Airstream CEO considers ditching the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

It amazes me how a lowly delivery and service van outfitted to meet the basic needs of cross-country travel has been transformed into a status symbol for the elite. Marketing hype is an amazing thing.

Agree, we do go for pitch and it is amazing. I remember a TV gotcha piece, allegedly news, on a local station years ago hammering a city official because they added several Ford Explorers to their fleet. The advertising hype firmly planted in the brains of viewers was used heavily in the story but the reality was the vehicles the city purchased were clearly plain Jane utility. The vehicle delivering my package is not like the one parked outside my house. A quick look at the dashboard of the delivery vehicle darting through my neighborhood and it's obvious these are stripped to the basics. The bright shiny silver thing in my driveway got all the lipstick and jewelry available (not to mention a fair chunk of my pocket change). For years Ford and Chevy marketed to the everyday guy and the other promised status. That's kind of the point I was suggesting. Did you notice the wink face at the end of my first comment post?

[DaveG]

"Did you notice the wink face at the end of my first comment post?"

Let me correct, was at the end of the second post. The first post should have had one also I guess so I will add a couple here to make up for the missing ones


Well, I'm ready to take my coffee back outside where I can admire my Mercedes Sprinter

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by DaveG

Agree, we do go for pitch and it is amazing. I remember a TV gotcha piece, allegedly news, on a local station years ago hammering a city official because they added several Ford Explorers to their fleet. The advertising hype firmly planted in the brains of viewers was used heavily in the story but the reality was the vehicles the city purchased were clearly plain Jane utility. The vehicle delivering my package is not like the one parked outside my house. A quick look at the dashboard of the delivery vehicle darting through my neighborhood and it's obvious these are stripped to the basics. The bright shiny silver thing in my driveway got all the lipstick and jewelry available (not to mention a fair chunk of my pocket change). For years Ford and Chevy marketed to the everyday guy and the other promised status. That's kind of the point I was suggesting. Did you notice the wink face at the end of my first comment post?

Your post causes the old saw about putting lipstick on a pig to come immediately to mind...

But you're right of course. We all have highly up-optioned delivery vans in our driveways. And a point... the marketing on these isn't done by Ford, Chevy, or Mercedes... they're marketed by Airstream as THEIR product, regardless of whether it's an Interstate or a B-190. Which brings me back to their current website blurb completely failing to mention the very successful Ford-chassis B-190 or the Chevy P-30 chassis class A coaches (both of which I've had) and neither of which was sold new at a price point the "everyday guy" could afford.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Your post causes the old saw about putting lipstick on a pig to come immediately to mind...

But you're right of course. We all have highly up-optioned delivery vans in our driveways. And a point... the marketing on these isn't done by Ford, Chevy, or Mercedes... they're marketed by Airstream as THEIR product, regardless of whether it's an Interstate or a B-190. Which brings me back to their current website blurb completely failing to mention the very successful Ford-chassis B-190 or the Chevy P-30 chassis class A coaches (both of which I've had) and neither of which was sold new at a price point the "everyday guy" could afford.

You don't mention the exclusive club of Airstream Avenues models on the Chevy Express chassis produced in low quantity between '2010 & '2013. I feel like a very lonely forum member with a rare '2012 Avenue Suite model. The interior layout is the same as the new Nineteen and stealthy enough that we've received no letters from our HOA in almost 4 years.


The power and reliability of the Chevy Express chassis is superb. But the fiberglass roof cap slopes inward and makes the interior feels more cramped compared to the newer boxy vans.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

You don't mention the exclusive club of Airstream Avenues models on the Chevy Express chassis produced in low quantity between '2010 & '2013. I feel like a very lonely forum member with a rare '2012 Avenue Suite model. The interior layout is the same as the new Nineteen and stealthy enough that we've received no letters from our HOA in almost 4 years.


The power and reliability of the Chevy Express chassis is superb. But the fiberglass roof cap slopes inward and makes the interior feels more cramped compared to the newer boxy vans.

You are absolutely correct, my friend! How thoughtless of me. How thoughtless of Airstream!!! Ha ha! Well done! Quite frankly, I'd consider an Avenue if they'd used the space they devoted to captain's chairs into useable cabinet, storage or something other than captain's chair seating and the couch across the back. If they'd done a rear dinette model with just the cockpit seats, I'd trade my T1N for one in a minute. The same seating arrangement is one of my beefs with, and why Roadtrek has never appealed to me. BUT, I don't have to haul four folks around either. And I'm too tall to sleep in an east-west couch bed.

On edit, there are ATM THREE Avenues for sale on RV Trader. Unbelievable!

