An ordeal - Total AI bathroom teardown & remodel

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by txntravlr

Are you installing anything to use as “shower” since you replaced pull-out? I would like to replace our faucet but add a separate showering hose/mount.

TXNTRAVLR - Hey, thanks for reminding me. Don't know if you saw the latest pics I just posted. Check out that faucet. Yes, look mom, no shower head pullout. Which we really like because as a normal 1/2 bath when using as people mover, it looks and feels just like a nice 1/2 bath powder-room in your stick house. But when we need to use as shower for camping, we use an attachment that easily snaps onto the faucet aerator. IMHO it is the best of both worlds of being able to buy many other faucet choices and still have ANY fancy shower head that you can buy and attach to it. I still have not bought the final shower head coz I have some secret ideas brewing in my head, like a mini-rain head. Might be a fancy ceiling mod for future winter project

Here is my current shower head with twice the length of SS braided hose compared to the pullout. Wife & daughters really like this idea. Especially when they are showing-off the interior to their friends, the head & hose can get hidden/stored anywhere. We don't even store in bath until we arrive at campground, since we use AI a lot just as daily fam/people mover and weekender/tailgating machine. Pic taken before all the new wall mirrors were installed. I highly recommend this setup.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by wachuko

Look closely... faucet has a quick connect for shower head.

WACHUKO - the guy with the keen eye. Good spot

[txntravlr]

Great ideas, again! Making my list!

[InterBlog]

There are some *superb* ideas in this thread.

Question Alex: Who was your acrylic vendor? Any analysis given to potential issues with easy scratching in such a confined space? Scratched acrylic looks like hell. Some kinds of acrylic get scratched if you look at them wrong.

I'd already made up my mind that I need better mirrors in the Interstate - NOT for cosmetic reasons, but because I stripped half naked in a Buc-ees public restroom on Friday after picking up a type of tick that I hadn't seen before (this being on a new job site). Had to do a thorough search for others of his kind or similar species (and it was a male).

Of course I've had ticks previously, but never this species. RECOMMENDATION: If you get bit by a tick, TAKE A CELL PHONE PIC of the thing before you squash its guts out through its nose. That way there's no question as to the species of your assailant if you need to seek medical treatment. Given that I had not seen this one before, I had to take the pic and look it up several hours later on the internet.

Stripping in Buc-ees doesn't really work for me. Some ticks are extremely small in size. Mirror examination of back, under rear bra strap region, hard to reach places on the body, hard to see places, is helpful.

Acrylic is important from a weight and safety perspective, and useful because it bends. But I wonder about scratches. I would need to hang items in front of the mirror while in transit. Maybe I could have a thin piece of fabric unroll over the mirror(s) to guard against that. Still noodling on this.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

There are some *superb* ideas in this thread.

Question Alex: Who was your acrylic vendor? Any analysis given to potential issues with easy scratching in such a confined space? Scratched acrylic looks like hell. Some kinds of acrylic get scratched if you look at them wrong.

I'd already made up my mind that I need better mirrors in the Interstate - NOT for cosmetic reasons, but because I stripped half naked in a Buc-ees public restroom on Friday after picking up a type of tick that I hadn't seen before (this being on a new job site). Had to do a thorough search for others of his kind or similar species (and it was a male).

Of course I've had ticks previously, but never this species. RECOMMENDATION: If you get bit by a tick, TAKE A CELL PHONE PIC of the thing before you squash its guts out through its nose. That way there's no question as to the species of your assailant if you need to seek medical treatment. Given that I had not seen this one before, I had to take the pic and look it up several hours later on the internet.

Stripping in Buc-ees doesn't really work for me. Some ticks are extremely small in size. Mirror examination of back, under rear bra strap region, hard to reach places on the body, hard to see places, is helpful.

Acrylic is important from a weight and safety perspective, and useful because it bends. But I wonder about scratches. I would need to hang items in front of the mirror while in transit. Maybe I could have a thin piece of fabric unroll over the mirror(s) to guard against that. Still noodling on this.

INTERBLOG - Ughhhh! Ticks & bedbugs make me cringe. Yes, mirrors are not just for cosmetic reasons, as you have given a very legit example of it's use for folks like you that work in the field and maybe by yourself without anyone close by to help inspect bites by dangerous insects. But also outdoor athletes like me who are usually out on a bike ride for 8-12 hrs. and have a scrape or even simple things like sunburned areas on back.

