2020 Atlas towing capacity - 7500lbs

[jasperkins]

I think I found a typo in the literature for Airstream Atlas, where it states the max towing capacity is 5000 pounds.

I am not sure which Sprinter Cab chassis Airstream uses - the 3500 or 4500. Does anyone know?

However it is the cab chassis, and not the Van build. So another little plus, for the Atlas, is that the Mercedes Sprinter chassis can pull a double axle 25' Airstream trailer (up to 7500 lbs), and still be in "specs". Now I am not stating you should- but towing a 2 axle trailer vs a single axle trailer has its pros.

from MB:
The Sprinter Cab Chassis can tow a maximum of 7,500 pounds with both the 144-inch and 170-inch wheelbase configuration. Additionally, when the Cab Chassis is properly equipped, it has a payload capacity of 6,400 pounds.

[jcl]

You need to consider the weight that was added to the bare cab/chassis to turn it into an Atlas.

[jasperkins]

Originally Posted by jcl

You need to consider the weight that was added to the bare cab/chassis to turn it into an Atlas.

I agree. Via a google search, it looks like Airstream went with the Sprinter 3500 Cab Chassis (GVWR of 11,030) vs the 4500 (GVWR 12,125). I wonder why?

https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/comm...ns/cab-chassis

Capacity - Sprinter 3500XD Cab
Max Available GVWR: 11,030 lbs
Base Curb Weight: 4,674 lbs
Max Payload: 6,356 lbs
Max Available GCWR: 15,250 lbs
Max Towing: 7,500 lbs

Capacity - Sprinter 4500 Cab
Max Available GVWR: 12,125 lbs
Base Curb Weight: 4,696 lbs
Max Payload: 7,430 lbs
Max Available GCWR: 15,250 lbs
Max Towing: 7,500 lbs

[Protagonist]

Don't forget, you're still limited by the Gross Combined Weight Rating of 15,250 pounds (same rating for both the 3500 and the 4500 chassis). The Airstream Atlas has a dry weight (excluding the weight of fuel, propane, water, provisions, portable gear, clothing, and people) of 10045 pounds. By the time you've loaded your Atlas up for a trip, you've added 187 pounds of diesel fuel, about 60 pounds of propane, 300 pounds of people (assuming there are only two of you), and 216 pounds of fresh water, so you've only got 222 pounds of cargo capacity left for clothing, food, bottled beverages, lawn chairs, tools, and whatever else you routinely bring with you. Hopefully you always travel with empty waste tanks!

So you might as well figure that your Atlas's maximum towing capacity is really only (15250-11030=) 4220 pounds before you bump up against your GCWR.

On edit: Last minute very important thought, since tongue weight is part of GVWR for the towing vehicle, you would have ZERO towing capacity, because there's no reserve weight capacity for the trailer tongue weight— unless the Atlas is pretty much empty of everything but diesel fuel and a driver! You might be able to flat-tow a toad because the tongue weight is only half the weight of the towbar. But towing an actual trailer in an Atlas loaded for camping, not happening.

[jasperkins]

@Protagonist- thanks for the math. I didnt take that into consideration- blinded by the space in the Atlas :-) This is where the tradeoff with the Sprinter Van Interstate comes into play.

[wulfraat]

Too much combined weight for that 6 cylinder diesel and transmission in my opinion, regardless if the chassis and suspension can handle it.

That MB bluetec runs hot as it is from my understanding, let alone maxing it out just trying to move down the road with 15k+ lbs train weight [emoji4]

I looked at getting a 3500 Sprinter van /shell to pull my 30’ @8,500lbs wet but it’s just too much combined weight for the little MB engine. (I say little when compared to larger duramax/Cummins/powerstroke found in a 250/2500+ pickup).

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by jasperkins

I think I found a typo in the literature for Airstream Atlas, where it states the max towing capacity is 5000 pounds.
. . .

Could it be that "5,000" is not a typo, and that everything else is simply over-thinking things?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Could it be that "5,000" is not a typo, and that everything else is simply over-thinking things?

