Catastrophic tire blow-out in an Interstate

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

My experience with Michelin is summed up in the statement Ralph Nader used to describe the Chevrolet Corvair - "Unsafe at any speed". My own history with Michelin tires:

1 - on my 1994 AS Land Yacht Motorhome, in 2006 the youngest tire was a Michelin on the lefft inside rear and it blew taking out the side panel.

2 - on my 1987 Excella (curently my only AS), I had all the wheels replaced with 16" rims and new Michelin M+S tires (load range E) at JC, including the spare. They came with a 7 year Michelin warranty. At year 3, I had a tread separation on the right front tire. The tire never lost pressure, the tread just peeled off, but damaged the banana wrap in front of it. JC did the repair and Michelin, after months of communications, as a "goodwill" gesture (note: they did not admit to any liability), covered the cost of the repair and the cost of a new tire. I had read that Michelin's website listed recalled lot numbers. So I asked Michelin what about the remaining tires and was assured that their engineers had certified the lot as being fine. Six months later, I had my AS serviced at JC and all the runniung gear checked. I left JC on a Wednesday morning and on Friday afternoon I had another catastrophic failure - this time on the right rear tire which also bent a frame outrigger as well as damaging the banana wrap. I managed to get the spare on and continue towards my destination. The next day (Saturday afternoon) I had another catastrophic failure, this time the left rear tire tread separated and blew, taking out the roadside banana wrap and part of the waste plumbing (fortunately the Thetford valves kept the tanks from emptying). I was left roadside on I-10 near Deming NM and waited for Good Sam to send me 4 new tires. In total, damages were about $12,000 to my AS, part of which my insurers covered. I was $3,000 out of pocket. Michelin refused to cover any part of the damages or tires.

I had had Michelin tires on my TV. My TPMS showed me that at highway speeds the temperature of the Michelin tires rose almost 20 degrees above the ambient temperature. I changed to Cooper tires and I noticed that the tempertures at highway speed are not nearly as hot as when I used Michelin tires.

My conclusion is that Michelin and any tires that they manufacture are unsafe with a useless warranty. The WBCCI is now promoting deals on Michelin tires - It's a bad decision by our club that may have severe legal repercussions.

I agree completely, especially with last paragraph.I knew a lot of Semi owners who absolutely would not put Michelins on a big rig, and lots of big Motor home owners, who would not use a Michelin either.Exactly for failures/ blowouts you described.Michelins are notoriously "Soft" tires.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

It is exactly the same as the TST just re-branded.

Too late to edit my post but I meant to say it is the same as the Tire Minder NOT TST. Maybe a mod can fix my earlier post to avoid future mis-understandings?

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Next topic:

WAS THERE ANY WARNING OF THIS BLOW-OUT?

Yes and no. The problem yesterday was that I had a rear cross-wind, which is the absolute worst kind. It was the kind that blows your tail out from under you. So in the few seconds prior to the tire disintegration, yes, I felt something. But I had been carefully watching the flags (literally the American and Texas flags on flagpoles along the freeway, because that’s how I always monitor wind conditions - I look at what every successive flag is doing as I proceed) and the flags told me that yes, I should expect my rear end to be shoved sideways.

Aside: For those of you with newer Interstates, our older first-gen Interstate models (2004 - 2007) do not have any lane assist feature. We are entirely dependent on our own brains for that.

What was different in yesterday’s case, though, was that in the few seconds before the disintegration, what I detected was more rhythmic than normal wind effects. There was a fish-tailing overprint to it, and I thought to myself, “That’s an extremely weird wind.” I dropped my speed down by about 10 mph in response to it, it was so weird (which may have saved my life).

If this had been a calm day and I had begun to detect those same effects, oh hell yes, I would have had a few seconds warning that something was profoundly wrong.

It could have been a tire defect that led to its deflation and then disintegration. Or I could have hit something that resulted in the same outcome. The freeway was clean, however. I did not see any debris that could have done that. I was only about 20 miles into my journey (I had left a client site after work) and I was well-rested, felt very good physically. I was paying strict attention and I did not see any debris.

