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02-12-2022, 07:14 AM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2020 Interstate 19
Hammondsport
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 34
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Are my batteries kaput?
Hi folks,
I'm having battery / power issues and I have a theory as to the root cause but wanted to run my thinking by you to see if I might be missing something. I have a 2020 Airstream Interstate 19 Tommy Bahama edition (we call it Tommy Boy), 2019 Mercedes chassis.
I wrote about our state of affairs as of October here: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...aw-228727.html
We have just about everything that wasn't working in the van fixed now. We bought it used and quite damaged last summer. A/C is fixed, awning works, sliding step works, water pump works, etc. etc.
Here's what we see happening now:
- After plugging into shore power for a long enough period to fully charge the batteries (e.g., overnight), or driving quite a while to achieve the same, our monitor shows the battery in low 12v range.
- Assuming we don't have very high levels of sunlight / solar, within 10 minutes the battery level will fall to around 10.4 - 10.6v.
- If we are in sunlight (we are in sunny Phoenix right now) it might work its way back into the mid 11s at best, and stay pretty stable there.
- Once we hit that floor of around 10.4v, things largely stabilize and we can run water pump, keep lights on, even run the inverter and TV for a while. We are also able to keep the fridge running at 1 or 2 dots overnight. We just finished a three day backpacking trip away from the van and it was able to keep the fridge running at 1 dot while we were gone, presumably because the solar was strong enough to bring it back enough during the day.
I originally thought I had some dramatic parasitic draw happening, and now I'm convinced we have a battery quality issue. When my nephew was doing some initial work on the van last summer (we bought it from his uncle) he replaced the Lifeline batteries with Optima Yellowtop D31T batteries. I spent a lot of time in December with an Optima digital charger trying to resuscitate the batteries and thought I got them back to an OK state. But one battery was clearly in more distress than the other. Neither one would charge up to the advertised high 12s or even 13v level.
It my thinking on track here? I've heard the Optima quality has been inconsistent over the past few years. With some help I think I can replace the batteries myself but am unsure how to further diagnose without going to a shop. I'd hate to do this only to learn that I have a deeper issue with the charging system etc.
Also, I think the original batteries were GPL-24T AGM. Does this sound right?
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02-12-2022, 08:43 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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First, your Optima yellow top batteries are probably shot. The voltages that you indicated are far below what 'normal' properly charged batteries function at. Lifelines for example, run between 12.2 and 13.2VDC when properly charged. Your indicated 10.X voltages of your yellow tops is far below proper operating voltage for a normal battery pack.
I would simply junk the Optimas and go back to your original Lifeline batteries. They are warranteed for 5 years and will probably resolve the remainder of your electrical problems.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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02-12-2022, 01:54 PM
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#3
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,735
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Hi
+1
Optimas are fine for some things. They are not fine for RV use (at least not the ones I've seen).
I would double check to make sure the voltage readings are correct. Folks have had problems with the various "chassis mounted" voltage readout gizmos. If you haven't done so already, spend $30 at the local big box store. Get a multimeter and double check what your monitor is telling you.
It's a good bet that yes, you do need new batteries. Still, verify the numbers.
These days any time you look at replacing batteries with *good* ones, at least look into lithium. The only point being to understand what the next step up will cost ( and provide ) before you spend money.
Bob
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02-13-2022, 05:10 AM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
2017 Interstate Lounge Ext
Mount Jackson
, VA
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 120
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I concur that your batteries are kaput. I think they were not up to the task. We bought replacements from batteryguys.com and very pleased with their customer service. They answered my questions without making me feel dumb and we received our Lifeline GPL-24T batteries in a timely manner. They are not cheap, but in this case it’s best not to go thrifty. The batteries are the heart of so much in an AI and I am not a fan of running the generator which needs a decent battery to start. We replaced house batteries and chassis battery in the fall but they were original to the 2016 build.
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02-13-2022, 06:35 AM
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#5
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2 Rivet Member
2020 Interstate 19
Hammondsport
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 34
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Thanks all for the help. I’ve relied so much on this forum to guide me through these past 9 months. Y’all never fail to deliver.
