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Old 12-03-2016, 10:56 AM   #1
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2019 27' Globetrotter
2019 Interstate Lounge Ext
Rye , New Hampshire
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Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

You pull your 2017 AI into your same heated storage space. Your unit features the Fusion entertainment/gps system.

You shut your engine down, turn off the Fusion system, and make sure you plug your unit in. You're using the same power cord setup you've used on the 2014,5,6 interstates. You verify the cord is lit up - showing power.

You confirm the the master on/off switch for the coach (panel on bathroom wall behind second row seat) ....is turned on, allowing coach fridge, lights to be used if necessary.

Unfortunately, turning coach master on allows power to flow to the Fusion system.....because the Fusion lights up again when you turn the master switch on....so, once again you turn the Fusion system off manually and depart the storage space.

You return to the storage space a week later to find the coach batteries are perfectly fine. Your engine battery is dead - once again.

Service notes:

MB sprinter service confirms BIM and charging systems operating properly.

AS service says there's no problem, but confirm you are leaving the master coach switch in the open position while plugged into electrical. "Affirmative" you mumble, trying to appear in complete control of the situation.

Because you're mature, educated and rational - you don't kill anyone. But, you want to. So you suppress the feeling of rage, and show your maturity by asking for help from smarter (but not necessarily better looking) tribe members of the AI community.

Questions:

Perhaps it's wrong to assume the Fusion unit.

If the Master controls the Fusion unit, how could it affect the engine battery?

Perhaps, moving forward, you just shut the Master off whilst plugged into shore power? In spite of being told you won't be charging the coach batteries in this scenario?


Or, perhaps you just have a bad engine battery, and you're overthinking this...?








2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:21 AM   #2
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Follow up:

Plugged in

Master switch Off
(no power flowing to coach lights, fridge etc.)

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2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:39 PM   #3
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Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottP View Post
Follow up:

Plugged in

Master switch Off
(no power flowing to coach lights, fridge etc.)

Attachment 276308Attachment 276309Attachment 276310Attachment 276311Attachment 276312


2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon

Strange things happen when you are plugged in and have the coach batteries disconnected. Your Magnum meter shows 13.7 volts, but your solar meter is only at 13.0 volts. That might be a situation where the Magnum is showing a no-load voltage from the charger side and the solar is your true battery voltage.

However I can't explain why your chassis/vehicle battery is not kept fully charged by the BIM when plugged in. I'll have a closer look at the 2017 wiring diagrams and see if I notice anything unusual.

Which layout do you have? Lounge, Twin or Grand Tour?

Edit: looked at one of your older posts and see you have a Lounge model.

- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:26 PM   #4
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Scott, you stated
"turning coach master on allows power to flow to the Fusion system.....because the Fusion lights up again when you turn the master switch on....so, once again you turn the Fusion system off manually and depart the storage space"

perhaps the Fusion is tricking a battery saver feature? Most modern vehicles have one.
I would recharge the vehicle battery and leave the master switch off for the amount of time it took to kill the battery or check it within a couple days...otherwise the tech should/could do an amp draw test.
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
Strange things happen when you are plugged in and have the coach batteries disconnected. Your Magnum meter shows 13.7 volts, but your solar meter is only at 13.0 volts. That might be a situation where the Magnum is showing a no-load voltage from the charger side and the solar is your true battery voltage.

However I can't explain why your chassis/vehicle battery is not kept fully charged by the BIM when plugged in. I'll have a closer look at the 2017 wiring diagrams and see if I notice anything unusual.

Which layout do you have? Lounge, Twin or Grand Tour?

Edit: looked at one of your older posts and see you have a Lounge model.

- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter

Thank you Mike!


2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
Strange things happen when you are plugged in and have the coach batteries disconnected. Your Magnum meter shows 13.7 volts, but your solar meter is only at 13.0 volts. That might be a situation where the Magnum is showing a no-load voltage from the charger side and the solar is your true battery voltage.
The Solar battery voltage is adjusted using a trim resistor on its back. That could easily be out of adjustment. Mine was not as bad but I still had to adjust it. And even then, couldn't get it to agree across the full voltage range.