2/3

Friends don't let friends buy Michelin tires.
I responded to another post here, agreeing with their take on Michelins.
Put some Hankook tires on that rig.Sell those on the rig now to a Michelin fan.You'll save yourself the Michelin drama.
Also, going with AAA towing will save you the towing drama, if needed in future.

[Rocinante]

So glad you are both safe and healthy after that experience. Another strong "yes" vote here for adding a TPMS after ensuring you have steel valve stems so any exterior sensors cannot weaken the rubber valve stem and cause a leak. (Given you don't have dual rear wheels, no advice related to that issue would be relevant, though I have plenty to say about those based on bitter personal experience.)

We have a TPMS from Truck Systems Technologies for our Interstate, and we like it very much. No false alarms to date on our van, BTW (though we've had several - every alert we got was legit). This is our second TPMS from them, since we sold the first one along with our trailer before we bought our van. Based on what I've read from other members, there are other equally good brands to be found, though TST is the one with which we are familiar.

(edited by yours truly for clarity)

[uncle_bob]

Hi

TPMS setups are a varied lot. Some respond very quickly. You get a bunch of false alarms as a result. People complain and systems get "updated". Slower response gets you fewer false alarms.

How slow is slow? Some folks have reported "minutes" sort of response times. How accurate are those numbers? Who knows. What is commonly reported are TPMS systems that don't react fast enough in a blow out / quick deflation event. (... "the TPMS alarm went off after we pulled to the side of the road"....).

Does this mean those systems are worthless? Nope. It simply means you are asking it to do something it's not good at. They *are* good at detecting a slow leak or other "static" cases of low pressure.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

So glad you are both safe and healthy after that experience. Another strong "yes" vote here for adding a TPMS after ensuring you have steel valve stems so any exterior sensors cannot weaken the rubber valve stem and cause a leak. (Given you don't have dual rear wheels, no advice related to that issue would be relevant, though I have plenty to say about those based on bitter personal experience.)

We have a TPMS from Truck Systems Technologies for our Interstate, and we like it very much. No false alarms to date, BTW (though we've had several - every alert we got was legit). This is our second TPMS from them, since we sold the first one along with our trailer before we bought our van and our second TPMS from them.

Agree; TST works great! As for Michelins vs "other's"....opinions vary here for sure...I have never had a Michelin issue in over 20 years running ;that's all I run is Michelins...as Capri Racer says, there was likely another issue which caused the blowout, and I would be curious to find it; contact Michelin about your problem for sure. Be curious also about payload as was mentioned earlier. Please let us know what you find out..

[InterBlog]

Brief update - No damage to contact surface detectable to either us or the tire seller. I can’t take possession of it because the retailer has to return it to Michelin for forensics.

I have a video I’ll upload to YouTube when I get a chance.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Agree; TST works great! As for Michelins vs "other's"....opinions vary here for sure...I have never had a Michelin issue in over 20 years running ;that's all I run is Michelins...as Capri Racer says, there was likely another issue which caused the blowout, and I would be curious to find it; contact Michelin about your problem for sure. Be curious also about payload as was mentioned earlier. Please let us know what you find out..

I’ve had a TST TPMS on my Interstate for last six years with no issues or false alarms. Do make sure you add metal valve stems when adding screw-on TPMS sensors.

Also have used Michelin tires exclusively on my last three vans with over 40 years of trouble free service.

My only other thought on reading this is that the Michelin Defender tire has been out of production for some time now. I wonder what the date code is on the failed tire?

IB - glad you got through this disaster safely.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

TPMS setups are a varied lot. Some respond very quickly. You get a bunch of false alarms as a result. People complain and systems get "updated". Slower response gets you fewer false alarms.

How slow is slow? Some folks have reported "minutes" sort of response times. How accurate are those numbers? Who knows. What is commonly reported are TPMS systems that don't react fast enough in a blow out / quick deflation event. (... "the TPMS alarm went off after we pulled to the side of the road"....).