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The most popular CLASS B in North America, the Winnebago Travato, is built on a ProMaster Platform. It appears that the ProMaster platform is the most popular gas. The only diesel is the Sprinter platform. In doing a minimal amount of research the Sprinter Van offers a better payload than the Ford or ProMaster platform.

The Promaster platform is popular because it's cheap. In every comparison I've read, it's rated as the least-pleasing driving experience of the 3 Euro vans. It doesn't help that they're uglier than homemade sin, either.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

The Promaster platform is popular because it's cheap. In every comparison I've read, it's rated as the least-pleasing driving experience of the 3 Euro vans. It doesn't help that they're uglier than homemade sin, either.

Hi

Why do I find it unlikely that AS would come out with the lowest cost / most ugly MH on the market? .... hmmmm......

Bob

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Nah, I hear they are in talks with Tesla to build it out on a cybertruck platform...

I get that you're making a joke, but they'd be better off looking to Rivian which already has a van on the road at low volumes... Amazon is their first customer, and I think they're targeting about a 150-mile range (but their pickup is supposed to be big range/performance, so they have a bigger battery pack designed.) It's a dorky looking thing, but still way less of a visual offense than the Promaster.

GM is coming out with an electric delivery box as well, that's looking very utilitarian but still easier on the eyes than the Promaster... I think they're looking at more like 250 miles of nominal range.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

You are absolutely correct, my friend! How thoughtless of me. How thoughtless of Airstream!!! Ha ha! Well done! Quite frankly, I'd consider an Avenue if they'd used the space they devoted to captain's chairs into useable cabinet, storage or something other than captain's chair seating and the couch across the back. If they'd done a rear dinette model with just the cockpit seats, I'd trade my T1N for one in a minute. The same seating arrangement is one of my beefs with, and why Roadtrek has never appealed to me. BUT, I don't have to haul four folks around either. And I'm too tall to sleep in an east-west couch bed.

On edit, there are ATM THREE Avenues for sale on RV Trader. Unbelievable!

As a matter of fact . . . the Suite model (like mine) was a late-run floorplan change with the same floor plan as new Airstream 19. See comparison with 19 on sprinter chassis on top and Suite on chevy chassis below:


I saw the Avenues on RV Trade and I agree "Unbelievable!". They are older and/or more miles than mine, yet asking $15K - $20K more than I paid almost 4 years ago! Crazy times.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

As a matter of fact . . . the Suite model (like mine) was a late-run floorplan change with the same floor plan as new Airstream 19. See comparison with 19 on sprinter chassis on top and Suite on chevy chassis below:


I saw the Avenues on RV Trade and I agree "Unbelievable!". They are older and/or more miles than mine, yet asking $15K - $20K more than I paid almost 4 years ago! Crazy times.

I would be all over that white 2013 Suite model with 58k on it if I could sleep on the bed. I really like those coaches. They are very B-Van-ish, and I like them... a LOT. That Chevy chassis is amazing. I just need something that's a north-south sleeper for the length.

[Daquenzer]

When I mentioned the Promaster it wasn’t that I was advocating it. I have never looked or driven one. I was just making an observation. I have in the past considered something like a Class B+. It would make traveling for my wife a bit easier since she doesn’t like driving long distances in the pickup and she could rest on a couch if necessary. But right now I prefer our 28’ AS due to the type of traveling we do. One of the reasons I was interested in this thread is to see what all of you think about the Mercedes platform and other platforms.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

I would be all over that white 2013 Suite model with 58k on it if I could sleep on the bed. I really like those coaches. They are very B-Van-ish, and I like them... a LOT. That Chevy chassis is amazing. I just need something that's a north-south sleeper for the length.

Is a 69"w X 76" length bed good enough for you? That is the rear bed size in my Suite.

I'm 6'2" and it was a requirement the bed be long enough for me to stretch out (even if just barely). Another requirement was an enclosed wet bath with a ceiling vent fan. Aisle height is about 6'1" but I can stand upright under the Maxxfan with shoes on due to the extra recess. All models have a 12v/110v Novacool 3.1cf compressor fridge with danfoss compressor.


The Avenue on RV Trader you refer to is incorrectly listed as a "Lounge" when, in fact, it is a "Suite" like mine. Turns out I know the former owner who sold it last year. We would converse on common problems or general issues since we owned the same model. He would know the history up to the time he sold it.

[jcl]

It seems to me the real question is how much longer Airstream will be able to source similar vans from any of the three manufacturers mentioned in this thread. They are all developing BEV versions of this product, and they are unlikely to plan for those vehicles to have the sort of range current Interstate customers expect. The manufacturers are moving away from diesel even more quickly than for gas versions, so gas versions may be available for longer. It just seems that the type of base van that this type of motorhome is built on now has a best before date.

