Dead engine battery....quiz (2017 AI)

[don000]

Very pleased to read this discussion about the Fusion drain. It was infuriating to find my chassis battery dead after leaving the vehicle for a just few days with the Main Disconnect off. It's ridiculous to have to disconnect the chassis power in the footwell just to park for a day or two.

My plan is to utilize an Impact SPST dash switch (http://www.impact3d.com/sprinter_products.htm) on the connection between the Fusion and the chassis battery.

Does anyone know the wiring well enough to guide me to the right one ?

Thanks.

[dapolrbear]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

Is this regardless of the position of the Main Disconnect switch by the sliding door? Saying it another way, does your radio now only turn on/off via the key?

Yes. Only via the ignition switch. Ignition has to be on or accessory position for the Fusion to power on. I don't know if it is tied into the house batteries at all. I think he mentioned that it uses the house batteries to keep the memory on the Fusion. The Fusion runs thru the boot up screen every time I turn on the ignition now, no more sleep mode.

Strange cuz I emailed AS customer support 2 weeks ago inquiring about this issue and if there is a service bulletin, they said they're not aware of this issue and there is no service bulletin. The tech at the AS dealer says that mine is the 4th one that came in for this fix.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by dapolrbear

Yes. Only via the ignition switch. Ignition has to be on or accessory position for the Fusion to power on. I don't know if it is tied into the house batteries at all. I think he mentioned that it uses the house batteries to keep the memory on the Fusion. The Fusion runs thru the boot up screen every time I turn on the ignition now, no more sleep mode.

Strange cuz I emailed AS customer support 2 weeks ago inquiring about this issue and if there is a service bulletin, they said they're not aware of this issue and there is no service bulletin. The tech at the AS dealer says that mine is the 4th one that came in for this fix.

Thanks much for the info.

If that's their solution, I think I'll leave mine as is. I really like being able to turn it on from the side door, and so far my new solar controller is doing a good job of keeping all the batteries topped up.

[dapolrbear]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

Thanks much for the info.

If that's their solution, I think I'll leave mine as is. I really like being able to turn it on from the side door, and so far my new solar controller is doing a good job of keeping all the batteries topped up.

Ya, I was reading your solar upgrade and am really interested in doing the same. Is there a comparable controller that will fit inside the existing cabinet? Not sure I want to mount it on the exterior of the rear seats, I'm sure my kids will damage it or the wires somehow.

[VanGo]

Originally Posted by dapolrbear

Yes. Only via the ignition switch. Ignition has to be on or accessory position for the Fusion to power on. I don't know if it is tied into the house batteries at all. I think he mentioned that it uses the house batteries to keep the memory on the Fusion. The Fusion runs thru the boot up screen every time I turn on the ignition now, no more sleep mode.

Strange cuz I emailed AS customer support 2 weeks ago inquiring about this issue and if there is a service bulletin, they said they're not aware of this issue and there is no service bulletin. The tech at the AS dealer says that mine is the 4th one that came in for this fix.

I find that really hard to believe. I had the same issue. I took it to the dealer and they worked with Airstream and got it rewired properly. They also told me that 3 others came in with the same issue while mine was there.

Since they rewired, I have had no further issue. One thing I do have to make sure of is that the unit is REALLY off. The only way that I'm able to tell that is to have the radio on and the volume up. The light on the power button means nothing. Blank screen means nothing.

[dapolrbear]

Originally Posted by VanGo

I find that really hard to believe. I had the same issue. I took it to the dealer and they worked with Airstream and got it rewired properly. They also told me that 3 others came in with the same issue while mine was there.

Since they rewired, I have had no further issue. One thing I do have to make sure of is that the unit is REALLY off. The only way that I'm able to tell that is to have the radio on and the volume up. The light on the power button means nothing. Blank screen means nothing.

How did your dealer fix or rewire your Fusion? The same way as mine?

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by dapolrbear

Ya, I was reading your solar upgrade and am really interested in doing the same. Is there a comparable controller that will fit inside the existing cabinet? Not sure I want to mount it on the exterior of the rear seats, I'm sure my kids will damage it or the wires somehow.

I'm sure there is. I chose the Renogy simply because it uses the same Cat 5 Ethernet cable to go between the charge controller and the remote as the old Atkinson so I didn't have to pull new cable through the coach for the remote monitor. I plan to cover it with some smoked Lexan just to keep little feet from banging into it. Should work just fine.

One option folks have used is to go with the Victron and Bluetooth dongle so you don't need a remote, but as near as I can tell the Victron charge controller is as big as the Renogy so you still have the problem of where to mount it. I think McRider mounted his Victron in the same spot that I mounted my Renogy. If you're willing to move some thick cables around, you might be able to squeeze the Renogy or Victron under the jump seat, but it won't be easy.

Which ever way you go, working in that area is MUCH easier if you remove the 4 bolts that hold the jump seat bottom in place and remove it. I didn't do that but in hindsight probably should have. There may be more room to put the charge controller behind the Magnum, but it's impossible to work back there with the seat bottom in place.