Back to your question - 2 things to consider. LEXAN - is very strong/durable but scratches easily. ACRYLIC/Plexiglas - is not as strong but still durable but does not scratch as easily. For interior use, LEXAN is overkill (see my next post to this thread a few mins later). But both will still scratch. So they require some conscious effort to minimize scratching them. Yes, you could hang a cover on its front during transport. Or may consider not mounting permanent but just hanging it. So it can be flipped with mirror side facing wall during transport. But if you do that, you need to mount it on another flat sheet, so it's more rigid. It kinda flops around if its a very long sheet. And also edge the entire perimeter with a protective material so the sharp edges are not out in open. Its not as dangerous as glass with open edge, but nice to still edge them.

If you have owned fishtanks/aquariums before, it is no different than how you treat that acrylic fishtank. Or the acrylic on your dishwasher panel or big screen tv. Over time, if exposed to abrasives, they will scratch. So best practice is to wipe with soft cloth. Same product is used for auto instrument panel displays and all the electronic displays on gps, radio, etc. So, you maintain it same way as those. There are also many products that "polish" the surface to bring them back to looking good but only if scratches are not deep.

AFAIK the mirrors only come in acrylic. I have never seen Lexan with mirror backing. The advantage to both is light weight and safety, compared to regular mirrors or even mirrors of tempered glass. Any glass is heavier and very susceptible to stress breakage caused by vehicle movement. So, I only used glass mirror for the oblong mirror that is floating inside the door porthole. And also since that door is further protected by a full sheet of Lexan (see my next post in few minutes and you will see it's effect).

[txntravlr]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

Or may consider not mounting permanent but just hanging it. So it can be flipped with mirror side facing wall during transport.

Thinking tabs of heavy duty Velcro on corners of both sides of mirror so it could be reversed easily, yet secured... [emoji848]

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by txntravlr

Thinking tabs of heavy duty Velcro on corners of both sides of mirror so it could be reversed easily, yet secured... [emoji848]

An ingenious idea. But not necessarily practical if the mirror gets cut into a trapezoid shape, which it will, if it's to look sensible on a curved wet bath wall.

Ordinarily I'd say "Try and and see how bad the scratching becomes" but this stuff is expensive. I haven't found a good cheap(er) vendor yet.

Speaking of vendors, why is it that many of the most interesting ones are in the UK and Australia? Do we not have a potential market of 326 million of the world's wealthiest people here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AFn9M6agMc

[Alex AVI]

Day#5 - Out with shower curtain, 1st attempt to waterproof door & side panel

For whatever reason, I can not load any pics anymore. You folks will just have to imagine how my water-resistant doors & fixed panel turned out

I tried many times, different devices, phone, tablet, wireless, wire connection. My connection is not an issue, as evidenced by this text post right now. I think the forum is somehow restricting my pics/attachments but message is so cryptic that I can not figure out the issue. Never had this issue before. Oh well.


This site can’t be reached
www.airforums.com took too long to respond.
Try:
Checking the connection
ERR_TIMED_OUT

[Alex AVI]

OK, looks like whatever was happening (probably in AF server, has resolved itself)

Day#5 - Out with shower curtain, 1st attempt to waterproof door & side panel with Clear Vinyl

Apologies in advance to those who like shower curtains. I know they are great for the countless options available to decorate baths/showers and big bathrooms in general. But IMHO, shower curtains are just that - decorative items that are only effective if used in a bigger space. In a very space restrictive environment, it is a very poor choice. Consider, this - our AI already has a door and 4 walls. Why is it that only 3 walls are water-resistant? And why can't the door and fixed panel next to toilet be water-resistant too? Enter my many attempts to make them so.

1st attempt - using thick, clear polished vinyl. The type that they use for table tops or (heaven forbid) sofa covers used by my grandma. They can be bought from any crafts store in different thickness gauges. I spent hours perfecting the install. I only had the regular 3M white double edge tape. Since I was not sure I would be happy with vinyl, I decided to use that instead of stronger automotive double edge tape.



Functionally, it works great. But aesthetically, it was not perfect, at least not for me. Wife was ok with it, but I was not. I hated that it never laid flat against the wood panel/door. And then when it did, it created pockets of "sticky" areas, similar to if moisture was caught behind it. And right next to it would be floating, non stuck-on areas. It made for a very amateurish install even though the quality of the material was excellent.