Yes and no. Even though the hitch receiver is rated for 7500 pounds, all EXT-frame Sprinters (not just Interstates or Atlases) actually have a theoretical towing capacity of just 5000 pounds, due to the increased distance (and moment arm) from the hitch to the rear axle compared to non-EXT-frame Sprinters. The non-EXT-frame Sprinters (like my 2012 Interstate) have a theoretical towing capacity of 7500 pounds. That's straight out of my Sprinter Owner's Manual.

But the rest isn't just over-thinking things, either. Because theory assumes ideal conditions, and an Interstate or Atlas is hardly ideal in terms of weight. Like the saying goes, "In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

In actual practice, as my previous post showed, the loaded-for-camping Atlas is going to be so close to the GVWR already that one can't hitch up a trailer that has any tongue weight at all without being overweight, regardless of GCWR.

[Brentsdeal]

Originally Posted by jasperkins

I think I found a typo in the literature for Airstream Atlas, where it states the max towing capacity is 5000 pounds.

I am not sure which Sprinter Cab chassis Airstream uses - the 3500 or 4500. Does anyone know?

However it is the cab chassis, and not the Van build. So another little plus, for the Atlas, is that the Mercedes Sprinter chassis can pull a double axle 25' Airstream trailer (up to 7500 lbs), and still be in "specs". Now I am not stating you should- but towing a 2 axle trailer vs a single axle trailer has its pros.

from MB:
The Sprinter Cab Chassis can tow a maximum of 7,500 pounds with both the 144-inch and 170-inch wheelbase configuration. Additionally, when the Cab Chassis is properly equipped, it has a payload capacity of 6,400 pounds.

The tranny is the weak leak on the sprinter van, not up to much towing, I’m on my third tranny in my first 150000 miles!! Not built to tow much!
I was fortunate two were replaced under a Ford extended warranty
Yes my best bet was from Ford for the extended warranty

[OTRA15]

If a manufacturer states a weight limit, then that is the weight limit.

Period!

Airstream is the mfg. of the Atlas, therefore . . .

The rest is over-thinking, as suggested earlier IMO.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

If a manufacturer states a weight limit, then that is the weight limit.

Period!

A weight limit is a not-to-exceed value. But not-to-exceed doesn't necessarily mean that one can actually achieve that weight limit. And you're right about that 7500-pound towing limit. I can absolutely guarantee that no one will be towing more than 7500 pounds with an Atlas, because no one will even be towing anywhere close to 7500 pounds to begin with!

Please don't post misleading information that could get someone hurt, killed, or involved in a terrible-but-preventable accident if they take your statement at face value. Because that's exactly what would happen if someone actually tried to tow a 7500-pound trailer with an Atlas based on your statement.

Regardless of Airstream's published towing weight limit for the Atlas, the math just doesn't add up to a real 7500-pound towing capacity, considering the equally-official dry weight (10045 pounds according to Airstream), GVWR (11030 pounds according to Mercedes Benz), and GCWR (15250 pounds, also according to Mercedes Benz). If you can somehow squeeze 7500 pounds actual towing capacity out of a 15250-pound gross combined weight and a 10045-pound dry weight, I would dearly love to see that math!

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Yes and no. Even though the hitch receiver is rated for 7500 pounds, all EXT-frame Sprinters (not just Interstates or Atlases) actually have a theoretical towing capacity of just 5000 pounds, due to the increased distance (and moment arm) from the hitch to the rear axle compared to non-EXT-frame Sprinters. The non-EXT-frame Sprinters (like my 2012 Interstate) have a theoretical towing capacity of 7500 pounds. That's straight out of my Sprinter Owner's Manual.

But the rest isn't just over-thinking things, either. Because theory assumes ideal conditions, and an Interstate or Atlas is hardly ideal in terms of weight. Like the saying goes, "In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

In actual practice, as my previous post showed, the loaded-for-camping Atlas is going to be so close to the GVWR already that one can't hitch up a trailer that has any tongue weight at all without being overweight, regardless of GCWR.

