Airstream's Interstate Volta E1 confusion

[vanderwielen]

Airstream, as usual, did not adequately document the Volta E1 system and how it integrates with the Firefly. Yes, you can get a Volta manual, but there's more to the confusion.

To summarize, the Interstate has 4 shedable loads. The AC, Microwave, Cooktop and Truma resistive elements.

You have a 5th, unshedable load...the Volta Battery Charger.

So, when connected to shore power at any amp level, there is a chance that your Volta will begin sucking shore power amps based upon your Volta Charge Limit setting.

So, you could be connected to a 30 amp shore connection and set your firefly's shore setting to 'Manual 30 amp', but mistakenly set your Volta Charge limit it 30 amps also subsequently allowing the Volta to suck all available amps from shore.

So, does the Firefly know this? Does it shed loads correctly allowing the Volta to suck the amps? Or is the Firefly ignorant?

I need to experiment... which would not be necessary if Airstream had provided a manual and adequate documentation written 'wife friendly'.

[StogieMan]

Yup - that's Airstream for you!

Are those first four loads shed manually or is it Airstream’s EMS system shutting them down as “it” sees fit? Does the Volta system not allow shore priority passthrough and charging? My guess is that it’s that stupid EMS hall monitor that is tied to the Firefly wrongly directing traffic and IMO just introduces more trouble than good. That 5th Volta load kinda sucks as it’s going to default to it to keep it charged up first.

I don’t understand why Airstream installs that EMS module to control the loads with an E1 system in the first place. I get why they do it on their regular electrical system with a lower capacity inverter and battery bank. However, with the E1 battery and system capacity - why do it? It can’t be the wiring as you are using smaller gauge wire for that bigger battery system and it should also be able to run several appliances when not tied to shore power. I’m also pretty sure that that the inverter is a hefty one capable of running multiple loads as well. I’m at a loss as to why it’s limited to the 30a’s and then it starts shedding loads.

I hated that EMS telling me what I could run and glad that I removed it so I can run multiple major appliances at once with the Victron 3k power boost function. We partially had this discussion on another thread and if it was me, I would figure out a way to yank that darn EMS from the system albeit it will take some research. On my 2015 it was easy to pull out as I don’t have a Firefly system and the newer units do. I’ve looked at some of the newer wiring diagrams and it looks like the EMS is integrated into the Firefly system via a data cable. However, I also had to do some modifications to the wiring where the display was to get everything working correctly.

[Boxster1971]

I'm reviewing some of the posts that I missed while on my recent vacation to New Zealand and Australia.

The Firefly EMS sheds loads automatically much like the past EMS units.

The Volta system in E1 package does not allow shore power priority pass through. You set the current level you want the Volta inverter/charger to use manually. Settings are 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30A. You also set the shore power level independently via the Firefly control panel. They appear to be independent settings as mentioned by OP, vanderwielen in first post.

The EMS is there to prevent tripping a 30A breaker on the shore power side. When the Volta battery is low, and you set the Volta charger current to 30A there is nothing left for the other system on an Interstate with a 30A power cord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fhrPuPxWeE

Originally Posted by StogieMan

Yup - that's Airstream for you!

Are those first four loads shed manually or is it Airstream’s EMS system shutting them down as “it” sees fit? Does the Volta system not allow shore priority passthrough and charging? My guess is that it’s that stupid EMS hall monitor that is tied to the Firefly wrongly directing traffic and IMO just introduces more trouble than good. That 5th Volta load kinda sucks as it’s going to default to it to keep it charged up first.

I don’t understand why Airstream installs that EMS module to control the loads with an E1 system in the first place. I get why they do it on their regular electrical system with a lower capacity inverter and battery bank. However, with the E1 battery and system capacity - why do it? It can’t be the wiring as you are using smaller gauge wire for that bigger battery system and it should also be able to run several appliances when not tied to shore power. I’m also pretty sure that that the inverter is a hefty one capable of running multiple loads as well. I’m at a loss as to why it’s limited to the 30a’s and then it starts shedding loads.

I hated that EMS telling me what I could run and glad that I removed it so I can run multiple major appliances at once with the Victron 3k power boost function. We partially had this discussion on another thread and if it was me, I would figure out a way to yank that darn EMS from the system albeit it will take some research. On my 2015 it was easy to pull out as I don’t have a Firefly system and the newer units do. I’ve looked at some of the newer wiring diagrams and it looks like the EMS is integrated into the Firefly system via a data cable. However, I also had to do some modifications to the wiring where the display was to get everything working correctly.

[StogieMan]

Mike, thanks for that info and I’m probably sure that you have conveyed that to me somewhere already but like my wife says “you don’t listen very well do you?”

