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Old 11-09-2020, 07:28 PM   #1
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2021 Lithium battery

We have had our AI 2021 now for 2 weeks and have taken it out on its maiden voyage. We’ve had it plugged into shore power. We noticed the the maximum charge is at 13.4 and never higher than that. I thought lithium batteries charge much higher than that. 13.4 does not leave much room to boon dock before the battery is depleted.
I would love to hear comments and understand lithium batteries better.
We had the flying cloud and are much more familiar with the lead acid type.
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:41 PM   #2
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2021 Lithium battery

My Victron batteries (Winston prismatic cells) take 14.2v bulk and 13.5 float. 14.0-14.4 bulk is pretty typical. 13.5-13.6 float is pretty typical.

Sounds like either:

1. Your batteries are charged and you’ve been floating them in which case 13.4-13.5 is correct

2. Your batteries have a lower SOC and your charger is not configured correctly (assuming it’s programmable).

What batteries and what charger do you have?
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
My Victron batteries (Winston prismatic cells) take 14.2v bulk and 13.5 float. 14.0-14.4 bulk is pretty typical. 13.5-13.6 float is pretty typical.

Sounds like either:

1. Your batteries are charged and you’ve been floating them in which case 13.4-13.5 is correct

2. Your batteries have a lower SOC and your charger is not configured correctly (assuming it’s programmable).

What batteries and what charger do you have?


The batteries are 2 Battle Born lithiums 100amp hour, 12 volt and the converter is WFCO-8930/50.
Is this what you are asking. Sorry, it does not have a converter name.
All factory installed by Airstream.
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:08 PM   #4
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2021 Lithium battery

That WFCO converter-charger is for lead acid batteries. It has a maximum output of 13.6v.

You need to buy / install a new lithium specific charger such as the progressive dynamics PD9100 series.

The Airstream Factory knows nothing about lithium. I’m sorry to hear that they left a stock $75 charger in place to care for $2,000 of batteries.

Here you go:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ttery-charger/
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
That WFCO converter-charger is for lead acid batteries. It has a maximum output of 13.6v.

You need to buy / install a new lithium specific charger such as the progressive dynamics PD9100 series.

The Airstream Factory knows nothing about lithium. I’m sorry to hear that they left a stock $75 charger in place to care for $2,000 of batteries.

Here you go:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ttery-charger/

Contact Battleborn. By all reports they have knowledgeable customer support. But the bottom line is you need a charger with lithium peofile charge setting.

I have 2x100AH Renogy lithium batteries that rest at 13.3 volts. When charging with the Renogy 3000W Inverter/Charger, I see 13.4 for quite a while in the charging process until the batteries start to near a full charge. Then in fairly rapid succession the voltage climbs to 13.5, 13.6, 13.7, etc until finally hitting 14.6 volts and the charging ends. I use the default lithium battery charge setting.
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Old 11-09-2020, 10:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
That WFCO converter-charger is for lead acid batteries. It has a maximum output of 13.6v.

You need to buy / install a new lithium specific charger such as the progressive dynamics PD9100 series.

The Airstream Factory knows nothing about lithium. I’m sorry to hear that they left a stock $75 charger in place to care for $2,000 of batteries.

Here you go:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ttery-charger/


I agree with wulfraat that you should install a Progressive Dynamics lithium converter.

I installed a 45 amp converter for my two BB lithium batteries because I wanted to be able to recharge it using my 1,000 watt Honda generator. If you have a larger generator you may be able to go with a 60, 70 or 80 amp converter that will recharge your batteries faster.

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Old 11-09-2020, 10:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
We have had our AI 2021 now for 2 weeks and have taken it out on its maiden voyage. We’ve had it plugged into shore power. We noticed the the maximum charge is at 13.4 and never higher than that. I thought lithium batteries charge much higher than that. 13.4 does not leave much room to boon dock before the battery is depleted.
I would love to hear comments and understand lithium batteries better.
We had the flying cloud and are much more familiar with the lead acid type.
same here with 2021 AI 24GL.