Does this mean those systems are worthless? Nope. It simply means you are asking it to do something it's not good at. They *are* good at detecting a slow leak or other "static" cases of low pressure.

Bob

Bob, while the Tire Traker states in the manual that it can take minutes to update what you see on the monitor it emphasizes that all sensors are monitored in real time, meaning that if there is an event such as a pressure drop or rise outside of the parameters the alarm will immediately sound and the monitor will report the offending location at the same instant. So while the monitor screen updates at regular intervals which may be several minutes apart the actual monitoring and event reporting is constant and without delay. There is also an update button you can press if you want an update at any time.

[tjdonahoe]

Low air pressure, nail, or a leaky valve stem...hold old are the valve stems...rubber deterates...even brass stems have rubber seals and should be replaced when installing new tires

[Vlamgat]

Two things strike me from this thread:[LIST]No one has mentioned the weight of the coach. When did you weight it last with the typical load. The CCC of these rigs is quite low for amount of "stuff" they can carry.Was your pressure set at the max for the tire spec before departure? If you bled down or set at a lower pressure, how did you interpret what should have been?

Someone has already mentioned the valves - the rubber ones do blow out/fail.

Michelin went through a bad patch from the late 90s through the early 2000s with all their 16" light truck tires. Of course they rejected all claims until a class action law suit was mustered and then there was a gig settlement. I had 2 blow outs on these within 25 miles of each other, same position, on I-35 under construction so nowhere to park which eventually shut down the freeway to get me out as I no longer had a spare. I changed the first failure myself. I have not heard of the problem returning but you may have the bleeding edge here.

Your Good Sam experience is not unusual in my experience. They have very limited skills on the other end of the phone and with that deficit comes an adherence to the play book that borders on religion. Their job is to get you recovered but not to do it within any specific time frame. And if their preferred service supplier is helping another at the time of your call, you just get in line. I still use them but as soon as I hang up I sit down with my tablet and Google and start dialling for local truck support. In the last 4 incidents over the last 2 years (all tires), 100% of the time the local suppliers came through before Good Sam even called me back to let me know they had a XY hours delay. Yes, in one case they could not get me help for 13 hours.

The most important thing is that you had your own spare. If you do not you may not get recovered if your rig is too big for the available tows. Flat beds like this incident recovery are not that common.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

My experience with Michelin is summed up in the statement Ralph Nader used to describe the Chevrolet Corvair - "Unsafe at any speed". My own history with Michelin tires:

1 - on my 1994 AS Land Yacht Motorhome, in 2006 the youngest tire was a Michelin on the lefft inside rear and it blew taking out the side panel.

2 - on my 1987 Excella (curently my only AS), I had all the wheels replaced with 16" rims and new Michelin M+S tires (load range E) at JC, including the spare. They came with a 7 year Michelin warranty. At year 3, I had a tread separation on the right front tire. The tire never lost pressure, the tread just peeled off, but damaged the banana wrap in front of it. JC did the repair and Michelin, after months of communications, as a "goodwill" gesture (note: they did not admit to any liability), covered the cost of the repair and the cost of a new tire. I had read that Michelin's website listed recalled lot numbers. So I asked Michelin what about the remaining tires and was assured that their engineers had certified the lot as being fine. Six months later, I had my AS serviced at JC and all the runniung gear checked. I left JC on a Wednesday morning and on Friday afternoon I had another catastrophic failure - this time on the right rear tire which also bent a frame outrigger as well as damaging the banana wrap. I managed to get the spare on and continue towards my destination. The next day (Saturday afternoon) I had another catastrophic failure, this time the left rear tire tread separated and blew, taking out the roadside banana wrap and part of the waste plumbing (fortunately the Thetford valves kept the tanks from emptying). I was left roadside on I-10 near Deming NM and waited for Good Sam to send me 4 new tires. In total, damages were about $12,000 to my AS, part of which my insurers covered. I was $3,000 out of pocket. Michelin refused to cover any part of the damages or tires.