It was acceptable in my eyes. Would do the job of water-resisting. But I could not get past the uneven, wavy, ripply look. I knew I wanted a better look. A look that would come close to most solid surface installs. Plus I really hate that plastic trim in the interior part of door. I have an order for the alu outside trim to put on inside porthole.

So after much time, money, & hesitation, I ripped it all down. All that hard work down the drain .

[wachuko]

That reference to sofa covers Grandma used was hilarious!! Grandma had those as well, LOL!!!!

What about having it cover in 3M clear film (or other brand) like what they use in the cars?

[txntravlr]

https://goo.gl/images/s3gNbw

For any of you who know “men on film” from in living color! (Sorry, Alex, but was just opportune time after reading your post!!!

[Alex AVI]

Day#6 - Enter LEXAN and Acrylic.

I started with LEXAN at 1/8" stock. The door size is 65"×20". The fixed panel is 62"×24". After I had cut the LEXAN panels to size, I realized they are very heavy. Too heavy to be supported by the 3M automotive door moulding double-sided waterproof tape I wanted to use. VHB tape was not an option for this as having the entire perimeter with VHB would have renderered the entire panel 100% permanent (or very difficult to ever remove at best). I can not take that risk. At some point, I can see me wanting to re-decorate. So a strong tape (even if not the strongest) BUT removable is the prudent choice. Luckily, I have not yet routered the edge of the panels to follow the template for the fixed side panel. The fixed side panel is very irregular. Only 1 side is straight. The other 3 sides follow a curvy fiberglass mold, so templating is the only option.



To minimize weight & very costly LEXAN, for the next panels, I stepped down from 1/8" LEXAN to 1/16" Acrylic. FYI - LEXAN is 3x the cost of Acrylic. So, only buy LEXAN for applications that truly need it, i.e. outside or heavy abuse applications. Acrylic panels that are supported by the door & fixed panel does not need the strength of LEXAN. IMHO LEXAN would be overkill. It cost $200 just for the panels alone, no special cuts.



The other advantages of going 1/16" is the panel bends more to conform to irregular surfaces. And I did not have to move the door latch & strike assemblies or shave the frame reveal/edge-stop-pillar to accommodate the extra depth. Otherwise, the door would stick outside of frame very noticeably.



Using a router freehand on acrylic is not easy. It will grab and could cause very unèven edges. So rather than using my standard issue Craftsman router, I bought a bit-set for using my Dremmel rotary as a mini-router. I already had the mini-router adapter, so it was only $35 expense. That proved to be the best tool for the job, excellent speed control and cuts are almost as smooth as my regular router bits. Not e the needed notch on bottom left corner of door to clear the small f-glass edge. Necessary because the width of the acrylic is 1" wider than door so it overlaps the bath framing for protecting that small strip as soon as door slams shut.



And finally, the finished product that I can be very satisfied with.

Besides, if this did not work, Corian was the next step. Glad it did not come to that.
The advantages of solid surface, the light weight of acrylic, keeping the original look of the dark wood, and spaciousness & reflectivity of a mirrored deep clear-coated finish with the durability of plastic/plexi. What more can I ask for. Final install done without screws to keep the wood less blemished than existing holes already do. Used 3M 38583 1/4" advanced auto exterior attachment rubberized tape on entire perimeter. Comes in multi sizes too.


NOTE - regular glass mirror is safely inside door porthole in floating install with the acrylic panel protecting occupants if it ever broke. The alu outside trim will be installed on this side also. That is on forever wait as typical AS parts seems to be nowadays. That will have to be modified in order to keep the door acrylic sheet intact. Need to shave it's lip used to mount the opaque glass so it lays flat on top of acrylic sheet. That will be glued and installed with faux screw heads for visual effect.

[txntravlr]

Looks amazing - great job! [emoji1316]

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Question Alex: Who was your acrylic vendor?

INTERBLOG - Sorry forgot to answer this. I go to Cal a lot, TAP Plastics has been my go to for decades now. Big supplier. Locally in LV my supplier is WELCH Plastics. They are also a custom fabricator for the casinos, so we have many items fabricated by them through the years.

Originally Posted by wachuko

What about having it cover in 3M clear film (or other brand) like what they use in the cars?

WACHUKO - Oh, gosh, man, I tried really hard to have Eco Tint do the bath using XPEL or LLUMAR paint protection or even the car wrap. They said it will not work all that well on fiberglass and wood products. I am not sure exactly what/where the weak link is. But they guaranteed me it will eventually fail starting on the edges. Supposedly these products are meant to work on painted car surfaces. They wont do the chromed parts of AI grill and license plate holder and the black plastic side mirrors. I even begged to waive their guarantee. They said dont waste my money.