I’m going to test voltage directly in the next day or so with my multimeter. Good advice, though I’ll be shocked if it reads differently based on the behavior I’m seeing.
The irony of the design is that we can’t even start the generator when the batteries are this depleted. We can usually start it right after a long drive.
Sadly I think the Lifeline AGM GPL-24T are out of stock everywhere. I’m on a “notify me” list with batteryguys.com but I feel like it might be 2-3 months before I see anything. Any other ideas? Maybe it is worth calling Airstream dealers / servicers to see if there are any in supply there.
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02-13-2022, 08:31 AM
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#6
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavemanB
Thanks all for the help. I’ve relied so much on this forum to guide me through these past 9 months. Y’all never fail to deliver.
I’m going to test voltage directly in the next day or so with my multimeter. Good advice, though I’ll be shocked if it reads differently based on the behavior I’m seeing.
The irony of the design is that we can’t even start the generator when the batteries are this depleted. We can usually start it right after a long drive.
Sadly I think the Lifeline AGM GPL-24T are out of stock everywhere. I’m on a “notify me” list with batteryguys.com but I feel like it might be 2-3 months before I see anything. Any other ideas? Maybe it is worth calling Airstream dealers / servicers to see if there are any in supply there.
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Hi
You can head over to Costco and grab a pair of whatever they have on sale this week. They typically have some sort of Group 24 deep cycle battery (it needs to be deep cycle rated) for $75 or less. Not the best thing for long term. They should at lest run for a year or two.
The other alternative is to upgrade to lithium. No, that's not a winner in the "out of pocket this week" race. Long term, it wins out cost wise.
Bob
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02-13-2022, 01:57 PM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
2020 Interstate 19
Hammondsport
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
You can head over to Costco and grab a pair of whatever they have on sale this week. They typically have some sort of Group 24 deep cycle battery (it needs to be deep cycle rated) for $75 or less. Not the best thing for long term. They should at lest run for a year or two.
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Great idea that I hadn't considered. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of way-better-than-now!"
We will be selling the van later this spring so a solution like this might help out a lot in the interim.
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02-14-2022, 06:51 AM
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#8
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavemanB
Great idea that I hadn't considered. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of way-better-than-now!"
We will be selling the van later this spring so a solution like this might help out a lot in the interim.
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Hi
No problem.
There are a *lot* of folks who pretty much are never off grid. For them the "Costco answer" is the right one. They never do much with the batteries and there is no justification to go to lithium. We tend to focus on the exotic ( I want to boondocks for months running the A/C on solar ...) in various threads. It's easy to miss out on the "rest of the crowd".
Bob
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02-23-2022, 06:07 PM
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#9
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1 Rivet Member
2017 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bremerton
, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
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Agreed that the batteries are kaput, but I would not put AGM batteries back in. Go with LiFePo batteries. The lithium Iron batteries are absolutely better than any of the old lead acids.
Yes, they are expensive, but look at it like this, with the AGM batteries, you can only really use 50% max of the batteries. So you will have a max available of 100ah. If you go with just 100ah Lithium Irons, you have access to all 100ah, so 200ah total for just the 2 batteries.
Personally, I would go with 1 or 2 270ah batteries from BattleBorn, or a decent sized SOK. I will never go back to lead acid, they are crap.
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02-24-2022, 10:14 AM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
2020 Interstate 19
Hammondsport
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 34
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I hear you @PNWnChill, but we plan to sell the van by June of this year. I found a Batteries Plus in Phoenix area that had two AGM Group 24 Duracells in stock and installed them myself on Sunday. That was fun. Just have a smashed right index finger to show for it.
Things are so much better now! We are on shore power now in Big Bend of the Colorado SRA (Nevada) so battery isn't as much of a deal, but we boondocked Sunday night and things just worked. What a relief.
Thanks again all for the help.
