Catastrophic tire blow-out in an Interstate

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

...

Besides, what is wrong with what's on the placard. Airstream engineers were required by the government to put that pressure there so, they considered it very carefully.
......

(1) Those of us who own these vehicles strive to maximize ride stability and quality. One of the ways we do that is by matching tire pressures to loads using the best available data. Someone with technical skills came up with those data and I don’t have time today to do a deep dive on whether or not their justification was as strong as it could have been. But FWIW, what we did is a common practice.

(2) Airstream engineers did not do diddly with the Interstate in this context - that’s mostly on Mercedes Benz, with MB certifying Airstream’s intended builds (or whatever it is that they term the rendering of a blessing - see this link but it goes much deeper than that marketing spin). Again, for the fourth? time, this is not a trailer being discussed in this thread - it’s a Sprinter van. It is not something that was built from the ground up by Airstream, only finished out.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by 21Airstream

I’ll second that! Blowouts on the rear axle are the worst because you don’t have steering to help you control the vehicle.

It sort of went sideways down the freeway for a bit. I was on a straightaway so in THAT respect, I was extremely lucky. If that tire had failed on a curve, I am not sure what the outcome would have been. This thing hates curves at the best of times.

But yes, I can get out of a lot of situations. I have at least 75,000 miles of driving experience in this unusual vehicle under my belt. I boondocked in it for 3 months of 2019 alone. I’ve driven from Houston Texas to northeastern Nova Scotia 5 times, 3 of which were solo trips. I’ve blown tires, a turbo hose, a 200-amp alternator, and the number one piston at high speeds. I’ve limped up mountains at 20 mph. I’ve jacked all 8,500 pounds of it myself (a 135-pound female) in the woods 25 miles from civilization. We know each other pretty well, this Interstate and I, but I am still learning, big time.

[Bill M.]

I do not have an Interstate. 225 seems like a very narrow tire for a heavy load. Yes, I saw the posted placards. Is there room for wider wheels and tires? Have any of the Interstaters tried that? Gosh, my pickup tires are 265. It sounds like you have enough miles with these tires and the Interstate to know that it does not happen often. And sometimes changes make things worse.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I do not have an Interstate. 225 seems like a very narrow tire for a heavy load. Yes, I saw the posted placards. Is there room for wider wheels and tires? Have any of the Interstaters tried that? Gosh, my pickup tires are 265. It sounds like you have enough miles with these tires and the Interstate to know that it does not happen often. And sometimes changes make things worse.

A good question followed by a good observation on your part. TMK, no T1N Interstaters have departed from the status quo.

I personally have never liked the Michelin Defender 225, but the guy who is arguably the country’s most knowledgeable expert on the T1N Sprinter (Million Mile Sprinter) picks that as his favorite. Virtually all serious T1N Sprinter upfit owners use this same tire whether they drive Interstates or SOBs.

Yes, I would pay pretty much any price for a more reliable tire. But sometimes when we try to make things better, we accidentally make them worse. It comes down to a choice between the go-to tire for this vehicle configuration, as imperfect as that is, VERSUS, something else that could prove to be better or worse, but for which much less data exists, and that’s the problem.

Rock and a hard place. And I will take this question to Sprinter Forum, but it’s not just a T1N Sprinter issue. it’s a T1N Airstream Interstate issue because of the way the build is configured.

[Lily&Me]

My Interstate being in storage, I don’t have access to it or the paperwork in the glove box, but I have truck tires made by Firestone on my 07.

Don’t know numbers or specifications, but they are truck tires and bigger than the standard if I recall correctly.

Maggie

[InterBlog]

A propos of this thread. Obviously an old video, but still displaying on Michelin’s website. I wonder if the advice is impacted by newer computer technologies such as the lane assist feature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CseABfJL1FM

[rhumbliner]

Someone else may have brought this up, but it looks like you’re running on snow tires. Is that correct?

[Hittenstiehl]

Snow tires? Not sure you read the thread.

[rhumbliner]

Nope. it’s a pretty long thread. Just read the first & last pages.

[Outbackga]

Contact Good Sam, it is likely they re imburse you for their failure to help you out of danger. It worked for me. Apply on line then call.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I think we may have enough info to shed some light on the situation. CapriRacer's observations should be considered a top contender as his knowledge, skills and track record is all top notch.

Let's also look at the history of the tire. It is a Defender 245 75R 16 with a load index of 111 max pressure of 44psi and a load rating of 2403 lb. Contrast this to the GVWR of the vehicle at 8550 lb and a rear GAWR of 5360. The OEM tires were light truck tires load index 120, load range E with a max load rating of 3042 lb at 80 psi. The OEM tire has excess capacity on the rear axle of 362 lb. The Defender that was installed had a load deficit of 477 lb. if the Sprinter was fully loaded on the rear axle. Now it is unlikely the rear axle was fully loaded, but the vehicle was reported near the GVWR of 8550 and it's likely somewhere between 50 and 65% of that weight was on the rear axle, so per tire we have somewhere between 2140 and 2780 on the Defender rated for 2403 lb at 44 psi. We don't know the pressure history of that tire for the 1000 miles, 683 revolutions per mile.