Other charge controllers to consider would be Morningstar, Zamp, and Blue Sky. Maybe one of their MPPT controllers is a bit smaller.....but you'll still have the issue of where to mount the remote. I guess you could always cut a hole in the panel that the breaker box is mounted to and mount it there. That way it's hidden behind a door so the kids won't whack it, but it would be a bit of a PITA to check on a regular basis......

[amirm]

I have this Bluestar MPPT controller: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



It is quite tiny and I had no problem finding space for it.

Note that it is only rated at 200 watts/15 amps so you can only have two panels: http://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpen...ENG10_1111.pdf

[VanGo]

Originally Posted by dapolrbear

How did your dealer fix or rewire your Fusion? The same way as mine?

No. So that if house power is on, it runs off house. If not, it runs off chassis. And only if ignition is on.

[ScottP]

Originally Posted by VanGo

No. So that if house power is on, it runs off house. If not, it runs off chassis. And only if ignition is on.

Just a quick note, as posted previously ...

We installed a kill switch, near the drivers seat, for the Fusion Radio power. Now we know it's not draining power, and only "hot" when we want it to be.

Problem solved, but an aggravating experience nonetheless. (multiple no-start experiences)

[UKDUDE]

I have an issue that may be related to this, at least as far as the Battery Isolation Manager logic handles the chassis battery charging:

Since upgrading my batteries to 300A I’ve had no issues with keeping chassis and coach batteries charged; the Magnum has performed well and even on occasion displays BattSave (Full Charge) mode.

This year we’re remodeling, so the AI hasn’t had much use and has been sitting in the garage plugged into shore power. Meanwhile my wife decided she wanted to use the fridge in the AI for drinks, etc, so I turned it on, and also left on the coach power (by the door) so she could easily turn on the lights to get to the fridge. A couple of weeks later I noticed the chassis battery was down to 12.08V so I rapidly connected a smart charger and it came back after a day or so.

I’ve now disconnected the chassis battery charger and turned off the coach power and am keeping an eye on things. It seems the chassis battery has stabilized at around 12.77V which is within the range for the Battery Isolation Manager.

So my question is what’s going on here? Why does having on the coach power appear to affect the BIM’s logic?

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

I have an issue that may be related to this, at least as far as the Battery Isolation Manager logic handles the chassis battery charging:

Since upgrading my batteries to 300A I’ve had no issues with keeping chassis and coach batteries charged; the Magnum has performed well and even on occasion displays BattSave (Full Charge) mode.

This year we’re remodeling, so the AI hasn’t had much use and has been sitting in the garage plugged into shore power. Meanwhile my wife decided she wanted to use the fridge in the AI for drinks, etc, so I turned it on, and also left on the coach power (by the door) so she could easily turn on the lights to get to the fridge. A couple of weeks later I noticed the chassis battery was down to 12.08V so I rapidly connected a smart charger and it came back after a day or so.

I’ve now disconnected the chassis battery charger and turned off the coach power and am keeping an eye on things. It seems the chassis battery has stabilized at around 12.77V which is within the range for the Battery Isolation Manager.

So my question is what’s going on here? Why does having on the coach power appear to affect the BIM’s logic?

I think you are running into the voltage "mismatches" surrounding the BIM. In order for it to close when you're on shore power, the house batteries need to be over 13.3v. The trouble is, when the Magnum is set to its as-shipped default of AGM2, it only charges the coach batteries to 13.1v. As a result, the BIM never closes so your chassis battery dies a slow death, especially if you have the new Fusion infotainment system that draws a fair amount of power even when "off".

The solution is to do as you've done and keep a trickle charger on the chassis battery when you're plugged into shore power. Another option is to set your battery type to Flooded in the Magnum settings so it floats the house batteries at 13.4v which will ensure the BIM closes so it charges both battery banks.

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

I think you are running into the voltage "mismatches" surrounding the BIM. In order for it to close when you're on shore power, the house batteries need to be over 13.3v. The trouble is, when the Magnum is set to its as-shipped default of AGM2, it only charges the coach batteries to 13.1v. As a result, the BIM never closes so your chassis battery dies a slow death, especially if you have the new Fusion infotainment system that draws a fair amount of power even when "off".

The solution is to do as you've done and keep a trickle charger on the chassis battery when you're plugged into shore power. Another option is to set your battery type to Flooded in the Magnum settings so it floats the house batteries at 13.4v which will ensure the BIM closes so it charges both battery banks.

Well yes, I did read your earlier comment about the BIM's inconsistency and I mostly agree with you. But I'm an inquisitive Brit and I'd really like to understand why the behaviour is different depending on whether the coach power is on or off.
And since the coach power has been off, I noted the Magnum once again displaying BattSave Mode. That gives me a little peace of mind!