I had had Michelin tires on my TV. My TPMS showed me that at highway speeds the temperature of the Michelin tires rose almost 20 degrees above the ambient temperature. I changed to Cooper tires and I noticed that the tempertures at highway speed are not nearly as hot as when I used Michelin tires.

My conclusion is that Michelin and any tires that they manufacture are unsafe with a useless warranty. The WBCCI is now promoting deals on Michelin tires - It's a bad decision by our club that may have severe legal repercussions.

On balance, I have ran Michelin tires exclusively on my cars, service trucks and my 25 Semi Dump Trucks for the last 40 years without one single tire failure. I used them religiously on the front wheels of the Semi Tractors would retread them and continued using them on the dump trailers.
I had bad luck with Firestone, Bridgestone and a real bad one with the cursed Good Years on the AS with a blow out on I-4 causing $ 9k worth of damage to our 30' International.

[tjdonahoe]

I have to disagree with you on the michelin tires..I run many on my big trucks...no problems..and when loaded there is 15-17000#s on the steer axle...going down the road 65 mph...

[rburbach]

We have the TST TPMS on our 2019 Airstream Atlas. Three of the 4 (we replaced the original 2 which failed) long extensions from the inner of the dual rear wheels developed cracks, losing air pressure, once rapidly. We have placed the sender for the inner rear wheels next to the wheel. Seems to work well. The senders have always send accurate tire pressure readings.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by rburbach

We have the TST TPMS on our 2019 Airstream Atlas. Three of the 4 (we replaced the original 2 which failed) long extensions from the inner of the dual rear wheels developed cracks, losing air pressure, once rapidly. We have placed the sender for the inner rear wheels next to the wheel. Seems to work well. The senders have always send accurate tire pressure readings.

Definitely an excellent point for those with dual rear wheels...don't ask me how I know, what a horrible experience that was. We've since replaced our inner valve stems and added quality stainless steel mesh valve extensions that are firmly clipped onto the outer wheel, which prevents wobbling, valve stem leaks, etc. Same solution you will commonly see on emergency vehicles such as ambulances, fire trucks, etc., with dual rear wheels.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

On balance, I have ran Michelin tires exclusively on my cars, service trucks and my 25 Semi Dump Trucks for the last 40 years without one single tire failure. I used them religiously on the front wheels of the Semi Tractors would retread them and continued using them on the dump trailers.
I had bad luck with Firestone, Bridgestone and a real bad one with the cursed Good Years on the AS with a blow out on I-4 causing $ 9k worth of damage to our 30' International.

The Goodyear Marathons get a bad wrap. They state very clearly what their limits are. Speed rated to 65 mph, and modest load limits also. Then people seem surprised when they fail..... Very unfortunate.

[amxpress]

I’m with the group curious on details of the tire such as size, load range, tire pressure at the time, etc.
I had a set of Michelin LTX on my 2500 RAM which gave me excellent service for almost 40,000 miles.

[Louie Dee]

Had the same Good Sam experience here in Colorado in a remote area where we lived. Called someone else and they were there fast. Only good thing I can say is after GS investigated the "dropped Ball" through recordings, they gave us a Lifetime membership. If I had to point to the GS error, it focused on a zero receptionist at the other end of the call telling us we were not covered.

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

I had had Michelin tires on my TV. My TPMS showed me that at highway speeds the temperature of the Michelin tires rose almost 20 degrees above the ambient temperature. I changed to Cooper tires and I noticed that the tempertures at highway speed are not nearly as hot as when I used Michelin tires.

My conclusion is that Michelin and any tires that they manufacture are unsafe with a useless warranty. The WBCCI is now promoting deals on Michelin tires - It's a bad decision by our club that may have severe legal repercussions.

Which Cooper tires did you buy? My GYMs have aged out.

[Barretta2]

Even nerves of steel have their limits. I’ve towed Houston’s interstates in rush hours and it is NO FUN.. so glad you are ok. And, will be interested in learning the cause of this spectacular tire failure. Assume you are chatting with Michelin ?