Heavier trucks are likely to be available in diesel variants for much longer than trucks in this weight class. That means that a new Airstream Class A could be a risk mitigation strategy.

[Foiled Again]

Hmm. I parked beside a RAM SPRINTER RV today.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Is a 69"w X 76" length bed good enough for you? That is the rear bed size in my Suite.

I'm 6'2" and it was a requirement the bed be long enough for me to stretch out (even if just barely). Another requirement was an enclosed wet bath with a ceiling vent fan. Aisle height is about 6'1" but I can stand upright under the Maxxfan with shoes on due to the extra recess. All models have a 12v/110v Novacool 3.1cf compressor fridge with danfoss compressor.


The Avenue on RV Trader you refer to is incorrectly listed as a "Lounge" when, in fact, it is a "Suite" like mine. Turns out I know the former owner who sold it last year. We would converse on common problems or general issues since we owned the same model. He would know the history up to the time he sold it.

Thanks! I replied to your PM.

[Sailorguy]

Originally Posted by Sailorguy

AS has "Reserve RV Manufacturing Capacity" since they built their new Trailer Factory. I believe they have completed the move of their Class B manufacturing into the Old Trailer Plant across the street. This will permit AS to expand their Class B Model Range, on different chassis and target various Price Points.

Now for the "Elephant in the Room!" According to a reasonably good source, AS has surveyed their Top Dealers to ask what they think of AS introducing a new Class A Motor Home Model. The next big question is, How are they going to maintain quality when they are struggling now?

I assume AS's plan is to make several Class B and Class B+ MHs on different chassis! These models will be offered at difference price points and let AS be more competitive with other manufacturers.

Interesting, nobody commented on the possibility that Airstreams is thinking about making a Class A Motor Home.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Sailorguy

I assume AS's plan is to make several Class B and Class B+ MHs on different chassis! These models will be offered at difference price points and let AS be more competitive with other manufacturers.

Interesting, nobody commented on the possibility that Airstreams is thinking about making a Class A Motor Home.

Hi

Actually if you go back a ways, the Class A did come up..... Indeed this would open up a range of chassis suppliers that have not been part of the thread so far.

Given the popularity of the Class C format, one might think that the Atlas could get a "big brother". My vote would be for something on a Freightliner chassis ....

Lots of possibilities.

In terms of all these trucks going away... not going to happen any time soon. There is a giant chunk of country out here that simply can't be serviced with a 200 mile range vehicle ( 80 miles out / 80 miles back / 40 miles reserve) . They are fine in the urban centers, but fall down outside them.

Amazon is now ordering and running a *lot* box trucks to go with their vans. (more capacity / more range). Saw a bunch of them sitting in lots outside Elkhart a month ago.

What *has* been said is that significant money will not be going into developing *new* versions of these vehicles. What you see in the market by 2024 or so is what you will see being built 10 years later. I suspect even that part of it has more than a few footnotes .....

Bob

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi


Given the popularity of the Class C format, one might think that the Atlas could get a "big brother". My vote would be for something on a Freightliner chassis ....

Bob

Despite the advertising hype of a "Class B+" which has no definition in law, the Atlas IS a "Class C" as it's built on a cutaway chassis. It doesn't make any difference what the upfitter puts on a cutaway, if it's built on a cutaway it's a "Class C" albeit a small one.

"Class B+" implies that it has the NHTSC safety features inherent in a full-body van build, which it does not. They should more accurately be called "Class C-" as being a small Class C that is missing features... but of course, that wouldn't be a good marketing plan. It's really false advertising on the part of RV manufacturers. And people are buying it hook, line, and sinker.

I'd LOVE to see an Airstream "silver bullet" style Super-C moho on the Freightliner M2 chassis. I'd never be able to afford one, but having had a 325 for several years, and now a Born Free on the Kodiak Chassis... I'm convinced that the Super-C format on a medium duty truck chassis is the way to go.

[RachelZ3]

I wrote a long post on my Roadtrek forum explaining why I am buying an 2018 Interstate 19 based on my experience with the new 2020 (it was technically "new" when I bought it in February 2021, I was first owner)

The first point was about the "new" Mercedes Sprinter problems.

I'll post that below.

The Roadtrek used both the Sprinter and also the RAM base, and it seems to me the folks who have the RAM base are happier. That's just subjective from the forum.

I thought it was a good thing to have the Mercedes Sprinter, like a previous poster on this thread, I considered their past performance as being "bulletproof", like my 1972 Mercedes 350SL.

I'm old. Things change.