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02-24-2022, 10:24 AM
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#11
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,210
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Glad things are working well! Given you stayed with AGM batteries, keep an eye on their state of charge any time you're camping or parking without being plugged into shore power. Airstream Interstates are famous for quickly destroying perfectly good AGM coach batteries by repeatedly draining them to the point of damaging the battery. We experienced this ourselves having bought a gently used AI with AGM batteries that were less than a year old. Those batteries had been completely ruined by the previous owner in this way, because they were clueless about how mean the AI can be to standard coach batteries if one is not paying very close attention.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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03-09-2022, 03:32 PM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Basking Ridge
, New Jersey
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante
Glad things are working well! Given you stayed with AGM batteries, keep an eye on their state of charge any time you're camping or parking without being plugged into shore power. Airstream Interstates are famous for quickly destroying perfectly good AGM coach batteries by repeatedly draining them to the point of damaging the battery. We experienced this ourselves having bought a gently used AI with AGM batteries that were less than a year old. Those batteries had been completely ruined by the previous owner in this way, because they were clueless about how mean the AI can be to standard coach batteries if one is not paying very close attention.
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Could you elaborate a little on this. I'm one of those with a lightly used 2014 AI Lounge XT (22K miles since new) and my second set of house batteries are pretty much shot. I'd like to replace them with new AGMs as I will be putting it up for sale later this spring/summer. What state of charge should I be keeping them above, to prevent the premature decaying?
thanks,
ScarletBison
__________________
SCARLET BISON
Silver 2014.5 Interstate EXT
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03-09-2022, 05:10 PM
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#13
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,210
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Keep the van plugged into shore power, even if it's only 15 amps, all the time while it's stored, keep the battery switch in the "use" position, and that should keep the batteries happy.
There are vampire drains in an AI that can easily draw down coach batteries. For example, if your propane switch is on, that draws power to keep the solenoid in the open position. There are additional smaller vampire drains, of course, but that's one of the worst.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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03-09-2022, 05:51 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville
, New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarletbison
Could you elaborate a little on this. I'm one of those with a lightly used 2014 AI Lounge XT (22K miles since new) and my second set of house batteries are pretty much shot. I'd like to replace them with new AGMs as I will be putting it up for sale later this spring/summer. What state of charge should I be keeping them above, to prevent the premature decaying?
thanks,
ScarletBison
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To prevent damage you should keep batteries above 50%, also known as above 12.0 volts.
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03-10-2022, 06:11 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazbro
To prevent damage you should keep batteries above 50%, also known as above 12.0 volts.
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Actually, Lifeline AGM batteries are at 50% depth of discharge when they reach 12.2 VDC. At 12.0 VDC, they are already into the danger zone and are at about 40-45% charge remaining.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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03-10-2022, 07:12 AM
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#16
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,735
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Hi
If you really dive into it .... it gets worse.
The "magic voltage" you stop using the battery at changes with temperature. If your van is sitting out in the driveway and there's snow on the ground ( like mine is right now .... ) the cutoff voltage goes up. Up by how much is a "that depends" sort of thing based on the actual battery temperature and the details of the battery innards. A half volt is not an uncommon number.
This would put your "shut down" point at 12.8V .... yikes ....
With any of these modern RV's ( my Classic is as bad as the van ) you simply can't leave them sitting with the batteries hooked up. You either need a charger on them or a full battery disconnect ( which is not the same as a use/store switch).
Even parked in the drive while I work on it, the van is plugged in with an extension cord.
Bob
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03-10-2022, 09:40 AM
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#17
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2016 19ft flying cloud
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 165
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I found that the inverter on my Airstream sucked power even when turned off
I disconnected it at the battery ,,,,they will really draw current from your batteries if used
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03-10-2022, 10:56 AM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
2015 Interstate Ext. Coach
Columbus
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazbro
To prevent damage you should keep batteries above 50%, also known as above 12.0 volts.
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Here’s a battery charge level chart I got when I replaced my original 12v AGM’s with 6v. As Lewster pointed out, at 12.2v you’re already at 50% and as UB states, temperature matters as well!
__________________
Adventure before Dementia!
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