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

Well yes, I did read your earlier comment about the BIM's inconsistency and I mostly agree with you. But I'm an inquisitive Brit and I'd really like to understand why the behaviour is different depending on whether the coach power is on or off.
And since the coach power has been off, I noted the Magnum once again displaying BattSave Mode. That gives me a little peace of mind!

What battery type do you have your Magnum set to? Something seems odd about how your system is operating.

As far at going into BattSave mode, I can certainly see how it wouldn't do this with the house power on, especially if your batteries are 3+ years old. The house loads (fridge, lights, etc) will draw the batteries down so once the 4hr Float stage is over, the voltage could still be below the BattSave threshold, forcing another Float stage (or even an Absorb stage if your batts are getting really weak or you have sustained high house loads, like maybe running the inverter and an appliance).

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr

What battery type do you have your Magnum set to? Something seems odd about how your system is operating.



As far at going into BattSave mode, I can certainly see how it wouldn't do this with the house power on, especially if your batteries are 3+ years old. The house loads (fridge, lights, etc) will draw the batteries down so once the 4hr Float stage is over, the voltage could still be below the BattSave threshold, forcing another Float stage (or even an Absorb stage if your batts are getting really weak or you have sustained high house loads, like maybe running the inverter and an appliance).

Batt type is set to AGM1.
But my batteries were new last summer and I've babied them since. In fact Lew installed them for me with a manual cut-off. And SB-164 was removed!
In use everything's performed well, it just seems to be a problem with keeping the chassis battery charged while plugged in with the coach power on.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by UKDUDE

Batt type is set to AGM1.
But my batteries were new last summer and I've babied them since. In fact Lew installed them for me with a manual cut-off. And SB-164 was removed!
In use everything's performed well, it just seems to be a problem with keeping the chassis battery charged while plugged in with the coach power on.

Something definitely doesn't make sense here.

According to the operational behavior of the BIM, when there is a house charging source (like being plugged into shore power), the BIM won't close unless the house batteries are over 13.3v and the chassis battery is under 12.6v. When the Magnum is set to AGM1, it Float charges at 13.1v (in BattSave the charger is off and it just monitors the voltage). Yet you say your chassis battery has "stabilized" at 12.77v, indicating it's being maintained by....what??? Unless your Magnum is dropping into Absorb for some reason (it shouldn't if the house power is off), how is the chassis battery getting charged? I can see the opposite scenario working (house ON, drawing down the house batteries enough to initiate an Absorb charge of 14.3v, thus turning on the BIM and also charging your chassis battery), but you said that actually ISN'T working.

I don't have access to shore power where I store my coach so I can't test that behavior, but I will say my solar maintains my batteries (ALL of them) as expected, especially since I replaced my solar controller with the Renogy MPPT and set its Float voltage to 13.4v. This ensures the BIM closes once the chassis falls below 12.6v (its "logic" says the house has to be over 13.3v AND the chassis has to be under 12.6v.....ugh). After I replace the BIM with something more sensible (why on earth wait until the chassis is that low before allowing it to charge????), my chassis battery should stay above 13.0v.

Do you have garden gnomes? I've heard they come alive at night and cause all manner of mischief......

[Boxster1971]

One variable to consider is temperatures. The BIM voltages are not adjusted for temps, but if Lew installed UKDUDE's batteries he likely added the temp sensor for the Magnum unit. The voltages of the charger can then vary by several 10ths to over one volt depending on temps. Also I've noticed that the voltages on the BIM can be several 10ths different than the voltage reported by Magnum charger.

[UKDUDE]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

One variable to consider is temperatures. The BIM voltages are not adjusted for temps, but if Lew installed UKDUDE's batteries he likely added the temp sensor for the Magnum unit. The voltages of the charger can then vary by several 10ths to over one volt depending on temps. Also I've noticed that the voltages on the BIM can be several 10ths different than the voltage reported by Magnum charger.

Your'e absolutely right Mike, one minor point I had omitted; I do have the temperature sensor. And lately the garage has been in the mid-80s during the day.

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

One variable to consider is temperatures. The BIM voltages are not adjusted for temps, but if Lew installed UKDUDE's batteries he likely added the temp sensor for the Magnum unit. The voltages of the charger can then vary by several 10ths to over one volt depending on temps. Also I've noticed that the voltages on the BIM can be several 10ths different than the voltage reported by Magnum charger.

Great point Mike. I hadn't considered temp compensation.

Of course having said that the Magnum owner's manual indicates that as the temps go up, the charging voltages go down. Unless UK's garage is roughly 60*F or colder at night (which it may very well be), the charge voltage still won't be high enough to trip the BIM......

[UKDUDE]

Thank you guys. I'm currently keeping a close watch on the chassis battery voltage. When I disconnected the charger, the chassis battery voltage was around 12.77V. It's now down to 12.60V. And in case you're wondering, I'm using a flashlight in order not to upset things by turning on the coach power! The Magnum has been periodically going between BattSave and Float, but I'm hoping the BIM will connect the batteries so the chassis battery gets a boost. we'll see.
Edit: And currently we don't cool down much overnight, perhaps about 75F.