Regarding electric vehicles, I try to measure my words here... let me say it this way... after seeing California shut off utilities to its residents for perceived infractions, or power outages - as we had in metropolitan Philadelphia suburbs for several days this year, last year... due to weather and downed trees etc, what exactly would an EV owner do to charge their car? Go to the electric station and get a can of electricity? Electricity is now used to control us. Gas and diesel are FREEDOM and independence.

And combined with my experience with the new Mercedes sprinter MBUX system... I am very appreciative of the posts about the older Airstream Avenues.

YMMV.

Here's the part about the Sprinter from my Roadtrek post- I wonder if anyone would like to see the rest of the post comparing the Agile to the Interstate 19? Lemme know?



...Here's the deal... on my first trip I learned a lot, the hard way.
First most important thing I learned is that the new Mercedes "infotainment" system "MBUX" is an absolute nightmare, as is the new cab set up.
That is not unique to RT, and for those who don't have the Sprinter base, a total yawn.
But here's why the new Mercedes Sprinter base is no - go (for those considering a >2019 Sprinter base)
If you're not going to go full in with the apps and giving over to all that integrated stuff, (and maybe even if you do, I don't know because I didn't try) nothing is going to work. It sucks control out of the Garmin, causing it to go into "Garmin Express" which makes the Garmin go black (except the Garmin logo). Then the MBUX also goes black (except the Mercedes Logo). It has no aux in, only would connect via Bluetooth, so my devices that do not use wifi or bluetooth can not be connected. PERIOD. To use my Garmin (which I had to use because the MBUX crashed the first night I took it out, taking with it NAV and back up camera and lane sensors and the radio and would not turn OFF, and we found the "reset" and that also did not work, it was like bailing water on a sinking ship... and even when it worked it was quite stupid requiring me to look away from the road...
I bought the #@$( car but this MBUX means I am working for Mercedes, giving them all my data and getting nothing back.

Aside from the MBUX disaster, its ergonomically incredibly dangerous and stupid.
They moved the gearshift to the steering wheel column. Even after 2 weeks solid driving this and nothing else, I still keep pulling it out of DRIVE into Neutral because I think its the wipers when it starts to rain.
Why they did this boggles the mind because it didn't clear any useful space on the dash or console. There are two weird shaped cubby holes on the dash, they don't hold a phone or anything I can figure.
The seat adjustments are on the driver's door, but vertically placed, not only can I not find it without looking down, much worse, its next to my left knee, which explains why my seat starts moving unintentionally very often- my knee keeps pressing on the stupid buttons.
I know whereof I speak here, my father designed the CabUnder in the 70s and part of the process was to take it on the track to see how it worked ergonomically, I remember because he told me this is how they discovered that the door release had to be changed because it pressed on the driver's body. This is just complete stupidity.
Clear as mud it is.
And the part where it decides not to start because the key has to be in the special place the display tells you is in the Operators Manual, the poorly written miserrably organized verbose useless Operators Manual, (and it ISNT there...) . Look the basic thing is that the car GOES. And it doesn't. I actually did read all the manuals before I got in the RT, and even so, you shouldn't need to read the manual to drive something.
On that point, it doesn't even tell you how to start the vehicle. =:O

Its very much like how we have to buy computers today and they dont work unless you buy this and buy that and it does so much work FOR THE COMPANY THAT SOLD IT TO YOU and so much to STOP IT FROM WORKING because they have to get a penny for every thing you do and say and be and need and eat and OK OK I can't stand it.
How it drove me crazy when I had no Internet but I could see on my computer network that the MBUX had its own Internet connection, reporting whatever to whomever and not letting me use it and no one else had Internet for miles in a state park, and it would not SHUT OFF so it ran my battery dead and then I pushed the "sos" button and nothing happened.
Or how I called Mercedes Roadside assistance the first night and they told me to turn it off and I said that's the problem it wont shut off, and that agent didn't even know about the reset we found, instead she transferred me to "Customer Care" which of course is closed.

Also, a real Spare tire, one that is actually accessible. Its the single most important thing on any vehicle. Your tires. I know you know. Plus, I just saw one of the vloggers I follow in a B Class freaking out because she has a spare tire but its UNDER her RV and when she called AAA the operator could not get under the RV to get the spare out so he had to tow it to a shop.

So, that's about the new Sprinter base.
I resolved to get an RT with an older Sprinter base.
(and then I bought the 2018 I-19)

[Sailorguy]

Here is the deal! Airstream is going to have to fix their quality issues before they begin to expand their RV Model range. We were thing of getting a 2021 Caravel, but after seeing the quality and the price we passes and bought an Oliver Elite 2.