That said, I have not seen them this far apart from each other.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:30 PM   #7
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My 2017 is draining the engine battery too. I noticed the Fusion is not really off when you push and hold the power button to turn off. The sound is off and the screen goes black but if you shine a flashlight on the screen at an angle you will see the LED screen is still on and you can see the channel or what ever screen it was on when you turned it off. That's why it turns on so fast and doesn't go thru the boot up screen. I noticed this when the sun was shinning on the screen the other day. I suspect this is what's draining my engine battery. I haven't had a chance to take it in to the dealer yet, maybe in a couple weeks.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:21 AM   #8
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Spoke with the Boise ID dealer by phone today. They've had several new 2017 AI's with dead engine batteries, and they suspect the Fusion system setup is the culprit. But they haven't figured it out for sure.




2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:04 PM   #9
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My Fusion questions were answered quickly by one their field engineers. I suggest you contact him directly to understand exactly the power approach of the Fusion unit in the AI 17. Hope this helps.

David Perales
Field Service Engineer
Office: 623-580-9000 Ext: 8126|Fax: 623-580-9009|Mobile: 602-332-4162 |Skype: daperales
Email: david.perales@fusionentertainment.com | Website: www.fusionentertainment.com
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:13 PM   #10
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Collins , Mississippi
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Having the exact same problem with our 2017. It has been at the dealer for over 2 weeks. They think that it is the fusion causing the problem but can't
figure out how to correct the problem. If anybody figures this out please let
us know.. Thanks
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:50 PM   #11
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Battery problems...No way!

Snark

Why is my battery dead?

It is a special feature factory installed in every Airstream Interstate.

It's the Lifeline guarantee. I guarantee your Lifeline will die.
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:52 PM   #12
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Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

How can this be unless the BIM is faulty? When plugged into shore power there should be more than enough juice to run everything including charge the chassis battery.

This should be easy to check by putting a volt meter on the manual disconnect for the chassis battery (on the floor of the cab to the right of the accelerator) while the rig is plugged in and the main disconnect is on (i.e. red LED on and power to the lights, fridge, etc). It should be at least 13v if the Magnum charger and BIM are doing their jobs.
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Old 12-04-2016, 02:27 PM   #13
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Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
The Solar battery voltage is adjusted using a trim resistor on its back. That could easily be out of adjustment. Mine was not as bad but I still had to adjust it. And even then, couldn't get it to agree across the full voltage range.

That said, I have not seen them this far apart from each other.

The more reliable way to read the battery voltages is the meter on the TouchSensor tank level panel. You can get a direct read of the voltages on chassis (Batt Main) and house (Batt Aux) batteries using the same meter.
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- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:38 PM   #14
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Fulton , Maryland
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Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

ScottP,
In examining the 2017 wiring diagrams provided at the back of the 2017 Interstate Owner Manual I observed the following:

1. The House Main Disconnect Switch controls 12VDC power to the house 12V Distribution (fuse) Panel and the 12V side of the Magnum Inverter/Charger.
2. It also transfers the ignition enable voltage for the Fusion radio from the house batteries to the Sprinter chassis battery when key is ON, just as it does in my 2013 model via a pair of diodes in the circuits. But the main power for the Fusion radio still comes from the house batteries.
3. With the House Main Disconnect Switch OFF the following 12VDC items remain powered:
a. Emergency Start (Boost) power to Battery Isolator relay
b. Gray and Fresh Water Tank Heaters
c. Lounge Seat folding motor
d. Solar Charging system
e. Main 12VDC for the Fusion radio
f. Waste Hose Reel
4. The BIM (or Battery Isolator) should keep the chassis battery charged when there is a charge source on the house batteries as when the Magnum Inverter/Charger is powered by a 120VAC source, shore power or generator. Unless the BIM logic has changed significantly since 2013.