We can say CapriRacer's suggestion it developed a puncture, deflated, overheated and disintegrated is a good theory. But we can also easily see this tire may well have been overloaded for much or all of its 1000 mile road life.

Now on the additional effect of a crosswind, the natural frequency of vehicle suspension is generally matched to the walking gate of humans so that the movement is perceived as comfortable. so about 1 hz. Let's say the wind was rocking the vehicle at its natural frequency. Now this is not exact but it will do for this discussion. Going down the road flexes the tire at 683 revs per mile, at 55 mph that's 10 per second. The wind ads 2 flexes per cycle or an addition 20% as if it is instead traveling 65-70 mph. Still well under the speed rating but not insignificant as the additional flex will add a fair amount of heat to the tire.

Conclusions? Maybe it developed a puncture, quite possibly it was overloaded and very likely the wind contributed to heat buildup to some extent.

Where did it say they weren’t E range?

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I do not have an Interstate. 225 seems like a very narrow tire for a heavy load. Yes, I saw the posted placards. Is there room for wider wheels and tires? Have any of the Interstaters tried that? Gosh, my pickup tires are 265. It sounds like you have enough miles with these tires and the Interstate to know that it does not happen often. And sometimes changes make things worse.

I'm in total agreement, on the narrow tires.

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

A good question followed by a good observation on your part. TMK, no T1N Interstaters have departed from the status quo.

I personally have never liked the Michelin Defender 225, but the guy who is arguably the country’s most knowledgeable expert on the T1N Sprinter (Million Mile Sprinter) picks that as his favorite. Virtually all serious T1N Sprinter upfit owners use this same tire whether they drive Interstates or SOBs.

Yes, I would pay pretty much any price for a more reliable tire. But sometimes when we try to make things better, we accidentally make them worse. It comes down to a choice between the go-to tire for this vehicle configuration, as imperfect as that is, VERSUS, something else that could prove to be better or worse, but for which much less data exists, and that’s the problem.

Rock and a hard place. And I will take this question to Sprinter Forum, but it’s not just a T1N Sprinter issue. it’s a T1N Airstream Interstate issue because of the way the build is configured.

Because a million mile Sprinter "Expert" likes a narrow 225 on a heavy vehicle, with a high profile (like a sail) that doesn't mean it's safe.And a Michelin to boot lol
Here's a example.A lot of hardened and grizzled Harley chopper riders like a very narrow front tire, on said chopper, because it looks cool.Said chopper is a inherently dangerous vehicle to begin with.Do they care that they are making it more dangerous?Of course not.
Now, would I follow that million mile Sprinter drivers expert advice? Of course not.I'd put the widest/ heaviest commercial grade / non Michelin tires, on steel rims, on it, that were possible.
If it rides more like a truck than a big Cadillac then, so be it.
I would be hedging my bet.On a heavy/ top heavy/ wind influenced Van.That "Hates curves" for fairly obvious reasons....

[Luckysnuck]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I do not have an Interstate. 225 seems like a very narrow tire for a heavy load. Yes, I saw the posted placards. Is there room for wider wheels and tires? Have any of the Interstaters tried that? Gosh, my pickup tires are 265. It sounds like you have enough miles with these tires and the Interstate to know that it does not happen often. And sometimes changes make things worse.

First off; thank you IB for your attention to detail while describing your ordeal, the adapt & overcome pragmatic way you dealt with this unfortunate event is an example to us all. Additionally it's your and other contributor's insightful comments that serve this forum's community well for it's betterment...also very happy you came thru this physically unscathed.

Bill, To your tire size question; I'm one of several posters that have moved away from the OEM tire size for a slightly wider/taller profile alternative; the following link will speak to this. Some fellow & respected forum posters voiced caution and their comments did not fall on deaf ears, although I ultimately did make the switch. Since switching I've logged 12K+ miles on these tires including a recent 4K+ mile round tripper from Ohio to Utah. I can only speak from my personal experience, but these Michelin Defender LTX M/S E (235/85R-16) have outperformed my expectations with regard to my driving confidence, smooth & quite ride and durability (no discernable excessive crown wear as was cautioned). No intention at all of being a OEM Continental Tire basher, but for myself the Michelin Defender excelled on every attribute I can think of vs. the OEM Conti's.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...-a-202710.html

[madpiper]

Thank God you weren't seriously injured or killed. I've had a similar experience with a purchase of new tires were one, for no visible reason, blew out on me on the interstate. It was a goodyear tire so now I have for years only been buying Michelin tires but I guess a freak accident can happen with any tire.

