerican View Post
------ So on top of the MPG hit from the emission control devices-----
Engines designed to use DEF have much better fuel economy, and DEF is the reason we see 900 lb-ft, double the pre DEF days.

(BTW this is the same story we heard in the 70's when catalytic converters appeared on gas engines. And, because those catalysts allow for performance tuning of gas engines, we see 400hp out of 2.0 liter gassers.)

Prior the DEF, emissions were primarily controlled by lowering combustion temperatures. This meant lower compression ratios, retarded injection timing, and worst of all, ever-increasing EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation).

As e-regs tightened, EGR increased, resulting in the gunk in your intake that kills engines.

SCR and DEF allow engine designers to go for max efficiency - performance, mileage, etc. As an example, that little 3.0 liter Sprinter V6 puts out what 6 to 7 liter diesels did before DEF.

I had a DEF heater go out at @ 65,000 miles, but it didn't initiate a limp-home mode. It was warrantied, but the Dealer asked it I wanted to remove my hitch reinforcement so I wouldn't have a charge (not a Sprinter). I did that.

They also have a tech bulletin that says that sensor and heater problems might be reduced/avoided by keeping the DEF tank topped off.

I don't think an emissions warning light from Any manufacturer would initiate a limp mode, unless you're low on DEF, or the level sensor is bad. The Feds only require limp with low DEF, and I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to make life more complicated than the Feds require.
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:51 AM   #68
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Just had that check engine code come. Up on a cold FLA morning. Dealer stated in tank sensor was bad. 2015 truck with 58k miles. Was replaced under Chevy warranty.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:46 AM   #69
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Fear not Panamerican: EV's will solve all of your problems!!! All of that charging power will come from free sunlight and wind! No more IC engines, no more coal burning, no need for oil and gas. Just charge your EV tow vehicle at any Federal park as you drive across country. What a great world!

Larry

That's why I have one as my daily driver...besides being somewhat Eco-friendly (depending on how the energy is produced that feeds it), it costs me maybe .25 to drive 40 or so miles. If I used my truck, at 15mpg with a tailwind going down hill, same daily commute might be something around $6-$7.

I am very intrigued by the thought of a pure EV as a tow vehicle though.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:04 AM   #70
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Teamaron - to your question has anyone deleted the DPF... I've never heard of anyone deleting just the particulate filter. Usually diesel owners will delete the entire system, which allows you to remove the system from your vehicle. You've heard enough already on how horrible you are if you choose to do that, and how the black-hawk helo's will be chasing you down to impose huge fines if you do. But that is your call as the vehicle owner. Some states do not require diesel's for pass emissions testing for obtaining their Inspection sticker. Like others have said, do your research first. Lots to consider both good and bad.



Also, it was mentioned that folks have seen belches of smoke coming from diesel trucks. That is not necessarily an effect from the vehicle having their system deleted and removed, bad or weak glow plugs or other engine issues can and will cause this. I've seen and own a deleted diesel, and you don't and won't see anything like that from my or many other diesels. Good luck with your situation.
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:37 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by maroth View Post
Teamaron - to your question has anyone deleted the DPF... I've never heard of anyone deleting just the particulate filter. Usually diesel owners will delete the entire system, which allows you to remove the system from your vehicle. You've heard enough already on how horrible you are if you choose to do that, and how the black-hawk helo's will be chasing you down to impose huge fines if you do. But that is your call as the vehicle owner. Some states do not require diesel's for pass emissions testing for obtaining their Inspection sticker. Like others have said, do your research first. Lots to consider both good and bad.



Also, it was mentioned that folks have seen belches of smoke coming from diesel trucks. That is not necessarily an effect from the vehicle having their system deleted and removed, bad or weak glow plugs or other engine issues can and will cause this. I've seen and own a deleted diesel, and you don't and won't see anything like that from my or many other diesels. Good luck with your situation.


I had meant deleting entire system.

And I had a previous diesel that I deleted on a Chevy 2500 with great results.

But to put everyone’s minds at ease I have ordered a new heater for a fraction of the cost the service Dept was about to charge and found a local small shop to do the replacement also for a fraction of the labor charges.

It is a shame though that a vehicle with just over 30,000 miles that I have religiously performed every single service and more on would have this and other issues.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:08 PM   #72
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I'm curious to know if you could even find the parts necessary to do a delete on a vehicle like that. The smaller the population of a vehicle, it would seem there would be even less support for aftermarket parts like that. Then try to find a tuner for that vehicle...
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:33 PM   #73
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You probably won't be able to find someone to do the delete. Big fines involved if caught.
One company fined $1,000,000. They would have fined them more but that would have put the company out of business. Gov't is going after businesses in a big way.
If you do happen to find someone, DO NOT post their or the companies name on any social media web site including this one. You don't want to be responsible for someone losing their livelihood !
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:27 AM   #74
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Doing the delete isn't hard, and the kits are readily available. Here's one source.

http://defdeletekits.com/
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:55 PM   #75
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So the new def heater arrived today

But guess what

Check engine light is OFF!! and everything is running normal

Guess I’ll hold onto in case comes back

I never knew they could heal themselves.
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:29 AM   #76
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Self-healing

That's great news Teamaron... Possibly a false alarm by a sensor of some sort would be my guess. (to that point) The Ford diesel Fx50s have several sensors just on the exhaust system. I have learned that one of those would stop your truck dead if it was activated. Take that driving across the desert in mid-summer. And that is one of the arguments supporting the removal of all that stuff - a well placed $20 sensor programed to shut down your vehicle? I get EPA needs and such, but just like other emerging technologies - does it make sense to do some of it? Some things the owner needs to be in control of (like vehicle maintenance, steering and braking - or driving). IMHO of course (and why I am weary of the black hawk helos ). At least you have the part should you ever need it. Peace!
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:34 AM   #77
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That's great news Teamaron... Possibly a false alarm by a sensor of some sort would be my guess. (to that point) The Ford diesel Fx50s have several sensors just on the exhaust system. I have learned that one of those would stop your truck dead if it was activated. Take that driving across the desert in mid-summer. And that is one of the arguments supporting the removal of all that stuff - a well placed $20 sensor programed to shut down your vehicle? I get EPA needs and such, but just like other emerging technologies - does it make sense to do some of it? Some things the owner needs to be in control of (like vehicle maintenance, steering and braking - or driving). IMHO of course (and why I am weary of the black hawk helos ). At least you have the part should you ever need it. Peace!
Ford issued a software fix for the issue where a sensor would disable the truck. Yes, it did happen, but they subsequently changed how the truck reacts to a failed sensor.
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:21 PM   #78
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Doing the delete isn't hard, and the kits are readily available. Here's one source.

http://defdeletekits.com/
None of the kits listed at that web site have any application to Sprinters. Deletes may not be hard, but they cost almost as much as maintaining a working system.
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:36 PM   #79
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None of the kits listed at that web site have any application to Sprinters. Deletes may not be hard, but they cost almost as much as maintaining a working system.
Agreed. I looked at that site and came to the conclusion that it wasn't very helpful. It was a way for someone to make some click-through money.

I'll go back to what I asked before, which is, "Is a delete kit even available for that specific model?" Then the bonus question to answer is, "Can you find a delete tuner for that specific model?"

Talking about deleting this specific model is just wishful thinking in my opinion and not worth talking about. This thread should die a lonely death.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:46 AM   #80
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Delete kits are out there:


https://www.rawtekinc.com/products/s...dpf-delete-kit
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