This is the 2012 logic of the BIM that I captured from the Precision Circuits Inc. in 2013:
= = = = = = =
Detailed Operation:
1) Relay is turned on if:
a) Ignition is on for 20 seconds &
i) 2 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Coach Battery less than 12.6V &
Chassis Battery is greater than 13.2 &
Chassis Battery is Less than 15.5V &
Generator is off

b) Ignition is off &
i) 10 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Chassis Battery less than 12.6V, &
Coach Battery is greater than 13.0V &
Coach Battery is less than 15.5V
= = = = = = =

The same document that you can download today does not have the specific voltages found in the document I downloaded in 2013. So it is possible that they have changed something in the BIM logic, but unlikely.
= = = = = = =
Detailed Operation:
1) Relay is turned on if:
a) Ignition is on for 20 seconds &
i) 2 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Coach Battery voltage low and needs charging
Chassis Battery has a charging voltage &
Chassis Battery is Less than 15.5V &
Generator is off

b) Ignition is off &
i) 10 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Chassis Battery voltage low and needs charging &
Coach Battery has a charging voltage &
Coach Battery is less than 15.5V
= = = = = = =

Bottom line: If your Sprinter Chassis battery is going flat when you have the Interstate plugged into 120VAC power AND the Main Disconnect Switch ON there is something wrong in your Battery Isolator (BIM) circuit.

One important first thing to check is the main 12VDC connections on the Battery Isolation relay. Mine were delivered loose and it caused some strange problems that I finally solved after talking to the Electrical Technician from my dealer, Colonial Airstream. The attached PDF file illustrates the problem I had with the Battery Isolation relay.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottP View Post
Thank you Mike!


2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon

I should also add that if you have run your chassis battery dead a few times now it may well be damaged and not accepting a charge properly.


- - Mike
2013 Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:31 PM   #16
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Colorado Springs , Colorado
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Wow. I don't know whether to feel better or worse that I'm not alone with this problem. Exact same situation. Plugged in to shore power, house power on, couple of days later, coach battery is dead.

I too have been in contact with David Perales. The most recent repy from him:

Quote:
I think I did found the root of the issue and I been waiting some info from Airstream to confirm my findings, I will send you an email at soonest I get the info, from now just turn OFF the house battery when you donít use vehicle at the camp grounds, outside of your home or when the vehicle is at the storage.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:12 AM   #17
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Rye , New Hampshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgolf View Post
My Fusion questions were answered quickly by one their field engineers. I suggest you contact him directly to understand exactly the power approach of the Fusion unit in the AI 17. Hope this helps.



David Perales

Field Service Engineer

Office: 623-580-9000 Ext: 8126|Fax: 623-580-9009|Mobile: 602-332-4162 |Skype: daperales

Email: david.perales@fusionentertainment.com | Website: www.fusionentertainment.com



Would you be willing to share the feedback the Fusion engineer gave you?

It might be helpful


2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
__________________
(7) Previous AS Interstate's owned: All Black Lounges
2014.5, 2015, 2016, 2017 (4x4), 2018 (4x4), 2019 (4x4+air), current is a new 2018 (4x4+air)
2019 AS 27' Globetrotter & 2019 F350 Plat Diesel
Rye, NH / Bend, OR / Las Cruces, NM
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:18 AM   #18
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Rye , New Hampshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
ScottP,
In examining the 2017 wiring diagrams provided at the back of the 2017 Interstate Owner Manual I observed the following:

1. The House Main Disconnect Switch controls 12VDC power to the house 12V Distribution (fuse) Panel and the 12V side of the Magnum Inverter/Charger.
2. It also transfers the ignition enable voltage for the Fusion radio from the house batteries to the Sprinter chassis battery when key is ON, just as it does in my 2013 model via a pair of diodes in the circuits. But the main power for the Fusion radio still comes from the house batteries.
3. With the House Main Disconnect Switch OFF the following 12VDC items remain powered:
a. Emergency Start (Boost) power to Battery Isolator relay
b. Gray and Fresh Water Tank Heaters
c. Lounge Seat folding motor
d. Solar Charging system
e. Main 12VDC for the Fusion radio
f. Waste Hose Reel
4. The BIM (or Battery Isolator) should keep the chassis battery charged when there is a charge source on the house batteries as when the Magnum Inverter/Charger is powered by a 120VAC source, shore power or generator. Unless the BIM logic has changed significantly since 2013.