I found my Magnum setting not quite set up property per BattleBorn specs.

check your settings and modify them as below

Battery Type
Click on Setup > rotate dial to find "Battery Type" > should be preset to "Custom", then press dial to enter custom settings

Absorb = 14.4V
Float = 13.6V
Equalize = 14.5V


Charge Rate.


Go back to SETUP, then rotate dial to find this setting

I changed the "Charge Rate" to 100% , factory set the charge rate to only 80%.

Last, VAC Drop Out.


I remember mine was set to 100V, I lowered it to 90V.
If the camp site has unstable voltage or lower than 100V at times, the Magnum will shut down charging.


Try these settings and see if it helps.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2016 View Post
same here with 2021 AI 24GL.



I found my Magnum setting not quite set up property per BattleBorn specs.



check your settings and modify them as below



Battery Type

Click on Setup > rotate dial to find "Battery Type" > should be preset to "Custom", then press dial to enter custom settings



Absorb = 14.4V

Float = 13.6V

Equalize = 14.5V





Charge Rate.




Go back to SETUP, then rotate dial to find this setting



I changed the "Charge Rate" to 100% , factory set the charge rate to only 80%.



Last, VAC Drop Out.





I remember mine was set to 100V, I lowered it to 90V.

If the camp site has unstable voltage or lower than 100V at times, the Magnum will shut down charging.





Try these settings and see if it helps.


I am now very confused.
Mike2016, with the change that you have made, are your batteries now charging to 100%? Where would you see that is fully charged? On the Magnum monitor? I only check the house monitors and see the level of charge that is at 13.4 tops.
I have put a call in to BB and hopefully understand and make adjustments accordingly. I am assuming that Airstream installs the proper equipment needed for maximum functionality of the Interstate. It would be a disappointment otherwise given that it is supposedly a “luxury “ van.
Thank you all.
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Old 11-10-2020, 05:39 AM   #9
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Blissfull: There is a Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV (Lithium) upgrade to your existing WFCO converter. Call Progressive Dynamics -- talk to Dennis..... I just investigated this exact issue.
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Old 11-10-2020, 06:44 AM   #10
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If your dealer installed the lithium batteries as part of a package he should have reprogrammed or upgraded the converter. If you just dropped them in the the above is true.

If they were dealer installed have the dealer fix it.
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:27 AM   #11
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2021 Lithium battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDNC;
If your dealer installed the lithium batteries as part of a package he should have reprogrammed or upgraded the converter. If you just dropped them in the the above is true.

If they were dealer installed have the dealer fix it.


The WFCO converter he has is not programmable. It is fixed at 13.6v. Airstream left the original unit in place and only changed the batteries. He needs to replace it.
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:31 AM   #12
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2021 Lithium battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissful;
I am now very confused.
Mike2016, with the change that you have made, are your batteries now charging to 100%? Where would you see that is fully charged? On the Magnum monitor? I only check the house monitors and see the level of charge that is at 13.4 tops.
I have put a call in to BB and hopefully understand and make adjustments accordingly. I am assuming that Airstream installs the proper equipment needed for maximum functionality of the Interstate. It would be a disappointment otherwise given that it is supposedly a “luxury “ van.
Thank you all.


Don’t be confused. The other gentleman (mike2016) has a programmable $1500 magnum inverter-charger.

You have a $75 wfco converter that is fixed at 13.6 volts output. It cannot be adjusted or programmed. BB will tell you that you need to upgrade. The least expensive path is a ~$200 progressive dynamics 45A lithium charger. I provided the link above.

Do not buy a 60 or 80A charger, unless you also want to start replacing wiring in your AI.
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Old 11-10-2020, 08:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
The WFCO converter he has is not programmable. It is fixed at 13.6v. Airstream left the original unit in place and only changed the batteries. He needs to replace it.


I understand that it needs to be replaced, my point was if he paid the dealer for a lithium install, they should be the ones responsible to replace.
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Old 11-10-2020, 08:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
Don’t be confused. The other gentleman (mike2016) has a programmable $1500 magnum inverter-charger.