However, after all the reading that I’ve done and the complaints that I’ve heard of with that that Volta System - I’ll pass on it for sure and stick to Victron. I’m so happy with Victron that I’m using them for my home solar project. They’re just rock solid and work. I love the Volta concept but I think that it was Airstream of course that screwed that up as usual. I hope that they could figure it out as they’re probably taking down the Volta name in the process. Then again, I think that Volta has its own issues. Either way, I hope they can figure out a solution for Airstream owners. I’ve seen the video that SunnyApp posted and there is no way in hell that I would go through such a process to get that stupid thing working. Pull your ears as you rub your belly and pinch your nose - no way!

[Rocinante]

If Airstream could figure out how to properly build and integrate a Volta system into their vans, I'm betting it would be fine, because I don't think the fault lies with Volta, which appears in many other Class B campers and apparently without any of the drama we see from Airstream. Every complex feature Airstream adds to these vans only adds to the list of things that can and likely will go wrong with them once they leave the factory. Might have something to do with Thor parentage, as that company builds Class B vans you couldn't give me for free.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

If Airstream could figure out how to properly build and integrate a Volta system into their vans, I'm betting it would be fine, because I don't think the fault lies with Volta, which appears in many other Class B campers and apparently without any of the drama we see from Airstream. Every complex feature Airstream adds to these vans only adds to the list of things that can and likely will go wrong with them once they leave the factory. Might have something to do with Thor parentage, as that company builds Class B vans you couldn't give me for free.

I follow the Storyteller Facebook group and they have their share of Volta issues, just not as bad as what I've seen on the Airstream models. Even Winnebago had some issues with safety recalls on 2019-2022 Winnebago Travato and 2021-2022 Winnebago Boldt for wiring harness issues.

Personally, I think Volta is in trouble. They are no longer in Storyteller, Winnebago or Advanced RV vans as they have been in past years. Storyteller and Winnebago joined many others like GrechRV now using the Lithionics battery systems that use the safer Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) chemistry. Advanced RV now builds their own battery packs using Valance LFP batteries.

One of the core issues is Volta's choice to use the Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) li-ion batteries. The NMC batteries are similar to those used in most of the current Automotive Electric Vehicle. These batteries require more precise overall engineering and system design to safely control the NMC batteries.

Volta certainly is a trend setter as 48V coach batteries are quickly becoming the standard in the RV industry.

[Rocinante]

You may have a point there, will have to keep an eye out to see which way things go for Volta. Meanwhile, it would not surprise me in the least if Airstream bet on the wrong horse. For my money, one simply cannot go wrong with Victron from end to end, though the price on their batteries will certainly burn a big hole in your wallet.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

You may have a point there, will have to keep an eye out to see which way things go for Volta. Meanwhile, it would not surprise me in the least if Airstream bet on the wrong horse. For my money, one simply cannot go wrong with Victron from end to end, though the price on their batteries will certainly burn a big hole in your wallet.

Agree that Victron makes great electrical components. Volta uses two Victron 30A 48V to 12V DC-DC converter and a Victron Smart Solar controller inside the Power Distribution Hubs in the Interstate and Atlas models.

I added a second 12V Victron Smart Solar controller to my 2024 AI-19 to keep the Sprinter chassis battery charged when parked in my driveway. It makes good use of the limited solar panels on the AI-19.

[Boiny]

My 24 GTe is now one year old with only 1500 miles on it. It has been in the shop for Volta issues for 3-4 times and a total of nearly four months. They tell me it is now appropriately updated so that it won't die when stored.

So now I have it plugged in to Shore Power 30a but the display does not show that even though the cord light is blue. I am no techno genius, nor do I want to be - I simply want the thing to work consistently and correctly.

The Airstream support video seems to imply that the inverter should be in the OFF position unless needed but the display is "grayed out" and in the ON position.

HELP????

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Boiny

My 24 GTe is now one year old with only 1500 miles on it. It has been in the shop for Volta issues for 3-4 times and a total of nearly four months. They tell me it is now appropriately updated so that it won't die when stored.

So now I have it plugged in to Shore Power 30a but the display does not show that even though the cord light is blue. I am no techno genius, nor do I want to be - I simply want the thing to work consistently and correctly.

The Airstream support video seems to imply that the inverter should be in the OFF position unless needed but the display is "grayed out" and in the ON position.

HELP????

Your system is working correctly. The inverter is grayed out on the Volta display after the TSB#200 update because they enabled the inverter pass through mode when plugged into shore power.

The Volta display does not shore the shore power current level, only the charging level you set.

The shore power is shown on the FireFly displays under the Electrical page.

[Boiny]

Thanks but the Shore Power was not showing on the Firefly Display either - it was only listed as AUTO but could not be changed and listed below that was 0 power!

[Boiny]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Your system is working correctly. The inverter is grayed out on the Volta display after the TSB#200 update because they enabled the inverter pass through mode when plugged into shore power.

The Volta display does not shore the shore power current level, only the charging level you set.

The shore power is shown on the FireFly displays under the Electrical page.

Thanks but the Shore Power was not showing on the Firefly Display either - it was only listed as AUTO but could not be changed and listed below that was 0 power!

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Boiny

Thanks but the Shore Power was not showing on the Firefly Display either - it was only listed as AUTO but could not be changed and listed below that was 0 power!