You are quite correct on the Atlas reaching its GCWR relatively easily. We are on our maiden voyage with a 2020 Atlas from Iowa now sitting in a RV resort near San Antonio. I was fully loaded for the trip plus a full fuel tank and water tank(drained to 50% after I weighed it) and grossed 11,150 pounds (I am 6ft 1 in at 220lbs and wife 5 ft 7 in and 150lbs). I was hoping to add a couple of e-assist bikes on a hitch bike carrier later this summer for a trip to Maine but then I would be a bit over weight. I am not sure whether 100-200 lbs over GCWR is a problem.

[Pahaska]

Precisely why I tow a Fiesta now and formerly a Smart. Lightest automatics that tow 4-down with no major modifications.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Melchior

I am not sure whether 100-200 lbs over GCWR is a problem.

There IS a certain factor of safety inherent in the weight limits. But only the automotive engineers who designed the vehicles know what that factor of safety is. And only they know which component is most likely to fail first if one exceeds the weight limit. But if one had to guess, the component to fail first would probably be the brakes. And brake failure is not something I would choose to risk.

Sure, one could go over the published weight limits by a little bit, and probably be fine. But I couldn't possibly recommend doing that. Anyone who tries has to do it at their own risk. Literally. Because if it becomes known that your vehicle is overweight and you're in a traffic accident, your insurance company will throw you to the wolves no matter who is really at fault in the accident.

You can save some weight by leaving the spare tire (and the jack, for that matter) at home, if you're willing to call roadside assistance for a tow when you have a flat tire. The mounted spare weighs about 80 pounds all by itself, if memory serves, and that would certainly offset much of the weight of the e-bikes. Plus, I'm not exactly sure that the spare, mounted on its OEM steel rim, will even work with the lug nuts that are designed for the thicker Alcoa aluminum rims that are on the rest of the tires. A spare isn't any good if you can't tighten the lug nuts when you put it on!* In the eight years I've owned my Interstate, I've never had a flat and never needed to use the spare. Personally, if I had someplace to store my spare in my second-floor apartment, I'd take it off the van and leave it home all the time, in favor of carrying a few cans of "fix-a-flat" and an air compressor.

And for an extreme weight-saving measure, if you're not planning to do any boondocking or wallydocking, you might consider removing the generator. That would certainly save you a lot of weight right there.

(*If anyone has experience using the spare to replace a flat on their NCV3 Interstate or Atlas, I really would like to know if the spare can be mounted in any position other than replacing an inside dual rear tire— because that is the only position I think it would fit.)

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

There IS a certain factor of safety inherent in the weight limits. But only the automotive engineers who designed the vehicles know what that factor of safety is. And only they know which component is most likely to fail first if one exceeds the weight limit. But if one had to guess, the component to fail first would probably be the brakes. And brake failure is not something I would choose to risk.

Most manufacturers specify a maximum trailer weight before trailer brakes are required. My last SUV it was 1600 lbs, from memory. So, the tow vehicle brakes were designed to handle an additional 1600 lbs in terms of stopping ability, without ever needing to plan on using up any safety factors.

GVWR is primarily designed for tax purposes, operator licensing, and so on.

Axle (and tire) weight ratings are engineering design limits, and should be respected.

Tow ratings (for a braked trailer) have so many factors involved, from hitch receiver tongue weight limits to duty cycles to marketing considerations, that they can have little connection to engineering design limits. They may, but it isn’t like the manufacturer optimized the tow vehicle design such that the limits are all reached simultaneously for all aspects. What we do know is that the manufacturer hasn’t tested the combination, but that isn’t the same as saying it isn’t safe to do it.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by jcl

Axle (and tire) weight ratings are engineering design limits, and should be respected.

Interestingly, the Sprinter 3500 front axle weight rating of 4410 pounds, plus the rear axle weight rating of 7720 pounds adds up to 12,130 pounds, not the GVWR of 11030 pounds.

