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09-22-2016, 11:16 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2008 31' Classic
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Lenoir City
, Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 264
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Bio diesel
I think I remember some negative comments about bio diesel. Well, we're traveling around Minnesota and that's the only diesel to be found. What damage are we doing?
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Kelly & Matt
WBCCI - #4335
2005 Diesel Excursion
2008 31' Custom Classic "Moonshine"
2016 Interstate "BugOut"
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09-22-2016, 11:22 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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I used Biodiesel in a couple of tanks going through Nebraska. I know some manufacturers specify up to B5 only, although the pumps I used in Nebraska only stated the biodiesel was between 5 and 20 so I don't know what level I pumped. I have a 2015 Ram 2500 Cummins which is supposed to be good up to B20. I didn't experience any issues.
Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
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09-22-2016, 11:38 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern
, California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
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Bio diesel
The issue is warranty. Mercedes Benz states no more than 5% bio, or B5. If you run a higher percentage of bio in your MB and have a problem, I can see where they could deny warranty coverage......
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09-22-2016, 12:27 PM
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#4
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr
The issue is warranty. Mercedes Benz states no more than 5% bio, or B5. If you run a higher percentage of bio in your MB and have a problem, I can see where they could deny warranty coverage......
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Biodiesel over B5 will damage the Mercedes BlueTec DEF system— and void the warranty for repairing same.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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09-22-2016, 01:19 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern
, California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
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Bio diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Biodiesel over B5 will damage the Mercedes BlueTec DEF system— and void the warranty for repairing same.
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To further Protag's point, I found this:
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In the case of Mercedes-Benz, their advanced BlueTEC diesel engines inject some fuel on the exhaust stroke, but since biodiesel has a higher flash point than petroleum diesel, the biodiesel does not combust allowing the biodiesel to collect inside the crankcase of the engine itself. This crankcase sludging is irreversible and over time can lead to catastrophic engine failure.
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The big worry here is the comment that the sludging is "irreversible", indicating that even limited use of anything greater than B5 can cause permanent harm.....
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09-22-2016, 01:33 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,067
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I don't know that you're doing any damage, unless it is specifically prohibited for your engine.
We have always put it in ours.
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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09-22-2016, 02:33 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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I don't understand why VW and Mercedes diesel vehicles are only good to B5 with all their experience in diesels. All it takes is the bureaucrats to force all states to pump B20 to render VW and Mercedes diesel vehicles doorstops. I would never purchase a diesel that wasn't B20 compatible. As I stated the biodiesel pumps I experienced never stated the exact blend.
Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
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09-22-2016, 02:59 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
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Without testing, you cannot know the levels of Bio waste in the Diesel stock. Here in Texas, we are told "diesel is blended at the local distribution center to match customer specifications because it will separate after time making delivery of specific fuel is not possible ...".... soooooooo.... why is this "requirement" allowed to affect products sold in the US?
It should be noted, even gasoline dispensed with single hose pumps will vary based upon the previous fuel pumped. Businesses selling gasoline will not guarantee the fuel you purchase until 5 gallons of your selected flavor has flowed through the system. (Texas Ag Comm who regulates the verification pumps 5 gallons for each gasoline available at the pump, then capturing test sample) That was a hassle with our motorcycles, yard maintenance, etc...
Texas Ag Comm told us "only buy lower grade fuel and you won't be cheated. Also, if you pump at least 20 gallons into your auto, you should not notice very much difference in performance"
hmmm.. why?
Anyway, sounds like if you change your engine oil and filter more often you should minimize the impact of this federal mandate... That is what I do on my Chevy.
Sure glad we are 'saving resources'... "good luck".
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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09-22-2016, 03:47 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern
, California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
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Bio diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily&Me
I don't know that you're doing any damage, unless it is specifically prohibited for your engine.
We have always put it in ours.
Maggie
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Anything over B5 IS prohibited by the engine manufacturer (Mercedes Benz), and now we know why.
Bottom line appears to be to only use diesel with no bio or at most 5%.
EDIT: I just read a fed govt article that states vendors don't have to mark pumps as containing bio-diesel as long as the blend is less than 5%. So.....it
looks like in the US we have no way of knowing if a pump contains any bio-mass because our govt lets the vendor "hide" that info. Nice.......