Is your Volta battery being charged? Is your microwave and induction cooktop on when on shore power? If not check the circuit breakers.

The TSB#200 also changes the FireFly firmware to 7.27 and the display might be different than mine with 7.24.

[Boxster1971]

My hunch last summer that Volta was in trouble May now be true based on what I’ve read recently in Storyteller Overland and Winnebago Travato Facebook postings.

Standby for more details and word from Airstream.

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I follow the Storyteller Facebook group and they have their share of Volta issues, just not as bad as what I've seen on the Airstream models. Even Winnebago had some issues with safety recalls on 2019-2022 Winnebago Travato and 2021-2022 Winnebago Boldt for wiring harness issues.

Personally, I think Volta is in trouble. They are no longer in Storyteller, Winnebago or Advanced RV vans as they have been in past years. Storyteller and Winnebago joined many others like GrechRV now using the Lithionics battery systems that use the safer Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) chemistry. Advanced RV now builds their own battery packs using Valance LFP batteries.

One of the core issues is Volta's choice to use the Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) li-ion batteries. The NMC batteries are similar to those used in most of the current Automotive Electric Vehicle. These batteries require more precise overall engineering and system design to safely control the NMC batteries.

Volta certainly is a trend setter as 48V coach batteries are quickly becoming the standard in the RV industry.

[Gerdog]

Following

[Gerdog]

Well I bit the bullet about 6 months ago send sold our 22 Interstate 24GT and bought a new 24 Atlas e1 EVEN after reading all of the threads on this. So far my experience w the Volta system has been fairly good (i had verified that all the fixes in TSB #200 where completed and documented before taking delivery)…3 nights dry camping w limited inverter usage (no A/C) had 50% remaining charge. I am very impressed with how fast the alternator charges the batteries back up. I did have an issue w the Timberline system bucket of mechanical/aesthetic things that the dealer fixed about 3 months ago but hey this is my 3rd Airstream and I just keep coming back for more pain….LOL. With that said I have not really tested the system out fully and we are getting ready to go on the 4 week 4500 mile trip.

Curious what others who have used the system longer are setting their Volta charge amperage at when at 30 amp shore power to charge the batteries (we will be switching between full hookups and dry during the trip). Please let me know what has worked best for you and any other tips you have found related to the e1 system. And thank you for all the previous posts as it did help me considerably. Fingers crossed that the fixes completed in the service recall creates a more stable platform for us all!!

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Gerdog

. . .
Curious what others who have used the system longer are setting their Volta charge amperage at when at 30 amp shore power to charge the batteries (we will be switching between full hookups and dry during the trip). Please let me know what has worked best for you and any other tips you have found related to the e1 system. And thank you for all the previous posts as it did help me considerably. Fingers crossed that the fixes completed in the service recall creates a more stable platform for us all!!

I think most of the issues are now solved with the completion of TSB200. My system has been working properly since the dealer replaced the Power Distribution Hub last year.

I set the Volta Charge Rate to 15A or less if needed. As I recall you can set it as low as 5A, but my memory may be off as I haven't used shore power since last summer. If you set it too high the Firefly EMS will shed some of the 120VAC users like A/C, Microwave, Induction stove and heater.

From the Volta FLEX SYSTEM User Manual:
"The inverter/charger has an adjustable charge rate. You can adjust the
Charge Rate Selection via the touchscreen in 5A increments. This allows
you to adjust the charge rate to match the shore power source and to meet
your system use requirements."

[Gerdog]

Thanks Mike that helps validate my thoughts around typically setting it at 10A when charging batteries when on shore power. So far so good w the Volta system but still learning where the major draws are when the inverter is on, the factory installed Starlink is one that I have unplugged until I will use. It doesn't seem to provide 3x the charge capacity as my AI 24 w 400 AmH of BB batteries but as you and others have pointed out it is little bit of hog when the inverter is on. NO propane or generator which is a good thing IMO.

[vanderwielen]

Attached is a letter from Airstream concerning the failure of the Volta system, the lack of continued warranty work by Volta. The good news is that Airstream is stepping up to provide warrant work. The bad news is that eventually, they will run out of part. Hopefully, the factory designs a retrofit using Victron equipment.

[SunnyApp]

Originally Posted by vanderwielen

Attached is a letter from Airstream concerning the failure of the Volta system, the lack of continued warranty work by Volta. The good news is that Airstream is stepping up to provide warrant work. The bad news is that eventually, they will run out of part. Hopefully, the factory designs a retrofit using Victron equipment.

Ours is back in shop (AC power monitor) .. don’t think it is a Volta issue for once, but I am sure we will find out soon.

For those of us with E1 under warranty, Airstream doesn’t have much choice. Hopefully they will either help rescue Volta from their own issues, or source a replacement and allow a retrofit / upgrade option. It isn’t like our vans are functional without the e1 working.

Will be watching this with interest.

2024 Interstate 24GT AWD w/Volta