You have a $75 wfco converter that is fixed at 13.6 volts output. It cannot be adjusted or programmed. BB will tell you that you need to upgrade. The least expensive path is a ~$200 progressive dynamics 45A lithium charger. I provided the link above.

Do not buy a 60 or 80A charger, unless you also want to start replacing wiring in your AI.


Thank you. I called Airstream support and they say that the van may have left the factory with the wrong converter. It is appalling that Airstream in Ohio lacks in quality control. I, not having the electrical background am left dumbfounded by all of this. What else is wrong with this $200,000 equipment. I will be calling the local dealer to rectify this.
By the way, the van is now totally dead!
Are there other 2021 owners experiencing this?
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
That WFCO converter-charger is for lead acid batteries. It has a maximum output of 13.6v.

You need to buy / install a new lithium specific charger such as the progressive dynamics PD9100 series.

The Airstream Factory knows nothing about lithium. I’m sorry to hear that they left a stock $75 charger in place to care for $2,000 of batteries.

Here you go:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...ttery-charger/

Need? really?

From their website....
"As mentioned above in the video, the battery prefers to bulk charge at 14.4 volts and float at 13.6 volts. Most standard chargers can handle these settings.

Some chargers are made for lithium, and will, in most cases, charge faster than a standard charger."

Our BB's charged fine for 3mos with a IOTA IQ4 DLS 55a before getting the Boondocker.

Bob
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
We have had our AI 2021 now for 2 weeks and have taken it out on its maiden voyage. We’ve had it plugged into shore power. We noticed the the maximum charge is at 13.4 and never higher than that. I thought lithium batteries charge much higher than that. 13.4 does not leave much room to boon dock before the battery is depleted.
I would love to hear comments and understand lithium batteries better.
We had the flying cloud and are much more familiar with the lead acid type.
This discussion and recommendations are bewildering. You have a new coach that cost north of $150,000 and now people are recommending changes.

Contact Airstream and find out how charging works with their new lithium batteries. Is this another case of Airstreams poor electrical engineering?
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:21 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
Thank you. I called Airstream support and they say that the van may have left the factory with the wrong converter. It is appalling that Airstream in Ohio lacks in quality control. I, not having the electrical background am left dumbfounded by all of this. What else is wrong with this $200,000 equipment. I will be calling the local dealer to rectify this.
By the way, the van is now totally dead!
Are there other 2021 owners experiencing this?


Another ignorant question. Are both converter and inverter the same unit or are they 2 separate units. BB is referring to it as a converter but Airstream is referring to it as an inverter. Which one is to be changed?
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
Another ignorant question. Are both converter and inverter the same unit or are they 2 separate units. BB is referring to it as a converter but Airstream is referring to it as an inverter. Which one is to be changed?


The converter - it takes regular 120v in and then converts it to 12v and charges t he batteries.

The inverter (I’m pretty sure is separate) takes 12v and turns it into 120. Note they can be the same unit but pretty sure your are separate.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissful;
Another ignorant question. Are both converter and inverter the same unit or are they 2 separate units. BB is referring to it as a converter but Airstream is referring to it as an inverter. Which one is to be changed?
The Converter needs to be changed. Your dealer will address this if this was an issue from the factory. You probably have one of the first AIs with BB lithium batteries delivered from the factory. Airstream are still learning about lithium having put lead acid batteries in their coaches for the last 85 or so years.
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Old 11-10-2020, 10:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
The Converter needs to be changed. Your dealer will address this if this was an issue from the factory. You probably have one of the first AIs with BB lithium batteries delivered from the factory. Airstream are still learning about lithium having put lead acid batteries in their coaches for the last 85 or so years.
They may up-grade the converter but I doubt that it will be at no charge.
After all JC routinely installed the 'battery burner' P-lax for years before going to a multi-stage unit.

BTW...what else does a 'lithium' charger do besides charge faster at a higher rate? Our BB's have rested at the same full charge voltage,(13.3,13.8), no matter what charged them.
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