This might seem counter-intuitive, until you consider that loads can't necessarily be precisely distributed. It's possible to overload the rear axle without overloading the front axle, or vice versa. So placing a gross weight limit of 11030 reduces the chance of either axle being overloaded by an incorrect front/rear weight distribution when loaded to the full GVWR, as would be the case if the gross vehicle weight rating was equal to the sum of the gross axle weight ratings.

Side note, another limiting factor in vehicle weight, axle weights, and trailer weights is the alphabet soup of Sprinter electronic assist programs (ADR, ABS, ASR, BAS, EBD, ESP, etc), all of which are programmed to operate within a specific range of weights and/or weight distributions. Overloading the vehicle could cause any of these systems to quit working until the condition is removed, with a distinct reduction in handling.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Brentsdeal

The tranny is the weak leak on the sprinter van, not up to much towing, I’m on my third tranny in my first 150000 miles!! Not built to tow much!
I was fortunate two were replaced under a Ford extended warranty
Yes my best bet was from Ford for the extended warranty

How do you know the transmission is the weak link on a Sprinter? You are obviously driving a Ford. Which Ford? Either way it has nothing to do with a Sprinter.

[Brentsdeal]

I’m on my third sprinter mercedes transmission, as I stated it’s a good thing I purchased a extended warranty from Ford which covered the cost, towing is not a strong point for the sprinter. Ford markets extended warranties for non Ford brands, the cost was a third the price Mercedes was quoting

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Brentsdeal

I’m on my third sprinter mercedes transmission, as I stated it’s a good thing I purchased a extended warranty from Ford which covered the cost, towing is not a strong point for the sprinter. Ford markets extended warranties for non Ford brands, the cost was a third the price Mercedes was quoting

OK - you have a Sprinter. Good to know one can buy an extended warranty from Ford. Which Sprinter model do you have? Your profile just says 2008 Sprinter. Is it a Dodge or Freightliner? Is it a 2500 or 3500? What length and wheel base? I assume you are towing your 25' FB with your Sprinter. Is your GCWR within the Sprinter's limit? The dry weight of a 25' FB is over 5,000 lbs. you could easily be running an overloaded rig, very relevant to this thread.

We would all like to know the configuration and weight of your rig that has had three transmission failures. It would be very educational for all of us Sprinter drivers, especially those who tow with their Interstates.

Thanks,

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

We would all like to know the configuration and weight of your rig that has had three transmission failures. It would be very educational for all of us Sprinter drivers, especially those who tow with their Interstates.

Seconded! Especially since my previous toad, a 2013 Honda Fit (GVWR 3300 pounds) was totaled last month by a high school kid who blew through a stop sign without even slowing down and T-boned the Fit. After driving the Honda 88000 miles and towing it almost 60000 miles, I'm going to miss it. It gave good service while it lasted and would have served for several more years under other circumstances.

My new toad is a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (GVWR 5500 pounds, curb weight as toad-equipped 4500 pounds). Not the ideal choice of a toad for such a small motorhome, but there were other reasons for getting the Jeep besides just towing it, and it was the best compromise available between cost, towability, and those other factors when I bought it. Plus, my memory told me that someone else here on the Forums tows a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with an Interstate, but I couldn't remember who. So I knew it could be done.

My 2012 non-EXT Interstate has a curb weight (including diesel but not including propane, people, water, food, tools, and supplies) of just under 8900 pounds. So I could never reach the full rated towing capacity of 7500 pounds without going over the GCWR of 15250 pounds. Since I routinely travel solo, just me and my two cats, and I don't need to bring a lot of stuff along inside the Interstate, I am still under the Interstate's GVWR by a comfortable margin. But with the Jeep in tow, I will be coming a lot closer to the Interstate's GCWR on every trip where I bring the Jeep.

So if I'm looking at possible transmission damage in the future based on my choice of toads, I'd rather know now than find out later.