The "good news" is if a pump contains MORE than 5% bio, it has to be marked as such so at least we can't pump B20 without knowing it....
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09-22-2016, 07:14 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1991 25' Excella
Stanfield
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 317
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Bio diesel is a great fuel, but unfortunately not all vehicle manufacturers are ready for it. It takes certain seals in order to handle bio diesel detergents and not all dpfs/docs can handle it.
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09-22-2016, 08:59 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2011 Interstate Coach
Overland Park
, Kansas
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,798
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Use biodiesel at your own peril cuz the emission sensors are expensive. Had two NOX sensors replaced to the tune of $1,500. Not bio related, MB got the software wrong and caused them to overheat.
__________________
Glass half full or half empty to an engineer is the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
2011 Interstate SOLD! Upfitted 2017 Transit 350. SOLD!
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09-23-2016, 08:48 AM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Pittsburgh
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 175
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Many people have different opinions on what level of biodiesel is allowed or acceptable in an Interstate. However, it all depends on the make and year of the unit. The engines have changed over the past ten years or so and so has the emissions hardware and software. I am sure the 5% biodiesel limit is correct for the more recent Interstates.
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09-23-2016, 09:02 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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Does the engine change every year or two or is it just the computer controller emissions equipment?
If all diesels had DEF systems would there be a need for bio blends?
Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
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09-23-2016, 10:03 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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There's no need for bio diesel now. It's all pc stuff.
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09-23-2016, 10:17 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern
, California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie
Does the engine change every year or two or is it just the computer controller emissions equipment?
If all diesels had DEF systems would there be a need for bio blends?
Kelvin
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I think the bio blending has more to do with politics and reducing reliance on foreign oil than with the environment. Someone else can chime in here but I think even 100% bio-fuel would still pollute, it would just be a different mix of offending particles.......
And regarding earlier Sprinters being ok to use anything above B5, that's not the case. MB never approved the use of anything greater than 5% bio, apparently due to concerns over production quality, per some articles on the subject, but I find that interesting because it somewhat contradicts the other story about sludging. What ever the case really is, MB never approved above B5 in its diesel Sprinters and problems that arise from using it will apparently void your warranty, so be warned.........
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09-23-2016, 11:51 AM
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#16
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3 Rivet Member
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
-
, VT, AZ, CA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 106
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I think the article from which FlyFishinRVr extracted the quote above is worth reading in full: http://breakingenergy.com/2014/07/30...ame-biodiesel/
Infuriating that our engines will be ruined just so ignorant people can feel good about themselves, saving the planet.
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09-23-2016, 12:07 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Northern
, California
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,299
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Bio diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by don000
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Actually my source for that info came straight from Mercedes Benz. Take note of their comment on page 8 of that doc that states "Due to quality variations........"
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf
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09-23-2016, 12:10 PM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
-
, VT, AZ, CA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr
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Very interesting brochure, thanks for the link. It seems to have been used as a source document for the article I linked.
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09-23-2016, 12:29 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Muskogee
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don000
I think the article from which FlyFishinRVr extracted the quote above is worth reading in full: http://breakingenergy.com/2014/07/30...ame-biodiesel/
Infuriating that our engines will be ruined just so ignorant people can feel good about themselves, saving the planet.
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Your rath is misdirected. It is the farming and bio refinery industry that have pushed the bio fuel mandate. It is profit, not environmental, that is to blame. It is not ignorance, but greed. Harvesting mass amounts of plants for fuel is actually harmful to the environment as much if not more so than fossil fuels.
__________________
2011 Interstate WD/Lounge (since sold).
2020 Leisure Van WonderRTB
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09-23-2016, 12:50 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmillerok1
Your rath is misdirected. It is the farming and bio refinery industry that have pushed the bio fuel mandate. It is profit, not environmental, that is to blame. It is not ignorance, but greed. Harvesting mass amounts of plants for fuel is actually harmful to the environment as much if not more so than fossil fuels.
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Incorrect. Check the biomass industry fueled by environmentalists who cut down trees for fuel rather than use gas or coal.see the multimillion dollar biomass plant in Gainesville Florida for example. Sits idle now because the power produced is too expensive to sell, as well as burning up tons of biomass, trees, etc. all because of the environmentalists in the local govt. We could of had clean coal or gas instead.
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