This is the 2012 logic of the BIM that I captured from the Precision Circuits Inc. in 2013:
= = = = = = =
Detailed Operation:
1) Relay is turned on if:
a) Ignition is on for 20 seconds &
i) 2 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Coach Battery less than 12.6V &
Chassis Battery is greater than 13.2 &
Chassis Battery is Less than 15.5V &
Generator is off

b) Ignition is off &
i) 10 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Chassis Battery less than 12.6V, &
Coach Battery is greater than 13.0V &
Coach Battery is less than 15.5V
= = = = = = =

The same document that you can download today does not have the specific voltages found in the document I downloaded in 2013. So it is possible that they have changed something in the BIM logic, but unlikely.
= = = = = = =
Detailed Operation:
1) Relay is turned on if:
a) Ignition is on for 20 seconds &
i) 2 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Coach Battery voltage low and needs charging
Chassis Battery has a charging voltage &
Chassis Battery is Less than 15.5V &
Generator is off

b) Ignition is off &
i) 10 minutes have passed since Relay last turned off &
Chassis Battery voltage low and needs charging &
Coach Battery has a charging voltage &
Coach Battery is less than 15.5V
= = = = = = =

Bottom line: If your Sprinter Chassis battery is going flat when you have the Interstate plugged into 120VAC power AND the Main Disconnect Switch ON there is something wrong in your Battery Isolator (BIM) circuit.

One important first thing to check is the main 12VDC connections on the Battery Isolation relay. Mine were delivered loose and it caused some strange problems that I finally solved after talking to the Electrical Technician from my dealer, Colonial Airstream. The attached PDF file illustrates the problem I had with the Battery Isolation relay.



Thank you Mike, I appreciate all the time and energy you've expended to help solve this problem.

The Sprinter dealer assured me the BIM is operating properly. I shared my doubts, but the tech assured me his tests were straightforward and properly conducted.




2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
__________________
(7) Previous AS Interstate's owned: All Black Lounges
2014.5, 2015, 2016, 2017 (4x4), 2018 (4x4), 2019 (4x4+air), current is a new 2018 (4x4+air)
2019 AS 27' Globetrotter & 2019 F350 Plat Diesel
Rye, NH / Bend, OR / Las Cruces, NM
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanGo View Post
Wow. I don't know whether to feel better or worse that I'm not alone with this problem. Exact same situation. Plugged in to shore power, house power on, couple of days later, coach battery is dead.



I too have been in contact with David Perales. The most recent repy from him:



Thank you - perhaps you can disseminate the Fusion feedback when you received it?

We're all pretty frustrated. I'm disappointed a service bulletin hasn't been considered and after speaking with three separate AS service departments, nobody's heard of the problem (except the Boise sakes rep who mentioned his floor units keep dying).


2017 4x4 Interstate
Bend, Oregon
__________________
(7) Previous AS Interstate's owned: All Black Lounges
2014.5, 2015, 2016, 2017 (4x4), 2018 (4x4), 2019 (4x4+air), current is a new 2018 (4x4+air)
2019 AS 27' Globetrotter & 2019 F350 Plat Diesel
Rye, NH / Bend, OR / Las Cruces, NM
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:57 AM   #20
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2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
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One way to troubleshoot the problem is to get a clamp DC meter. Clamp it around the chassis battery cable and then play with combination of switches/circuits in the coach to see what happens. Either way, there better not be anything there other than small current. Clamp meters are pretty cheap and will go a long way toward figuring out what is going on.

Make sure if you buy one that it measures *DC* and not just AC. And that it shows at least one tenth of an amp. You need to zero the unit before clamping it on the battery.
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