[blkmagikca]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Lots of questions relating to the weight of your trailer and the tire pressures and speeds you run at. I'm assuming you were running 16" LT Michelin's? Prior to getting my Michelin M+S LT tires I had never been able to keep an ST tire on my Classic past 3 seasons without having a belt failure. Fast forward the M+S tires were used for 6 uneventful seasons without any problems. I'm starting year 3 for my current set of Defenders. Because my 30' Slide out is very heavy and my typical trailer weight is around 8,800-9,100 lbs. I run at 80 psi cold and I tow anywhere from 55-65 mph. As noted there was a recall on some LT M+S Michelin's some time back but mine were not in the serial number range of those bad tires. Typically a high run up in tire temperatures are related to high speed running or under inflation issues.

Based on your age of your trailer, I was just verifying you were running the 16" LT version of the Defenders.

Jack

Jack, the Michelin M+S 225/75R16(E) tires I had that failed were purchased at and installed by JC on new 16" rims. The failures were tread separations. As for the trailer weights, I had upgraded my axles at JC and shortly afterwards I went through the Escapees Smart Weigh program. I did this with all my tanks filled (full fresh water, full gray and waste tanks) after attending the Escapade. I did not exceed any weight ratings re: tires, axles, GVWR. Prior to the last 2 failures (Friday & Saturday), I had my AS serviced at JC that week, specificallly to ensure that all my running gear was OK. 3 and 4 days later were the failures. My insurers went over all this as part of the claim for repairs and they attempted to get Michelin to cover this as part of the Michelin 7-year warranty - without success. Michelin was having problems with their tires and had posted a listing of the lots that they recalled as unsafe. With the first failure (6 months before the other 2) I asked them about the lot number of my tires and was told that my lot number had been certified by their engineers to be safe, and that I had a 7 year warranty and should keep on trucking. Had they made me an offer to replace all my tires at, say, half price, I would have taken it; they were adamant that my tires were safe. 6 months later, 2 catastrophic failures. The tread that separated also bent the outriggers which cut the tires and ultimately caused the blowouts.

[Titus]

My sample size of 6 Michelin Defenders is not worth much. But I find it odd that all other threads but this one have been pro-Michelin Defenders. Many were lamenting to phasing out of the Defender. Not sure what has changed other then one bad experience - that may or may not have been due to the tire (some speculated it may have encountered road damage then was run flat).

[Blazeman1]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I will get to those details when I get a chance.

Meanwhile, before I forget —

T1N INTERSTATE OWNERS -

This is an excellent time for you to remind yourselves that the lug bolts needed to attach your full-sized spare are NOT THE SAME SIZE as the bolts that hold on your regular wheels.

The spare lug bolts should be in a plastic bag underneath your jack, which is located in the passenger footwell under the carpet (if you have carpet) in the T1N Sprinter.

Check to verify that those bolts are present, because if you have a flat or a blow-out like I have here, you are not going anywhere without them.

Also, you will notice in this pic that I locked the remains of my wheel to my rear hitch platform. I basically took the gas can cable lock and ran it through the rim. I am in a truck stop - these places can be harsh and unforgiving. Items left sitting freely on the ground might not remain there for very long. Someone might have decided that they would like to have that hunk of metal that I need to retain ownership of. Such notions must be discouraged.

Get a van with duels...

[InterBlog]

I’m still working on this... the research is going to take a while due to it having multiple variables and angles of approach. There are many moving parts that influence the driving outcome which is ultimately reflected in tire performance.

(1) I am revisiting the issue of the suspension from the ground up (pun intended), front and rear.

(2) And alignment.

(3) And tire choices if I have to keep these wheels.

(4) And whether or not I could realistically accommodate a larger wheel with a better tire.

For the benefit of the unusual number of readers on this thread, many of whom have never owned T1N Sprinters and do not have an intimate understanding of the issues that we owners face, I went through an elaborate investigation into issues of suspension and alignment in 2018. Every component of the suspension influences the forces acting on the tire sidewalls. For instance:

- We have an upgraded sway bar that helps with highway speed stability but there’s a price to be paid on low-speed oscillations.

- I have never been happy with the Koni shocks that were rumored to be so good for this type of vehicle. Those are getting replaced on general principle now, but I’m not yet sure what with.

Etcetera.

Meanwhile, here’s one tidbit of forensics (alignment data) which indirectly reflects how heavy the van is. I wasn’t having tire wear issues when I did this - this van has always worn tread uniformly, but in being thorough, I had the alignment checked out and adjusted anyway.

[Shads Shack]

1) The blowout was on the rear, correct? Probably not road debris as front tire would have hit first.


2) Sign up for AAA RV coverage (several levels). I have used them only once, when a dealer-installed transmission cooler failed while towing.


While on the PA Tpk, the State Farm rover spotted us, contacted a AAA tow truck, with flatbed. Put the tow vehicle on the flatbed and towed the trailer to a nearby campground, got me to a rental car place, and dropped the tow vehicle at a repair shop, all within hours. Couldn't have been more satisfied with the service, considering the circumstances.


I'm not sure the advertised tow distance and maybe a few other things are as good as advertised by Good Sam, but tow, rental and a small per-diem were included in coverage. And I was NOT STRANDED for hours. A+++