[rmkrum]

I guess they are being honest with you. Kinda nice to hear, but not what you wanted...

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

I guess they are being honest with you. Kinda nice to hear, but not what you wanted...

RMKRUM - Yeah, that would've been the easy route coz I would not had to do a lot of fabrication with templates if they installed the car paint protection stuff. But I have known them for 20 yrs. and they never steer me wrong. So I trust it won't work. And I got to practice working with LEXAN & Acrylic. So all in all, it worked out & cheaper

[wachuko]

But will you not get condensation between the plexiglass and the wood? I would have thought that anything, outside of some kind of clear adhesive material, would have issues with condensation and mold.

I do not like the shower curtain either... but I can't think of a better option for now... Wished they had molded a similar gel coated fiberglass finish on the whole bathroom so it did not required the use of a curtain...

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by wachuko

But will you not get condensation between the plexiglass and the wood? I would have thought that anything, outside of some kind of clear adhesive material, would have issues with condensation and mold.

I do not like the shower curtain either... but I can't think of a better option for now... Wished they had molded a similar gel coated fiberglass finish on the whole bathroom so it did not required the use of a curtain...

WACHUKO - No, condensation wI'll not occur. I used 3M 38583 automotive exterior attachment double-sided rubberized tape to form a weather tight seal around the entire perimeter of both the door and fixed panel. This is also why I did not want to make screw holes anywhere on panel. Imagine a double pane window - that is how my door & side panel are acting now - just like 2 big double pane windows. Condensation can occur in double glazed windows if the surface temperature of the window is cooler than the air inside the room. But my "double panes" are always at the same temp since their temp tracks the AI inside temp.

If my sealant around my DIY double glazing fails, then the warm air from my taking a hot shower is susceptible to entering the gap between the plexiglass pane & wood.. When this warm air comes in contact with the colder air between the panes, it may condense. But I anticipated such an event possibly if the rubberized tape shrinks (though unlikely as this is highly used in all automotive environments, even by AS in the house conversion and body skirting). So to address the possibility of seal getting compromised, I sealed the entire perimeter with white silicone on the fixed panel and clear silicone on the door panel. IF many years down the road those 2 seals break, well . . . I would most likely be too dead to care about it anyway , Goes to show you how confident I am that no moisture will get in between the 2 panes. Seriously, though, I can easily reseal - keep in mind I stayed away from using VHB in this remodel so everything can be removed if needed.

FYI - the shower curtain, while preventing direct water contact does nothing to prevent the 100% relative indoor humidity from a steaming hot shower from being absorb by the wood door, wood panel, and wood mouldings. In the life of the AI, that would be more destructive.

Also, condensation is more apt to occur in temps 35°F or colder. Since I don't plan on keeping the interior of AI this cold, I probably eliminated one of biggest conditions that can cause condensation issues.

PS - pics also show ALL other joints in the f-glass overlaps getting silicone sealed because most of them were not sealed, only held together by the screws and plenty of overlap gaps.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Alex AVI

...
WACHUKO - Oh, gosh, man, I tried really hard to have Eco Tint do the bath using XPEL or LLUMAR paint protection or even the car wrap. They said it will not work all that well on fiberglass and wood products. I am not sure exactly what/where the weak link is. But they guaranteed me it will eventually fail starting on the edges. Supposedly these products are meant to work on painted car surfaces. They wont do the chromed parts of AI grill and license plate holder and the black plastic side mirrors. I even begged to waive their guarantee. They said dont waste my money.

ALEX - The paint protection films likely can't handle the dimensional changes in plastic and wood as temperatures change. Not as big an issue on painted metal surfaces.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

ALEX - The paint protection films likely can't handle the dimensional changes in plastic and wood as temperatures change. Not as big an issue on painted metal surfaces.

MIKE - That's gotta be it! I think they may have been trying to explain it to me. But I was probably too disappointed that they can't do it AND I was staring at finding/doing a solution myself that I couldn't hear anything past "Sorry Alex,can not do it . . . blah blah blah." I wanted the lazy man's solution - pay someone else. But as RMKRUM said, it's nice some businesses won't just take advantage of someone even if that someone insists on doing the wrong thing. Made me feel good I have given them my businesss for many years.